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Old December 26th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #8881
Pansori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post

After all this time on the forum I'm still royally confused about the speed of D trains...200 or 250km/h?

All G trains have an official limit of 300km/h so that's easier to remember.
D trains most commonly go at 200km/h. Some D trains go at 160km/h (e.g. Shenzhen-Guangzhou on Guangshen Railway). However on 350km/h lines (e.g. Ningbo-Hangzhou or Hangzhou-Shanghai) D trains may go at 250km/h.

So technically the limit is 250km/h and they do go at this speed on some lines but usually they stick to 200km/h.

Or so I witnessed during my travels.

The setting of speed limits for D trains is indeed a bit of a mystery to me though.

Take the Coastal HSR (Shenzhen-Ningbo-Hangzhou) for example. The Shenzhen-Ningbo stretch is designed for 250km/h commercial operation (or so says the data on Wikipedia). But the D train I was taking peaked at 204km/h.

However between Ningbo and Hangzhou (which is designed for 350km/h) it sped up to 250km/h.

Why wouldn't it go 250km/h all the way from Shenzhen to Hangzhou? Does this have to do with technical specs or is purely a matter of policy? If it's the latter why does it go at 250km/h specifically on the 350km/h stretch and not on any part of the 250km/h stretch? In theory it shouldn't make much difference where to go at 250km/h because the entire line is suitable for this speed and not just the 350km/h stretch.

Last edited by Pansori; December 26th, 2014 at 09:04 PM.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #8882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Is commercial service going to be 250km/h or 200km/h?
250km/h, this line reflects the new operational speed after the speed reduction of 2011, so both it's designed and operational speed are 250km/h. The fastest train IIRC takes a little over four hours to cover the ~850km distance, therefore it confirms the 250km/h operating speed.
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Old December 26th, 2014, 11:02 PM   #8883
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There is now a train Shanghai-Nanning. G1501, travel time 11:34. Departs 10:06, arrives 21:40. Price second class 767 yuan 5 jiao, first class 1178 yuan 5 jiao, business class 2378 yuan.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:24 AM   #8884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
250km/h, this line reflects the new operational speed after the speed reduction of 2011, so both it's designed and operational speed are 250km/h. The fastest train IIRC takes a little over four hours to cover the ~850km distance, therefore it confirms the 250km/h operating speed.
No,Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR is a passenger dedicated line uses ballastless tracks,with a designed speed of 300km/h.And the operational speed is 250km/h,so the D trains on this line are faster than many D trains on other lines,such as Shenzhen-Xiamen,Nanning-Guangzhou.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 08:12 AM   #8885
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Lanzhou-Urumqi HSR

1.a high speed train runs on the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau.

2.

---------
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Old December 27th, 2014, 09:47 AM   #8886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhzz View Post
No,Guiyang-Guangzhou HSR is a passenger dedicated line uses ballastless tracks,with a designed speed of 300km/h.And the operational speed is 250km/h,so the D trains on this line are faster than many D trains on other lines,such as Shenzhen-Xiamen,Nanning-Guangzhou.
That's incorrect, the line's current designed speed is 250km/h, with infrastructures in place for future upgrades to 300km/h.

http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2014/09-30/6647697.shtml
Quote:
贵广铁路是我国西南地区第一条山区高速铁路,也是广西第一条采用无砟轨道的高铁线路,线路运营速度为250公里/小时,预留300公里/小时提速条件。
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Old December 27th, 2014, 11:45 AM   #8887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
That's incorrect, the line's current designed speed is 250km/h, with infrastructures in place for future upgrades to 300km/h.

http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2014/09-30/6647697.shtml

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
贵广铁路是我国西南地区第一条山区高速铁路,也是广西第一条采用无砟轨道的高铁线路,线路运营速度为250公里/小时,预留300公里/小时提速条件。
250km/h is operational speed not designed speed.

For example,the designed speed of Beijing-Guangzhou HSR is 350km/h,but the operational speed is 300km/h,they're not the same.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #8888
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From 2nd of January, 2015, the 2 nightly D trains Shanghai-Guangzhou shall be D931 (leaves 19:56, trip time 11:12, arrives 7:08) and D935 (leaves 20:02, trip time 11:16, arrives 7:18). Ticket price for second class seat 525 yuan 5 jiao. For comparison, fastest slow train takes 16:03, and daily G trains take 6:51 to 8:35.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 03:23 PM   #8889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhzz View Post

250km/h is operational speed not designed speed.

For example,the designed speed of Beijing-Guangzhou HSR is 350km/h,but the operational speed is 300km/h,they're not the same.
Are you saying trains can go 300km/h there just as they can go 350km/h (and they did before July 2011) on Wuhan-Guangzhou line? Or is it a case where core infrastructure (such as tracks) is suited for 300km/h but there are other technical limitations such as signalling?

Those would be two different things. In the first case we could say it's a 300km/h line even if speed is reduced to 250km/h for political or economic reasons while in the second case it would not be 300km/h line because trains cannot actually go at 300km/h for technical reasons.

Which one is it?
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:19 PM   #8890
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The distinction is important for future considerations, but in my view a 300 km/h line is a line with trains running at 300 km/h on them, not a line capable of having trains running at that speed. The reasons why there would be no such trains is less interesting.

(Personally I'd prefer lines measured in something like maximum average speed on the line segment, but usually only top speed is reported, even if that would only be on a small part of the journey.)
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:48 PM   #8891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Are you saying trains can go 300km/h there just as they can go 350km/h (and they did before July 2011) on Wuhan-Guangzhou line? Or is it a case where core infrastructure (such as tracks) is suited for 300km/h but there are other technical limitations such as signalling?

Those would be two different things. In the first case we could say it's a 300km/h line even if speed is reduced to 250km/h for political or economic reasons while in the second case it would not be 300km/h line because trains cannot actually go at 300km/h for technical reasons.

Which one is it?
the first one.it is a truly 300km/h line,neither 350 or 250.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:58 PM   #8892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
The distinction is important for future considerations, but in my view a 300 km/h line is a line with trains running at 300 km/h on them, not a line capable of having trains running at that speed. The reasons why there would be no such trains is less interesting.

(Personally I'd prefer lines measured in something like maximum average speed on the line segment, but usually only top speed is reported, even if that would only be on a small part of the journey.)
We're talking of technical standards there. Actual running speed is important but it's a different measurement.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 08:05 PM   #8893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhzz View Post
There're three high speed rails open today.

1.Lanzhou-Urumqi (1776km)
This's the first high speed rail on Qinghai-Tibet Plateau,and also the highest one in the world.

---gansudaily

2.Nanning-Guangzhou (577km)

3.Guiyang-Guangzhou (857km)
This's the first high speed rail through karst mountains area.

---南宁铁路

Just to put it in perspective, the total length of these three lines, 3210km, would make them second largest high speed network on the World. Longer than what Spain or Japan has. Nice news.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 10:03 PM   #8894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post

the first one.it is a truly 300km/h line,neither 350 or 250.
Thanks. This is precisely what I wanted to know.

What about Lanzhou-Urumqi? It was meant to be a 300km/h line too wasn't it?
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Old December 27th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #8895
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What happened to Futian Station? Seems to be very delayed. Same with Yujiapu Station.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 05:32 AM   #8896
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Found this on Xinhua today.

I always take these with a grain of salt, since it is a mouthpiece for the government. Though considering China started their high-speed line building binge just a decade ago, it is impressive that they have so much trackage now.

Quote:
Xinhua Insight: High speed rail brings development opportunities to western interior

XINING, Dec. 26 (Xinhua) -- Three new high speed railway lines officially opened on Friday, the bullet trains' maiden journeys may have transported passengers but they also brought economic opportunities to China's underdeveloped western interior.

The Lanxin high speed railway -- which links Xinjiang's Urumqi with Xining, capital of Qinghai Province; and Lanzhou, capital of Gansu Province -- is the first of its kind to be built on the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau.

The Guiguang high-speed railway, meanwhile, links the southwestern Guizhou Province and Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region in the south to the economic hub of Guangdong Province. The designed speed is 250 km per hour on this route.

The 574-km Nanguang high-speed railway links Nanning, capital of Guangxi, to Guangzhou, capital of Guandong.

The new railways are marvels of advanced modern engineering, as the west of China is infamous for its challenging environment.

DISTANCE AND TIME

China's western regions are rich in natural resources and home to dozens of ethnic moronities. However, for a long time, development has been stagnant.

Thus, the three lines will not only benefit the local people in terms of transportation but will also help the local economy.

Wang Dongwei, 51, a businessman who lives in Zhangye City in Gansu Province, jumped at the opportunity to take the high speed train from Zhangye to Lanzhou.

"In the 1980s, it would take 21 hours to travel from Zhangye to Lanzhou.Even today, the normal train takes more than six hours, but now, the trip is a mere three hours," he said.

Meng Yinzhi, an agricultural worker in Gugua Village in Sandu Autonomous County, which is southwest of Guizhou, said the railway would change her life.

"I will find a job in Guangzhou after the Spring Festival, as the new railway reduces the trip from two days to just three hours, meaning I will be able to change my work/life balance," said Meng, 36.

She explained that she had worked in Guangzhou for several years, but had returned home five years ago to take care of her elderly parents and baby, leaving her husband in the coastal city.

BRIGHTER FUTURE

Wang Yuanlai, head of Ping'an County in Qinghai, said: "The high-speed railway will help western regions monetize their natural resources and will bring industrial advantages with it."

According to Xinjiang's development and reform commission, due to human traffic swapping to the new railway, freight volume on the old Lanxin railway will increase, to 150 million tonnes a year compared to 78.5 million tonnes in 2013.

Director of the tourism bureau of Datong Hui and Tu Autonomous County in Qinghai, Sun Jing, said the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau will see a tourism boom thanks to the new Lanxin high speed line.

"The new network will bring more tourists to the region," he said, adding that in the past, travel around the area was difficult and time-consuming.

The Lanxin railway, which follows part of the ancient Silk Road route, is also expected to play a key role in the Silk Road Economic Belt program by boosting cooperation with central and western Asian nations.

"It will allow livestock, Tibetan blankets, dresses and other products to be shipped to Central Asia and Europe," said Wei Xiaojun, who works at the Xining City customs department.

Researcher with the Guizhou Academy of Social Sciences, Huang Yong, said the Guiguang high speed railway will facilitate the transfer of technology and experience from eastern coastal areas to the southwestern interior.

A MODERN LEGEND

China has achieved a string of high-speed railway mileage and technological milestones and boasts more than 10,000 km of high speed railway lines.

The Gobi Desert, which the Lanxin high speed railway crosses, had long been a technical conundrum for infrastructure projects.

Chief engineer of the railway project, Wang Zhengbang, explained that the area that the line crosses is known for devastating gales, which in the past have caused derailments, so special wind-breaking structures had to be designed.

"It is the first time that technology [like this] has been used on such a large scale," Wang said.

Guiguang high-speed railway, which runs through faults, rivers, valleys and downtown areas, has been hailed a "super railway" after its construction team had to overcome many difficulties.

The Karst region, general manager of Guiguang High-Speed Railway Co., Zhang Jianbo, explained was an especially difficult area for construction, due to the area's geology, such as fragile limestone.

Technology developed especially for the Guiguang high speed railway represents another landmark in China's high-speed railway history, and with China's high-speed trains run on five continents, the sector is fast becoming an attractive business magnet for foreign buyers.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 10:28 AM   #8897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinhua
China's western regions are rich in natural resources and home to dozens of ethnic moronities.
Bolding mine.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 10:44 AM   #8898
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Bolding mine.
Wow, there's an awkward typo for you. >.<

... and its still on the main page. I wonder how long before someone tells them.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 05:18 PM   #8899
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Moronities? How can someone make such a mistake?

By the way, what happens to the old lines when HSR opens? Can anyone tell me? Does the patronage drop or stay the same, with airline passengers shifting to HSR?
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Old December 28th, 2014, 05:26 PM   #8900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Just to put it in perspective, the total length of these three lines, 3210km, would make them second largest high speed network on the World. Longer than what Spain or Japan has. Nice news.
wow.
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