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Old September 25th, 2014, 06:02 AM   #8521
GZ-zhang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Indeed the shortage of stations is a problem with most CRH lines. Although not quite all.

Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway runs D trains. And on the 116 km between Guangzhou South and Zhuhai, there are 15 intermediate stations, starting with Bijiang Station 5 km from Guangzhou South (but in Foshan) and ending with Qianshan Station, in Zhuhai 3 km from Zhuhai Station. The longest stretches without a station are 12 km sections between Dongsheng and Zhongshan North, and Tangjiawan and Mingzhu.

For comparison, the neighbouring Shenzhen-Xiamen high speed railway also runs D trains, but it has just 3 intermediate stations in the 123 km stretch between Longhua and Houmen Stations. No stations on the 36 km section between Longhua and Pingshan stations in Shenzhen, whereas the 37 km section of Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway has 5 intermediate stations in Foshan on the 37 km section between Guangzhou South and Nantou stations.
Sure, but it should be mentioned that those are two totally different types of railway.

The Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway is intended to be part of the PRD intercity rail network, which is designed to function as a commuter railway system, as well as a regional express network.

This line (along with the other 8 PRD intercity lines under construction and even more planned) will eventually be operated as a separate system to the national long-distance network, by a local operating company (joint venture between MOR and Guangdong government). The lines will not carry long-distance trains and will be operated by their own dedicated rolling stock designed for urban rail (so far, only CRH6 has been ordered). The PRD intercity network is planning its own ticketing system also, similar to an urban metro.

The current mode of operation with CRH1 "D trains" as part of the national network, directly by MOR is likely to be temporary because the PRD intercity rail control centre and HQ is not yet completed, and the rolling stock they have ordered (CRH6 units) have not yet been delivered.

Some PRD intercity lines are 200 km/h (so could be considered as HSR), while others are going to be 160 km/h or 140 km/h. The intercity lines will feed passengers into the national HSR hubs from smaller cities/suburbs and passengers will change trains for long-distance travel.

The Shenzhen-Xiamen line is a true national HSR line, which is designed for long-distance trains only. Therefore, the station spacing is much greater.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 10:19 AM   #8522
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Yes. The 857km HSR will cover major cities such as Guiyang, Duyun, Guilin, Hezhou, zhaoqing, Foshan, Guangzhou. It will open on Dec 30 2014.
Turns out Changsha-Nanning high speed railway finally gets through Guilin, too!
Train G421 trains direct Beijing-Nanning, taking 13:32 for the trip, so does G529 in 13:38. G433 travels Wuhan-Nanning in 7:53 G431 in 8:04, G423 Shijiazhuang-Nanning in 12:20.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 07:50 PM   #8523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack
Indeed the shortage of stations is a problem with most CRH lines. Although not quite all.

Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway runs D trains. And on the 116 km between Guangzhou South and Zhuhai, there are 15 intermediate stations, starting with Bijiang Station 5 km from Guangzhou South (but in Foshan) and ending with Qianshan Station, in Zhuhai 3 km from Zhuhai Station. The longest stretches without a station are 12 km sections between Dongsheng and Zhongshan North, and Tangjiawan and Mingzhu.

For comparison, the neighbouring Shenzhen-Xiamen high speed railway also runs D trains, but it has just 3 intermediate stations in the 123 km stretch between Longhua and Houmen Stations. No stations on the 36 km section between Longhua and Pingshan stations in Shenzhen, whereas the 37 km section of Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway has 5 intermediate stations in Foshan on the 37 km section between Guangzhou South and Nantou stations.
Stations are spaced apart due to the speeds involved and the curve radius.

Why are airports so far apart? Because it makes no sense to have them close together, you lose time savings.

Trains that travel at 250kph or greater are the same.

240kph is 4kms a minute, one per 15 seconds. It takes several kms to stop, and several to accelerate to top velocity. Placing stations too close would eliminate the value of HSR, which is why subway lines travel at slower velocities.

At 360kph the issue becomes even worse, 6kms per minute one every 10 seconds, 420kph one per 8m34s. 30km spacing is about the closest you can place stations on such lines.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 07:53 PM   #8524
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
HSR is not for that segment of the population. Clearly HSR is not and will never be as cheap as local trains and/or long distance buses. In China or in any other country.
I don't think you understand that such an attitude does not go over well in China, at all. Everyone wants it to not be expensive so that they can use it - they want what they want.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 07:57 PM   #8525
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Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
There is a lot of price gouging by bus companies at peak times.
By the way, what does companies mean? Are there are more than one company running the railways there?
Supply and demand - there is no way around it.

Companies means just that - multiple regional rail companies under a national umbrella.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 08:28 PM   #8526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Placing stations too close would eliminate the value of HSR, which is why subway lines travel at slower velocities.

At 360kph the issue becomes even worse, 6kms per minute one every 10 seconds, 420kph one per 8m34s. 30km spacing is about the closest you can place stations on such lines.
On Shanghai-Nanjing high speed railway, I counted 28 intermediate stations from Shanghai West to Xianlin - the distance from Shanghai to Nanjing being 301 km. And Shanghai-Nanjing high speed railway, unlike Shanghai-Beijing one, has been operated at 350 km/h.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #8527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I don't think you understand that such an attitude does not go over well in China, at all. Everyone wants it to not be expensive so that they can use it - they want what they want.
Oh, I understand that well enough but I'm not a Chinese government official who needs to say politically correct things. I can afford to say here things I believe to be true
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Old September 25th, 2014, 09:08 PM   #8528
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Of course HSR could be made arbitrarily cheap if government subsidises fares, but is that really an efficient use of public funds? In my opinion that is not the case.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #8529
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Yes. The 857km HSR will cover major cities such as Guiyang, Duyun, Guilin, Hezhou, zhaoqing, Foshan, Guangzhou. It will open on Dec 30 2014.
The whole line - both Guangzhou-Guilin and Guilin-Guiyang section are on schedule to open this year? Will it be the first HSR to Guiyang?
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Old September 25th, 2014, 11:26 PM   #8530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
I don't think you understand that such an attitude does not go over well in China, at all. Everyone wants it to not be expensive so that they can use it - they want what they want.
This is not only applicable to China. Same everywhere: everyone wants cheaper and better.

The only way to go for the CRH is to introduce a more flexible ticketing system which functions elsewhere and is similar to airline pricing policies. Of course perhaps with some exceptions for the Chinese New year and other festivals but overall CRH is NOT and should NOT be a cheap service for an 'ordinary person' for everyday travel. This is the reality that everyone in China will have to accept regardless of what they want.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 11:40 PM   #8531
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Originally Posted by GZ-zhang View Post
S
The Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway is intended to be part of the PRD intercity rail network, which is designed to function as a commuter railway system, as well as a regional express network.

This line (along with the other 8 PRD intercity lines under construction and even more planned)
What are these 8, and which of them is the next to open for service?
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Old September 26th, 2014, 08:13 AM   #8532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The whole line - both Guangzhou-Guilin and Guilin-Guiyang section are on schedule to open this year? Will it be the first HSR to Guiyang?
Yes that's the current plan.

It will be the first HSR reaching Guiyang.

Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR

(xinhua)
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Old September 26th, 2014, 09:53 AM   #8533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Yes that's the current plan.

It will be the first HSR reaching Guiyang.
When shall Changsha-Guiyang high speed railway open?
Before it does, what shall be the trip time Guiling-Guiyang? And what shall be the trip time Beijing-Changsha-Guilin-Guiyang this year?
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Old September 26th, 2014, 01:47 PM   #8534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What are these 8, and which of them is the next to open for service?
1. Guangfozhao line (Guangzhou - Foshan - Zhaoqing)
2. Guanhui line (Dongguan Wanghung - Huizhou)
3. Guangqing line (Guangzhou - Qingyuan)
4. Suiguanshen line (Guangzhou North - Dongguan - Shenzhen Airport)
5. Foguan line (Foshan - Dongguan Wanghung)
6. Guangfo circle line (Guangzhou/Foshan loop)
7. Zhongnanhu line (Zhongshan - Nansha - Humen)
8. Zhuhai Airport line (Zhuhai - Zhuhai Airport)

The first of these to open will be the main section (Foshan - Zhaoqing) of the Guangfozhao line on 30th June, 2015. However, Foshan West Station will open later and the line can only serve Guangzhou Railway Station after a large-scale expansion is carried out (from 2016 to 2019). Therefore, trains will temporarily terminate at Guangzhou South instead, using the Nanning-Guangzhou HSR line between Foshan and Guangzhou South.
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Old September 26th, 2014, 02:28 PM   #8535
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Therefore, trains will temporarily terminate at Guangzhou South instead, using the Nanning-Guangzhou HSR line between Foshan and Guangzhou South.
Nanning-Wuzhou high speed railway has been opened, but Wuzhou-Guangzhou high speed railway has not.
Is it known when Wuzhou-Guangzhou high speed railway shall open for scheduled service?
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Old September 26th, 2014, 02:47 PM   #8536
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Yes, it is planned to open on 30th December, the same day as the Guiyang - Guangzhou HSR line. Both lines are parallel between Foshan and Guangzhou South and will be completed together. Nanning East station should be opened on the same day.
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Old September 26th, 2014, 03:17 PM   #8537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GZ-zhang View Post
will be operated by their own dedicated rolling stock designed for urban rail (so far, only CRH6 has been ordered). The PRD intercity network is planning its own ticketing system also, similar to an urban metro.

The current mode of operation with CRH1 "D trains" as part of the national network, directly by MOR is likely to be temporary because the PRD intercity rail control centre and HQ is not yet completed, and the rolling stock they have ordered (CRH6 units) have not yet been delivered.
Is it known when first CRH6 trains are due for delivery?
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Old September 26th, 2014, 03:41 PM   #8538
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Is it known when first CRH6 trains are due for delivery?
Unfortunately, there is no firm delivery date for the first production models of CRH6. The latest estimate is simply some time in 2015. A test model was delivered last year but the manufacturer has repeatedly postponed delivery of the production models, which were originally expected 2 years ago!
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Old September 26th, 2014, 11:31 PM   #8539
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Originally Posted by GZ-zhang View Post
The current mode of operation with CRH1 "D trains" as part of the national network, directly by MOR is likely to be temporary because the PRD intercity rail control centre and HQ is not yet completed, and the rolling stock they have ordered (CRH6 units) have not yet been delivered.
Chengdu-Daye and Chengdu-Pengzhou high speed railways also run D trains. Wuhan-Xianning, Wuhan-Huangshi, Wuhan-Huanggang and Shanghai-Jinshanwei high speed railways run C trains. What is different about Chengdu high speed railway that it has D not C trains, and shall C trains be introduced on Guangzhou-Zhuhai high speed railway?
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Old September 27th, 2014, 10:54 AM   #8540
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A question:
If the maximum speed allowed on trains is 300 km / h, why are photos of the display to 305/307 km / h ?.
Delays ?.

How is it possible that the G83 scroll Shijiazhuang-Zhengzhou in 81 minutes if there is supposed to 383 km and the average is 284 km/h?.
In the Spanish LAV1 (Madrid-Sevilla), there is a commitment to punctuality returns 100% cash of the total ticket price for more than 5 minutes late. The cause must be attributable to Renfe (operator) or ADIF (infrastructure manager), no refund will be made ​​in case of strikes or extreme weather conditions. In other lines 50% (+15 minutes) or 100% (+30 minutes) is returned.
So the trains must have a timeframe. The current best average Madrid-Sevilla is 202 km / h without stopping, though became of 209 between 1994 and 2000. In the 421 km line there only 9 km to 300, 7-290, 180-270, 183 250 and 64 to 240/200. The best Spanish lines are average for the 248 km / h Madrid-Barcelona.

A greeting, and thanks in advance
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