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Old July 10th, 2015, 09:15 AM   #9681
kolnidur
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1) What would stop any foreign brand from making something as fast/reliable as the 380A? Can they actually make it (without completely infringing) -- especially now CSR has demonstrated a viable model? Or is there some design puzzle that is just hard to crack at that speed level?

2) To Foxmulder's point, does the technology's advantage lie entirely in the rail network? Is that due to geography or something special/more-expensive about the concrete slabs they use?

3) What % of importance would you attribute bogies to the technology gap of CSR vs others? If Bombardier's bogie is better, is it being used in faster designs elsewhere? Does anyone here think CSR's bogies are something unique?

I'm trying to see what % of their innovation is mixing-matching existing ingredients, versus actually inventing new ingredients. But sometimes 'trade-secrets' are also more nuanced in the 'mixing' (some kind of process) rather than in simply piecing parts together using a better system-design -- which is too easy to reverse-engineer..

I just wonder if Siemens engineers are actually scratching their heads about this still or are the improvements rather obvious but they can't outright copy it?
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Old July 10th, 2015, 09:24 AM   #9682
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They all have standard 450-metre long platforms like all the other CRH stations, even Chengdu-Dujiangyan line is mostly regarded as a standalone fast metro.
On the other hand, Emeishan-Chengdu and Jiangyou-Chengdu lines do run through Chengdu - and stop at Shuangliu Airport.

Are these high speed railways popular with long distance commuters? Like people who come from Emeishan and ride HSR to work in Chengdu, or to get off at Shengliu airport to fly to work?
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Old July 10th, 2015, 10:14 AM   #9683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolnidur View Post
1) What would stop any foreign brand from making something as fast/reliable as the 380A? Can they actually make it (without completely infringing) -- especially now CSR has demonstrated a viable model? Or is there some design puzzle that is just hard to crack at that speed level?
Lawsuits mostly. If Siemens filched Bombardier's truck design you bet your a$$ Bombardier's gonna sue. But the CRH 380A was produced under something that probably lies between "technology sharing" (like the KTX-II, which is developed on an Alstom TGV Reseau platform) and "reverse engineering" (unsurprising, since CRH went and bought equipment from all of the major manufacturers).

Essentially, what CRH is saying is that if Rotem can (theoretically) market the very-obviously-an-Alstom-derivative KTX-II overseas then they should be able to market their own product as well.
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2) To Foxmulder's point, does the technology's advantage lie entirely in the rail network? Is that due to geography or something special/more-expensive about the concrete slabs they use?
HSR technology takes advantage of various things. For example, a perfectly straight level single-block track would theoretically have no speed limit. But things like friction and drag get in the way of that and probably limit actual speed to 500/kph or so. The thing is, though, track geometry is the principal limiter on operating (rather than test or theoretical) speeds: you're highly unlikely to get a dead-straight shot, and every curve has to be properly banked (superelevated) to keep line speed up. The higher the line speed, the more banking has to be applied to sharper curvature; the upper limit of how much banking can be safely applied over the line's sharpest curves therefore governs its effective speed limit.

It's also notable that the Japanese HSR network is about a generation older than the French one, and two generations older than China's. Just as the LGV Sud-est (France's oldest) has a noticeably lower speed limit (250 kph v 300 kph IIRC) than the much newer LGV Est, so too the oldest parts of the largely-built-out Japanese Shinkansen network is built to a higher-curvature and hence slower standard than China's.
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3) What % of importance would you attribute bogies to the technology gap of CSR vs others? If Bombardier's bogie is better, is it being used in faster designs elsewhere? Does anyone here think CSR's bogies are something unique?
Eh I'm not a mechanical engineer. My sense is that CRH thinks Bombardier's trucks are better because they use fewer moving parts to do the job.

The thing is, train design isn't just trucks. You need aerodynamics and you need baffles to counter lift. You need good electronics. You need a lot of things and the actual trucks are a small (if important) part of the all-over design.
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I'm trying to see what % of their innovation is mixing-matching existing ingredients, versus actually inventing new ingredients. But sometimes 'trade-secrets' are also more nuanced in the 'mixing' (some kind of process) rather than in simply piecing parts together using a better system-design -- which is too easy to reverse-engineer..
Don't we all...
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I just wonder if Siemens engineers are actually scratching their heads about this still or are the improvements rather obvious but they can't outright copy it?
I doubt it. The Velaro was the only distributed-traction HSR trainset other than the Japanese models (whose export's been limited) for more than a decade. It's only been in the last couple of years that Alstom's AGV and Bombardier's Zefiro have hit the rails.
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Old July 10th, 2015, 10:47 AM   #9684
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Hefei-Fuzhou HSR in full operation for two weeks
By 铁路小亨

















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Old July 10th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #9685
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There are now 12 daily G trains Hangzhou-Fuzhou via Shangrao. Trip time 3:27 to 3:54 for 681 km.
The route via Ningbo has 1 G train (G55) and 23 D trains, trip time 4:25 to 5:29 for 724 km.
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Old July 10th, 2015, 10:58 PM   #9686
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What's the actual running speed on Hefei-Fuzhou line?
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Old July 11th, 2015, 01:43 AM   #9687
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
On the other hand, Emeishan-Chengdu and Jiangyou-Chengdu lines do run through Chengdu - and stop at Shuangliu Airport.

Are these high speed railways popular with long distance commuters? Like people who come from Emeishan and ride HSR to work in Chengdu, or to get off at Shengliu airport to fly to work?
The potential of this line has been deliberately held back, it's almost like the operator wants to make it fail, can't understand why.
It was designed to be a 300kph lines, then downgraded to 250kph, now it operates at below 200kph, number of services also got reduced, as the same time, the the tickets price per km is as expensive as other 300kph lines.

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What's the actual running speed on Hefei-Fuzhou line?
Top speed has been capped at 300kph and there's a lot slack in the timetable, most time the train's running below 295kph.
The quickest pair of services achieve average speed 222kph with four stops between Hefei and Fuzhou.
Rest the services only have about 185kph average speed with more than four stops.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know if this has been posted, if so it's still worth watching again
Driver's view onboard CRH3C running at 330kph on Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR, 26/06/2011, 720p

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Last edited by voyager221; July 11th, 2015 at 07:53 AM.
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Old July 11th, 2015, 03:26 AM   #9688
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That is an epic video. It looks like video is being fast forwarded.
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Old July 11th, 2015, 03:40 AM   #9689
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Old July 13th, 2015, 01:58 PM   #9690
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High-speed railway on trial run in China's farthest north
Xinhua Excerpt
2015-07-13



HARBIN -- A high-speed railway between two cities in Northeast China's Heilongjiang province, known for its high latitudes and biting cold winters, began a trial operation on Monday.

A bullet train departed from the provincial capital of Harbin at 5:18 am to the city of Qiqihar, according to the Harbin Railway Bureau.

The railway, with the highest latitude among all high-speed railways in China, will be put into official operation in August, more than five years after the construction started on the 281-km route.

With a designated speed of 250 kilometers per hour and eight stops, the rail is expected to carry about eight million passengers annually.

The trains have been modified to adapt to temperatures as low as minus 40 degrees Celsius and resist adverse weather, such as strong winds, heavy rain, snow and fog.
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Old July 13th, 2015, 06:01 PM   #9691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
<snip>

-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know if this has been posted, if so it's still worth watching again
Driver's view onboard CRH3C running at 330kph on Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR, 26/06/2011, 720p

One of the coolest videos I've ever seen here. I would love to see a longer version of this.
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Old July 14th, 2015, 12:00 PM   #9692
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
High-speed railway on trial run in China's farthest north
Xinhua Excerpt
2015-07-13



The railway, with the highest latitude among all high-speed railways in China,
How is the current state of progress of Harbin-Jiamusi high speed railway?
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Old July 14th, 2015, 12:17 PM   #9693
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Hefei-Fuzhou HSR in full operation for two weeks
By 铁路小亨

















wow,it's very beautiful.
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Old July 14th, 2015, 12:19 PM   #9694
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Lanzhou-Urumqi HSR,July 2015

Summer in Shandan Horse Farm,Gansu Province,Northwest China.
1.

2.

3.

4.

5.


-----------
xinhuanet
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Old July 14th, 2015, 12:20 PM   #9695
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
One of the coolest videos I've ever seen here. I would love to see a longer version of this.
Yeah, I wish there's a longer version too, it's harder to get these kind of footages as the rules regulating drivers are getting tighter and tighter.

------------------------------------------------------------
It seems Harbin-Qiqihar PDL will be operated with trains at speed upto 250kph in summer seasons, the line was initially desighed as 300kph PDL then downgraded to 250kph.

Hopefully it's indicating other new 250kph lines will open with trains running at the designed speeds as well.

Harbin North station






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Old July 14th, 2015, 12:32 PM   #9696
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Rapseed field in summer along Lanzhou-Xinjiang PDL















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Old July 14th, 2015, 12:51 PM   #9697
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Nice photos !
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Old July 14th, 2015, 02:54 PM   #9698
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Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
It seems Harbin-Qiqihar PDL will be operated with trains at speed upto 250kph in summer seasons,
What shall be the train speed in winter?
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Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
Harbin North station
Which high speed railway stations exist in Harbin?
Shall any direct high speed rains run through Harbin from Qiqihar to Changchun or beyond?
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Old July 14th, 2015, 04:01 PM   #9699
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What shall be the train speed in winter?

Which high speed railway stations exist in Harbin?
Shall any direct high speed rains run through Harbin from Qiqihar to Changchun or beyond?
200kph, same as Harbin-Dalian HSR

Harbin West and Harbin North.
It's scheduled to open on August 8, we'll know for sure very soon.
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Old July 14th, 2015, 05:27 PM   #9700
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It's scheduled to open on August 8
To celebrate 70 years from Soviet attack on Manchukuo?
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