daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 28th, 2014, 05:42 PM   #8901
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Just to put it in perspective, the total length of these three lines, 3210km, would make them second largest high speed network on the World. Longer than what Spain or Japan has. Nice news.
530 km Urumqi-Kumul railway opened previously, so this leaves 2680 km.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 29th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #8902
skyridgeline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,524
Likes (Received): 1217

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
Moronities? How can someone make such a mistake?

By the way, what happens to the old lines when HSR opens? Can anyone tell me? Does the patronage drop or stay the same, with airline passengers shifting to HSR?

A new passenger rail line, mostly parallel to existing Lanxin railway has been in construction since November 4, 2009. The projected cost is 143.5 billion yuan. Once the new line is completed, the old one will be used mostly for freight.[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzhou...Railway#Future

According to data from Xinjiang's development and reform commission, the new rail will increase annual freight volume of the old Lanxin railway to 150 million tonnes compared with 78.5 million tonnes in 2013. - http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_19176262.htm


This will also reduce crude oil consumption for transport significantly.
skyridgeline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 29th, 2014, 06:38 AM   #8903
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

Dec 28
Jimo-Rongcheng HSR opened


Jimo-Rongcheng HSR is the major part of Qingdao-Rongcheng HSR. Now only Qingdao-Jimo part is under construction (opening early 2015). Connetion line to Qingdao-Jinan HSR is opened on the same day.

Qingdao-Rongcheng HSR:
Length: 299.18km
Design speed: 250km/h


(xinhua)
__________________

FM 2258, CP11, Arnorian liked this post
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2014, 08:16 AM   #8904
Cosmicbliss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Small towns enthusiast
Posts: 4,913
Likes (Received): 368

I think my question was not phrased well. What I mean is: when HSR opens do the poor and middle class stick to the slow railway with the richer off sections migrating to HSR from slow and planes? Or does everyone migrate? And also, is there any plan to speed up the slow trains as well?
Cosmicbliss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2014, 12:28 PM   #8905
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
I think my question was not phrased well. What I mean is: when HSR opens do the poor and middle class stick to the slow railway with the richer off sections migrating to HSR from slow and planes? Or does everyone migrate? And also, is there any plan to speed up the slow trains as well?
There were numerous speedup campaigns in the past which got regular trains running at up to 120-140km/h. Average speeds on those services vary between 80km/h and 100km/h (sometimes up to 110km/h on really fast services) depending on number of stops and dwelling time in stations. That's probably as fast as it can get with that kind of services and rolling stock. Perhaps some of the services could be sped up to something like 160km/h with some new rolling stock but I'm not sure if this is really necessary or viable.

I also wonder about what happens to slow services where new lines open? Some of them are certainly remaining in place for the time being but is that a temporary measure or are some slow long distance services to remain in the long term perspective?

Last edited by Pansori; December 30th, 2014 at 12:33 PM.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2014, 12:57 PM   #8906
ccdk
Registered User
 
ccdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 333
Likes (Received): 976

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I also wonder about what happens to slow services where new lines open? Some of them are certainly remaining in place for the time being but is that a temporary measure or are some slow long distance services to remain in the long term perspective?
While the income gap is still large between costal region and western region, the slow train services should be kept for the time being, there should be some sort of ongoing study by China Railway Corp., tracking the traffics, and when a break-even point is reached where running the slow train is not economical any more, they should discontinue the slow train services.
ccdk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2014, 01:18 PM   #8907
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccdk View Post
While the income gap is still large between costal region and western region, the slow train services should be kept for the time being, there should be some sort of ongoing study by China Railway Corp., tracking the traffics, and when a break-even point is reached where running the slow train is not economical any more, they should discontinue the slow train services.
It's probably not that straightforward because wouldn't a lot of towns lose rail connections entirely if conventional rail is discontinued?
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #8908
Cosmicbliss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Small towns enthusiast
Posts: 4,913
Likes (Received): 368

what about migrant workers?
Cosmicbliss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2014, 04:25 PM   #8909
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
There were numerous speedup campaigns in the past which got regular trains running at up to 120-140km/h. Average speeds on those services vary between 80km/h and 100km/h (sometimes up to 110km/h on really fast services) depending on number of stops and dwelling time in stations. That's probably as fast as it can get with that kind of services and rolling stock. Perhaps some of the services could be sped up to something like 160km/h with some new rolling stock but I'm not sure if this is really necessary or viable.
For example, take Ganzhou-Shaoguan. Newbuilt. Electrified. Supposedly 160 km/h line.
The fastest train for that 204 km distance is Z111. 2:20 - nonstop (on the route Harbin-Haikou). So the average speed is 87 km/h for the supposed 160 km/h.
The other 4 trains make between 2 and 4 stops between Ganzhou and Shaoguan, and take between 2:51 and 3:26. Meaning that average speeds are 60...70 km/h for the supposed 120 km/h top speed.
I sit in East Europe, at the end of a 209 km railway line built in 1870, mostly single track unelectrified. Top speed 120 km/h throughout
Diesel locomotive drawn cars cover the distance in 3 hours, with 3 stops.

But most of the traffic is diesel multiple units. Old DMU-s, with 130 km/h top speed, achieve trip times 2:25 to 2:27. So average speed over 80 km/h, speed similar to Z111, and as frequent stops as T and K trains have.

And new DMU-s, with top speed 160 km/h, run that same 209 km distance in 2:42...2:43 - accomplishing 18 intermediate stops. Average speed thus almost 80 km/h.
On another branch line, likewise built in 1876, single track unelectrified 120 km/h, for 190 km distance the trip times are 2:24..2:31 - again almost 80 km/h with 17 stops. And that branch line has express service - trip time 1:58...2:02, with 4 intermediate stops.

Does China need DMU-s and EMU-s designed for top speeds of 160...200 km/h on old lines?

Are any such EMU-s and DMU-s now in service?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2014, 07:56 AM   #8910
ccdk
Registered User
 
ccdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 333
Likes (Received): 976

CNR + CSR merger is official

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d0ec01b6-9...#axzz3NS4xZy9Z
ccdk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2014, 08:34 AM   #8911
ccdk
Registered User
 
ccdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 333
Likes (Received): 976

Beijing - Chengdu, Beijing - Chongqing G trains commence 2015.1.1

http://money.163.com/14/1231/02/AEOR8QHM00253B0H.html
http://www.sc.xinhuanet.com/content/...1113834090.htm

Beijing West - Chongqing North: G309/310, 18 stops, travel time 12.23, first class 1126 yuan, second class 767.5 yuan

Beijing West - Chengdu East: G307/308, 20 stops, travel time 14.25, first class 1242 yuan, second class 864 yuan ... this train also passes through Chongqing

Rolling stock: CRH380AL, operational speed: 250km/h
ccdk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2014, 12:05 PM   #8912
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,978
Likes (Received): 388

Resulting service from Chongqing:
Chongqing-Beijing: 2 G trains daily, taking 12:22 and 12:33. Departing Chongqing 7:58 and 9:09 in morning. Price second class 767 yuan 5 jiao, first class 1126 yuan, also available business class at 2383 yuan.
5 slow trains daily, of which the fastest, Z50 takes 19:10 overnight, departing 14:33. Also 1 T and 3 K trains, travel time 23:27 to 33:16. Price hard seat 224...240 yuan, hard sleeper 381...436 yuan, soft sleeper 598...669 yuan.
Chongqing-Shanghai: 4 D trains daily, taking 12:50 to 13:01. Departing Chongqing between 7:13 and 10:25 in morning. Price second class 509 yuan 5 jiao, first class 610 yuan, soft sleeper (on 1 of the 4 trains) 902 yuan 5 jiao...907 yuan 5 jiao.
3 slow trains daily, all K. Travel time 27:56 to 40:19. Price hard seat 240 yuan...268 yuan 5 jiao, hard sleeper 408 yuan...487 yuan 5 jiao, soft sleeper 640 yuan...751 yuan 5 jiao
Chongqing-Guangzhou: NO high speed service.
8 slow trains daily, all K. Travel time 20:30 to 30:44. Price hard seat 198...243 yuan, hard sleeper 337...444 yuan, soft sleeper 572...770 yuan.

Does Chongqing-Guangzhou need any high speed service?
If yes, then would G or D be needed?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2014, 05:10 PM   #8913
laojang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 125
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Thanks. This is precisely what I wanted to know.

What about Lanzhou-Urumqi? It was meant to be a 300km/h line too wasn't it?
Unfortunately it is only partially 250km/h and
partially 200km/h over Qilian mountains, thanks to
the current railway boss who replaced Mr. Liu in 2011.

Laojang
laojang no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2014, 05:15 PM   #8914
laojang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 125
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Is commercial service going to be 250km/h or 200km/h?
The fastest train D211
covers the 846km route in 4 hours 09 minutes, not bad for a very mountainous route. Since the average is slightly over 200km/h, it seems to be 250km/h service. By last check it is faster than the Shinkansen from Tokyo to Hiroshima, which has a slightly shorter distance but more stops.

Laojang
laojang no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 11:13 AM   #8915
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhzz View Post
250km/h is operational speed not designed speed.

For example,the designed speed of Beijing-Guangzhou HSR is 350km/h,but the operational speed is 300km/h,they're not the same.
As I have said above, both designed and operating speed are 250km/h, it has the potential to be upgraded to 300km/h line. This is different from your examples which are lines that are already capable of doing the higher speed, just administratively limited to a speed that is 50km/h lower. The text is perfectly clear, the Guiyang-Guangzhou line needs to be "speeded up" meaning upgraded, in order to do 300km/h.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 11:34 AM   #8916
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,505
Likes (Received): 6895

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
What happened to Futian Station? Seems to be very delayed. Same with Yujiapu Station.

No one knows?
BarbaricManchurian está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 01:59 PM   #8917
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
No one knows?
According to SZNews, the tunneling between Shenzhen North and Futian is complete, tracking laying is ongoing. Equipment installation at Futian is at its final stages, the station should become operational by the end of 2015.

http://barb.sznews.com/html/2014-12/...nt_3110742.htm
Quote:
高铁福田站明年底开通
广深港高铁深圳北站到福田站隧道已经贯通,目前正在进行轨道铺设。福田高铁站设备安装已经进入收尾阶段,预计高铁将在明年底开通到福田站。

广深港高铁起点是广州南站,经过东莞、深圳后,穿过深圳河进入香港境内,沿途设有庆盛站、虎门站、光明城站、深圳北站和福田站,终点是香港九龙西站。

广深港高铁福田站位于市民中心广场西侧益田路与深南大道交叉处地下。车站为地下三层,地下一层是与地铁、公交接驳的客流转换层,地下二层是高铁车站的候车站厅层,地下三层是高铁车站的上下客站台层。据介绍,福田站按照计划将在明年底通车,开通初期或将开行往返广州南站的高铁。目前广深港高铁香港段也在建设,预计将在2017年建成通车。按照时速200公里计算,高铁从福田站到深圳北站只要两三分钟,从福田站到广州南站最快只要30多分钟,福田到香港最快只要15分钟左右。据福田网
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.

Munwon, FM 2258 liked this post
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 02:01 PM   #8918
ccdk
Registered User
 
ccdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 333
Likes (Received): 976

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
What happened to Futian Station? Seems to be very delayed. Same with Yujiapu Station.
http://barb.sznews.com/html/2014-12/...nt_3110742.htm

Tunnel boring is completed, laying tracks at the moment
Installation of equipments/facilities is close to completion at Futian station, and the station is expected to be operational end of 2015
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
ccdk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2015, 05:59 AM   #8919
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

For a bit of nostalgia, D5406 Shanghai to Nanjing on a CRH2 running on the conventional line while the parallel 350km/h line is under construction. I thought it was interesting how basic Suzhou station(at 12:08) was compared to the upgraded station. I always wonder if these CRH trains still run on the old line. I can't tell from the video if they were running at 200km/h or not at the time.

FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2015, 11:26 AM   #8920
ccdk
Registered User
 
ccdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 333
Likes (Received): 976

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Does Chongqing-Guangzhou need any high speed service?
If yes, then would G or D be needed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu...-Speed_Railway
Apparently there is a Chengdu - Guangzhou HSR (in which the Guangzhou - Guiyang section was just opened) under construction, I presume this line will pass through Chongqing. Some forum posts mentioned this line will be operational in 2015.

Consider also the Chengdu - Chongqing Intercity line will also become operational in 2015
ccdk no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium