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Old March 8th, 2015, 08:53 AM   #9081
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I've seen this map or very similar before. I believe it's from before the general slowdown of Chinese HSR and indeed relies on 350 km/h operations.
Indeed. Beijing-Shanghai is 4 hours on map. Actual time is currently 4:48.
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Old March 8th, 2015, 08:35 PM   #9082
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Can someone confirm what is the actual maximum operating speed on Guiyang-Guangzhou line? On the timetable I see there is one non-stop service (D211) between Guiyang and Guangzhou which takes 4:09 to complete the 846km journey. That means it goes at an average speed of 205km/h which suggests that the maximum speed should be in the range of 250km/h. Is this the case? If so this might be one of the few (the only?) lines where D trains actually go at a maximum design speed.

Or is this line actually designed as a 300km/h line but after the slowdown made into a 250km/h line?
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Old March 8th, 2015, 11:22 PM   #9083
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248km/h displayed on CRH2A running on this line been photoed

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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Can someone confirm what is the actual maximum operating speed on Guiyang-Guangzhou line? On the timetable I see there is one non-stop service (D211) between Guiyang and Guangzhou which takes 4:09 to complete the 846km journey. That means it goes at an average speed of 205km/h which suggests that the maximum speed should be in the range of 250km/h. Is this the case? If so this might be one of the few (the only?) lines where D trains actually go at a maximum design speed.

Or is this line actually designed as a 300km/h line but after the slowdown made into a 250km/h line?
New to SkyscraperCity community, been following CRH on a few chinese railway fans forums (mainly on bbs.ourail.com) for years.
Found one post on bbs.hasea.com(海子网) may be helpful
bbs.hasea.com/thread-525988-1-1.
Add html at the end
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Old March 9th, 2015, 04:31 AM   #9084
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Guiyangbei(贵阳北)--Guiyang(贵阳)-----Longlibei(龙里北)----------------------------------Sanshuinan(三水南)---Guangzhounan(广州南)

From what i read from a post on ourail.com, the speed limit between Guiyangbei(贵阳北) to Guiyang(贵阳) is 80km/h to 100km/h;
The speed limit between Guiyang(贵阳) to Longlibei(龙里北) is 160km/h
Actual traveling speed without stopping between Guiyangbei(贵阳北) to Longlibei(龙里北) section (42km) is about 100km/h;
The speed limit between Longlibei(龙里北) to Sanshuinan(三水南) is 250km/h, traveling speed without stopping varis between 210km/h to 230km/h;
Then last section (about 52km) from Sanshuinan(三水南) to Guangzhounan(广州南) has a speed limit below 100km/h, and takes 36mins, so traveling speed about 87km/h;
There you go, i believe it's not too far from what's actually happening right now.
After a few mouths of running, when CRH gets more confidence, they should be able to lift the cap of speed limit of those two slow sections.
When there's a huge demand for the higher speed, they may even increase the speed limit of the majority section to 300km/h with some work(maybe signalling, superelevation...)
We can only hope.

Last edited by voyager221; March 9th, 2015 at 04:59 AM.
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Old March 9th, 2015, 04:57 AM   #9085
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Or is this line actually designed as a 300km/h line but after the slowdown made into a 250km/h line?
I would say yes and no.
The track centres, curve radius, area section of tunnels all comply to requirements for 300km/h, but the signalling and superelevation have all been cut down for 250km/h halfway the construction.
So without the upgrade, the line is stuck at 250km/h, you can understand why there're a lot people not happy with those who made the decision.
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Old March 9th, 2015, 05:16 AM   #9086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
I would say yes and no.
The track centres, curve radius, area section of tunnels all comply to requirements for 300km/h, but the signalling and superelevation have all been cut down for 250km/h halfway the construction.
So without the upgrade, the line is stuck at 250km/h, you can understand why there're a lot people not happy with those who made the decision.
A bit of a weird decision then. That doesn't sound like a good saving cost-wise since almost all of the most expensive technical attributes are in place anyway. Even the 350km/h rolling stock wouldn't make much difference int terms of cost compared to 250km/h.
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Old March 9th, 2015, 06:29 AM   #9087
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A bit of a weird decision then. That doesn't sound like a good saving cost-wise since almost all of the most expensive technical attributes are in place anyway. Even the 350km/h rolling stock wouldn't make much difference int terms of cost compared to 250km/h.
Unfortunately GuiGuang line is not the only line got this treatment.
Lanzhou(兰州)Xinjing(新疆) second line was desighed and built as 350km/h initially.
With hundreds miles of straight track, It could have been the perfect place to let CIT500 really have a go. A lot hardcore high speed railway fans even could see it beating French 574km/h record.
Right now most trains on the line are rarely running beyond 200km/h.
The decision had something to do with political necessity at the moment, nowadays people are still speculating who were actually behind it.
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Old March 9th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #9088
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Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
Then last section (about 52km) from Sanshuinan(三水南) to Guangzhounan(广州南) has a speed limit below 100km/h, and takes 36mins, so traveling speed about 87km/h;
Guangzhou South-Sanshui South, 51 km, is covered in 31 minutes by D2842.
Guangzhou South-Guangzhou North, 47 km, is covered in 17 minutes by many G trains.

Why is Guangzhou-Sanshui high speed railway so slow?
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Old March 10th, 2015, 12:48 AM   #9089
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Guangzhou South-Sanshui South, 51 km, is covered in 31 minutes by D2842.
Guangzhou South-Guangzhou North, 47 km, is covered in 17 minutes by many G trains.

Why is Guangzhou-Sanshui high speed railway so slow?
My guess, new line, safety redundency mindset, etc.

Permissible line speed between SanshuiSouth and GuangzhouSouth is 200km/h except at 10(11 on the other direction) places with speed limits 135km/h to 170km/h due to small radius curves.

Non stopping trains should be able to go through FoshanWest station without slowing down if I read the diagram of FoshanWest station correctly.

There's huge potential for improving traveling speed.
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Old March 10th, 2015, 04:10 PM   #9090
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Overnight high speed trains

The overnight high speed trains were announced for New Year, till 15th instant.

How has the experience of overnight high speed trains been?
Has any consideration been given to continue any overnight high speed trains after the holidays?
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Old March 10th, 2015, 04:18 PM   #9091
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China steps up weaving high-speed railway network

In the report on the work of the government this year, Premier Li Keqiang said that the central government will invest over 800 billion yuan ($127.76 billion) in railway construction and open over 8,000 kilometers to railway traffic.

All cities with more than 500,000 population will be connected by high-speed railway by 2015, it said.

As an important part of China's railway network plan, the high-speed railway which connects Zhengzhou and Xuzhou will connect Beijing-Shanghai railway and Beijing-Guangzhou railway together and also connect China's central city Zhengzhou to Xinjiang, CCTV reported.

The Zhengzhou-Xuzhou high-speed railway covers a distance of 361.9 km and has nine stations. The speed of the trains will reach 350 km per hour and the investment in this project will total 49.7 billion yuan, according to the reports.

Liu Guanying, the deputy commander of the project, said 61 percent of the construction with 29.5 billion yuan investment has finished. "The construction of this project will connect the central and the western area with the central and the eastern area which will contribute to the transportation in Europe and Asia," Liu said.

Sun Gongxin, the president's special assistant of China Railway Construction Corporation, said that the focus this year is on the ongoing project that connects Shanghai and Kunming covering more than
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Old March 10th, 2015, 04:37 PM   #9092
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China's high-speed rail traffic to grow within 20 years

BEIJING -- By focusing on passenger needs, and efficient operations, China's high-speed rail (HSR) traffic is expected to continue rapid growth over the coming two decades, said a World Bank paper.

China has the world's largest HSR network, but passenger numbers have been the subject of debate.

A World Bank paper released Friday finds initial traffic volumes are promising, with traffic growing from 128 million trips in 2008 to 672 million trips in 2013. In 2013, China's high-speed rail lines carried more passenger-kilometers (214 billion) than the rest of the world combined, about 2.5 times the volume in Japan and four times the volume in France.

China is a very large country with a high population density, widely spaced large cities, and economic rebalancing strategies go for the long-term success of HSR.

A survey by the World Bank, China Railway Corporation and the Third Railway Survey and Design Institute indicates that a large proportion of high-speed train passengers are between the ages of 25 and 55, with many using the HSR for business travel.

The survey shows the average income of high-speed train passengers was 35 to 50 percent higher than that of conventional train passengers.

"Understanding and addressing passenger needs are critical to achieving the full impact of the HSR network. While initial results are encouraging, HSR remains a major investment that requires high traffic density to be justified economically and financially," said Gerald Ollivier, a World Bank senior transport specialist and co-author of the paper.

"This can be achieved by working closely with cities to develop areas around stations in a way that leverages the gain in accessibility that HSR provides," Ollivier said.

It is important to optimize train frequencies and city pairing, introduce flexible ticket prices reflecting peak and off-peak periods, and introduce convenient e-ticketing services. "By focusing on these aspects, and on the efficient and effective operation of the network, HSR in China can continue to experience substantial growth for many years to come," he added.

The World Bank has provided loans to support six railway projects in China.

The Lanxin (Lanzhou-Urumqi) High-Speed Railway crosses a vast expanse of the Gobi Desert and windy areas -- a major technical feat -- and is the first high-speed railway of Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.

With this railway, travel time between Lanzhou,capital of Gansu province and Urumqi,capital of Xinjiang will be cut from the current 21 hours to 8 hours or less.

The operation of the new line will complement the current railway networks and greatly improve Xinjiang's transport capabilities to Central Asian and European countries and strengthen its role of being the transportation hub along the Silk Road Economic Belt.
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Old March 10th, 2015, 06:07 PM   #9093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The overnight high speed trains were announced for New Year, till 15th instant.

How has the experience of overnight high speed trains been?
Has any consideration been given to continue any overnight high speed trains after the holidays?
Actually the overnight D trains that were opened for CNY will continue running after 15 March. Also new overnight high speed routes including Beijing-Nanning and Beijing-Guiyang will be introduced, though these two will run four days a week.
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Old March 10th, 2015, 06:19 PM   #9094
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Opps actually all overnight D trains will run four days a week. (S M - - - F S).

Also Nanjing will open overnight D trains to Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Dalian and Harbin, according to this article.

http://news.xdkb.net/society/2015-03...ent_823607.htm
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Old March 11th, 2015, 03:19 AM   #9095
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Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
China steps up weaving high-speed railway network

In the report on the work of the government this year, Premier Li Keqiang said that the central government will invest over 800 billion yuan ($127.76 billion) in railway construction and open over 8,000 kilometers to railway traffic.

All cities with more than 500,000 population will be connected by high-speed railway by 2015, it said.

As an important part of China's railway network plan, the high-speed railway which connects Zhengzhou and Xuzhou will connect Beijing-Shanghai railway and Beijing-Guangzhou railway together and also connect China's central city Zhengzhou to Xinjiang, CCTV reported.

The Zhengzhou-Xuzhou high-speed railway covers a distance of 361.9 km and has nine stations. The speed of the trains will reach 350 km per hour and the investment in this project will total 49.7 billion yuan, according to the reports.

Liu Guanying, the deputy commander of the project, said 61 percent of the construction with 29.5 billion yuan investment has finished. "The construction of this project will connect the central and the western area with the central and the eastern area which will contribute to the transportation in Europe and Asia," Liu said.

Sun Gongxin, the president's special assistant of China Railway Construction Corporation, said that the focus this year is on the ongoing project that connects Shanghai and Kunming covering more than
Strange claim. If the number hasn't been messed up, then either a different way to calculate city population was used or our "Salesman" premier knows little about ongoing HSR construction and planning.
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Old March 11th, 2015, 08:53 AM   #9096
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Strange claim. If the number hasn't been messed up, then either a different way to calculate city population was used or our "Salesman" premier knows little about ongoing HSR construction and planning.
All options are likely.

About that city population... take the city Li Keqiang should know about. His home is the only county with a station on Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway.

Chuzhou prefecture level city. As of 2010 census, 7 260 240 citizens.
And just 3 937 868 inhabitants.
Now, the "metro" and "urban" population of Chuzhou is classified as 562 321 people.
But the "urban density" of 400 per square km shows it is not actually urban.
Now my analysis - population from now on rounded to thousands:
  1. Langya District - 310 000, 1715 per sq km
  2. Nanqiao District - 252 000, 212 per square km
  3. Tianchang sub-prefecture level city - 603 000, 341 per square km
  4. Mingguang county level city - 533 000, 228 per square km
  5. Laian County - 432 000, 292 per square km
  6. Quanjiao County - 384 000, 244 per square km
  7. Dingyuan County - 779 000, 260 per square km
  8. Fengyang County - 645 000, 331 per square km

I see no reason to classify Nanqiao District as urban - the population is less dense than any county in Chuzhou.
This leaves Chuzhou with population under 300 000, all in Langya.
And Dingyuan County is more populous than the two Districts combined.
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Old March 11th, 2015, 11:33 AM   #9097
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All options are likely.

About that city population... take the city Li Keqiang should know about. His home is the only county with a station on Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway.

Chuzhou prefecture level city. As of 2010 census, 7 260 240 citizens.
And just 3 937 868 inhabitants.
Now, the "metro" and "urban" population of Chuzhou is classified as 562 321 people.
But the "urban density" of 400 per square km shows it is not actually urban.
Now my analysis - population from now on rounded to thousands:
  1. Langya District - 310 000, 1715 per sq km
  2. Nanqiao District - 252 000, 212 per square km
  3. Tianchang sub-prefecture level city - 603 000, 341 per square km
  4. Mingguang county level city - 533 000, 228 per square km
  5. Laian County - 432 000, 292 per square km
  6. Quanjiao County - 384 000, 244 per square km
  7. Dingyuan County - 779 000, 260 per square km
  8. Fengyang County - 645 000, 331 per square km

I see no reason to classify Nanqiao District as urban - the population is less dense than any county in Chuzhou.
This leaves Chuzhou with population under 300 000, all in Langya.
And Dingyuan County is more populous than the two Districts combined.
Good point.
The problem is there are still too many big cities won't see the HSR service by the end of this year. Some of them will be lucky to see the beginning of the construction this year. And they all look like to me having urban population more than half million .
Just name a few:
淮安(Huai'an) 襄阳(Xiangyang) 临沂(Linyi) 阜阳(Fuyang) 银川(Yinchuan) 赣州(Ganzhou) 遵义(Zunyi) 常德(Changde) 南阳(Nanyang) 宜宾(Yibin)
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Old March 11th, 2015, 12:24 PM   #9098
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Do I need to have more than 10 posts before posting the link of a video?
Found some very detailed videos taken on board CRH2A first day in service on GuiyangGuangzhou(贵广) HSR line.
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Old March 11th, 2015, 11:34 PM   #9099
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GuangZhou - Shenzhen - HongKong HSR

http://news.takungpao.com.hk/paper/q...5/2376536.html


- Black marking: GZ - SZ railway
- Green marking: GZ - SZ intercity HSR
- Red marking: GZ - SZ - HK HSR (purple: HK section)

brief translation:
- Futian station can be operational by year end 2015
- tunnel construction has entered HK from SZ
- by year end next year the line to Kowloon can be operational (detail plan TBD)

-----------------------
A bit sceptical on the progress of the HK section, as the news posted in Hong Kong/China HSR says there could be further delays into 2017.
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Last edited by ccdk; March 11th, 2015 at 11:59 PM.
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Old March 12th, 2015, 08:53 AM   #9100
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Good point.
The problem is there are still too many big cities won't see the HSR service by the end of this year. Some of them will be lucky to see the beginning of the construction this year. And they all look like to me having urban population more than half million .
Just name a few:
淮安(Huai'an)
Checking from that:
Yes.
As for population:
Qinghe District - 530 000 people, density 4071
Qingpu District - 330 000 people, density 1120
Clearly over half a million in a genuine urban centre.

As for rail: Huaian is on Xinyi-Changxing railway.
Single track. Opened in 2005. Crosses Yangtze by ferry between Jingjiang and Jiangyin.

Hm... would the Changxing-Xinyi route be a sensible path for a second parallel Shanghai-Beijing high speed railway?
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