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Old December 28th, 2009, 03:45 AM   #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papagei View Post
Think of Spain which cancled their 350 km/h.
Far as i know, spain did not canceld nothing, ERTMS Level 1 first and Level 2 second. Simply implement the level 2 is not ready . But the LAV are still made for 350km/h.

The website http://www.ertms.com/2007v2/projects.html says Wuhan-Guangzhou is Level 2... someone can confirm this?
. xD vote: a) ERTMS lvl 2
b) ERTMS lvl 2 + CTCS- 3
c) CTCS- 3

Last edited by Hopobcn; December 28th, 2009 at 03:54 AM.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 04:30 AM   #962
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Taxi from Brisbane Airport to Brissy city and from Sydney Airport to Sydney Central are both around A$30-40, even the train on both sides are around A$15. The quality of service onboard the CRH3 is also far better than Jetstar or Tiger. Without a doubt the CRH is cheap by western standards, as it should be.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 04:35 AM   #963
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Also It would be more fun personally to be riding in a train and have a window seat.

Flying can be scenic sure but there are always clouds it seems when I fly. I also don't feel like I've truly "been there" in a plane as opposed to being on the ground.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 05:14 AM   #964
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yeah best of luck trying to click pictures while the scenary starts whizzing away at the rate of 300 kmph
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Old December 28th, 2009, 06:43 AM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Holly View Post
By US standards yes, but not by Chinese standards.
55 yuan is dirt cheap by Chinese standard. Btw I don't know where you got that figure from. One way ticket costs Y490 for second class and Y780 for first class.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 09:00 AM   #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightside. View Post
I really doubt 55 yuan is expensive for Chinese people, that is even cheap over here in Pakistan for a 1000 km journey.
One must take into account a lot of things:

1) A 55 yuan ticket from Karachi to Lahore (about 1200 km) would be expensive for those who travel in 3rd class. I don't know but my guess is it'd cost around 30 yuan or so.

2) More importantly, it's about what people are used to opaying. On another site a Chinese person said that they're used to paying 11 yuan for a 12 hr. journey. Since they're used to it, paying 5 times more seems a lot. According to that person, she'd gladly pay 11 yuan and take the slower train that takes 9 hrs. longer.

If the ridership is very low, I can see the fare dropping to around 25 or so and then being gradually increased. That way people will get used to it and find it indispensible. Right now they're thinking 55 yuan, **** it.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 09:04 AM   #967
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I'm not trying to sound negative though. Nice to see a HS train. From wikipedia, the technology is from Shinkansen and German ICE (Valero).
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Old December 28th, 2009, 12:00 PM   #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arul Murugan View Post
Is this line goes via Changsha?

Last time when I traveled from Guangzhou Baiyun AP to Changsha by flight it took 1hr 30min and fare was around 800CNY.

If this high speed train goes via Changsha, can any one tell about travel time and fare!


CRH Guangzhou-Changsha Timetable Version 2009.12.28


 车次, 始发站, 终点站, 车辆类型, 发站, 发时,  到站, 到时, 停站, 历时, 硬座, 软座, 硬卧中, 软卧下
G1022 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 07:00 长沙南 09:15 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1024 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 07:30 长沙南 09:52 5 02:22 312 499 - -
G1026 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 08:00 长沙南 10:15 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1028 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 08:30 长沙南 10:51 5 02:21 312 499 - -
G1030 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 09:00 长沙南 11:14 4 02:14 312 499 - -
G1032 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 09:50 长沙南 12:19 4 02:29 312 499 - -
G1034 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 10:50 长沙南 13:05 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1036 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 11:20 长沙南 13:35 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G6002 广州北 长沙南 高速动车 广州北 11:48 长沙南 14:17 6 02:29 312 499 - -
G1038 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 12:20 长沙南 14:34 4 02:14 312 499 - -
G1040 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 12:50 长沙南 15:05 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1042 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 13:20 长沙南 15:42 5 02:22 312 499 - -
G1044 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 13:50 长沙南 16:05 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1046 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 14:20 长沙南 16:49 6 02:29 312 499 - -
G1048 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 14:50 长沙南 17:05 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1050 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 15:20 长沙南 17:35 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1052 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 16:30 长沙南 18:45 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G6004 广州北 长沙南 高速动车 广州北 17:00 长沙南 19:43 8 02:43 312 499 - -
G1054 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 17:50 长沙南 20:12 5 02:22 312 499 - -
G6006 广州北 长沙南 高速动车 广州北 18:20 长沙南 20:48 6 02:28 312 499 - -
G1056 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 18:48 长沙南 21:03 4 02:15 312 499 - -
G1058 广州北  武汉 高速动车 广州北 19:20 长沙南 21:28 3 02:08 312 499 - -
G6008 广州北 长沙南 高速动车 广州北 19:50 长沙南 22:26 7 02:36 312 499 - -
G6010 广州北 长沙南 高速动车 广州北 20:35 长沙南 22:57 5 02:22 312 499 - -



So, the ticket price(Guangzhou-Changsha) is 312RMB(second class) and 499RMB(first class), travel time is about 2 hours 20 minutes.


First Class
image hosted on flickr



Second Class
image hosted on flickr

Last edited by HunanChina; December 28th, 2009 at 12:42 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 12:53 PM   #969
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ticket style

image hosted on flickr

Last edited by HunanChina; December 28th, 2009 at 01:02 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 12:58 PM   #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine View Post
48€, and from takeoff to landing is about 70 minutes - but depends on the wind etc. I don't include waiting times, or taxi times.
Thats not possible...a plane cruises at a maximum speed of 850-900 km/hr but only at altitudes and it will waste a lot of time gaining and loosing that altitude during which time its speed will be considerably lower. A flight time of 1 hr or 70 mins just doesn't add up.

And a quick googling for the flights reveals that it is 1hr 30mins which is more appropriate to my original estimate. Add the time for early arrival, transport to and from city centers and you quickly have 3hr or more.

Anyway, going shorter distances 500-600km by HSR is much faster than by plane and I think is more successful wherever it has been implemented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragon View Post
yeah best of luck trying to click pictures while the scenary starts whizzing away at the rate of 300 kmph
Unless you want to capture the electric poles on each side of the train (which are barely 10ft away) or you got trees lined up on either side of the track, its not much of a problem.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
For the issue of economic feasibility, it can be much harder to prove things either way, as again, you'd have to know the exact modifications and changes chinese engineers made and above all their testing data. Surely you don't want to play the smug European believing blindly that what can't be X, Y, or Z (e.g. economically feasible) in Europe cannot be X, Y, or Z elsewhere? ;-)
Japanese and European engineers have developed this technology for several decades. You don't really want to make us believe that a few modifications made by Chinese engineers in a few months pushed the economical feasibility significantly. It seems to me that you are the only smug in here.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
The chinese claim they have developed and deployed for the W-G-line the CTCS-3 system ("Chinese Train Control System"). I have no idea how much they borrowed or leaned on the European control systems in developing it. The performance of CTCS-3 is claimed to be: automated report and warning for tracks within 32 kilometers ahead in the direction of travel, with the gliding distance when braking at the speed of 350km/h being 5 km.
It is the same system they use in europe, it was contracted to and installed by Bombardier (source IRJ sept 1 2007) and it is the ETCS (in china CTCS). It is the level 2 but not fully functional, when working as designed they will be able to run 24 trains per hour at 350km/h (one train every 2,5 minutes). Today the best they´ve been able to get out of the ETCS level 2 is one train every 3 minutes at 250km/h (Lötschberg base tunel).
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:12 PM   #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB View Post
Thats not possible...a plane cruises at a maximum speed of 850-900 km/hr but only at altitudes and it will waste a lot of time gaining and loosing that altitude during which time its speed will be considerably lower. A flight time of 1 hr or 70 mins just doesn't add up.

And a quick googling for the flights reveals that it is 1hr 30mins which is more appropriate to my original estimate. Add the time for early arrival, transport to and from city centers and you quickly have 3hr or more.

Anyway, going shorter distances 500-600km by HSR is much faster than by plane and I think is more successful wherever it has been implemented.
Average time is 1 hour 25, actually. But I have done it in 1 hour ~ 1 hour and 10 minutes. Other times, we've had to fly out over the Blue Mountains to get ourselves in a landing position, which takes up to 1 hour and 30 minutes. I have flown it many of times. It's a 950km route by road, as the crow flies it's a 728km journey.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:19 PM   #974
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The rolling stock's interior looks very similar to ICE3.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:24 PM   #975
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df
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
It is the same system they use in europe, it was contracted to and installed by Bombardier (source IRJ sept 1 2007) and it is the ETCS (in china CTCS). It is the level 2 but not fully functional, when working as designed they will be able to run 24 trains per hour at 350km/h (one train every 2,5 minutes). Today the best they´ve been able to get out of the ETCS level 2 is one train every 3 minutes at 250km/h (Lötschberg base tunel).
I couldn't find that issue of the IRJ, as it is more than two and half years ago. This would however be in a way compatible with the chinese sources, insofar as the chinese describe what they did in the area of control and guidance as "merging-innovation", a code-word for taking technologies from somewhere - perhaps from different sources - and optimizing them by small tweaks and modifications. In any event, the performance claimed for CTCS-3 is markedly higher than what you cite as "the most" ETCS-2 is able to do so far: on the wuhan-guangzhou line trains are supposed to be able to run every 3 minutes.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:34 PM   #977
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张曙光:武广正式运营前已试运行100万公里

Mr. Zhang(General Engineer of MoR) said: CRH Wuhan-Guangzhou line has been test running for 1 million km with ten or more HSR train before commercial service. The speed of 390km/h is safe, and 350km/h is safe too.


Wuhan-Guangzhou CRH line send out a test HSR train(CRH5) every early morning to detect a lot of data and ensure it's safety.

This is Test Train(CRH5). The color is yellow.
image hosted on flickr
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:35 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Japanese and European engineers have developed this technology for several decades. You don't really want to make us believe that a few modifications made by Chinese engineers in a few months pushed the economical feasibility significantly. It seems to me that you are the only smug in here.
I am not wanting anyone to believe anything. It is rather Papagei wanting me _not_ to believe what the chinese are apparently saying they were going to do. Well, my suggestion was, wait and see. How is it smug to suggest that we not rush to conclusions before person X had the time to show he could do what he promised to do??? May I suggest looking up the word "smug" in the nearest dictionary? ;-)

Last edited by Ariel74; December 28th, 2009 at 01:45 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:41 PM   #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
I couldn't find that issue of the IRJ, as it is more than two and half years ago. This would however be in a way compatible with the chinese sources, insofar as the chinese describe what they did in the area of control and guidance as "merging-innovation", a code-word for taking technologies from somewhere - perhaps from different sources - and optimizing them by small tweaks and modifications. In any event, the performance claimed for CTCS-3 is markedly higher than what you cite as "the most" ETCS-2 is able to do so far: on the wuhan-guangzhou line trains are supposed to be able to run every 3 minutes.
When level 2 i fully functional trains will be able to run every 2,5 minutes, the performance for CTCS-3 and ETCS-2 are exactly the same, they are the same systems.

Took me half a minute to digg up the press release, IRJ sep issue 07
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/irj0907/#/44

Bombardier secures E66 million Chinese ERTMS contract.

China Railway Signaling and Communications has awarded Bombardier a euro 66 million contract to install, test and commision the European Traffic Managment System (ERTMS) on the 1000km Wuhan-Guangzhou line. Bombardier will install Interflo 450 equipment by january 2010 when a fleet of 60 trains will start operating with ERTMS Level 2. Bombardier will supply 120 onboard systems for 60 highspeed trains and nine radio block centers. It will also provide support on interface specifications and interoperability.

Last edited by gincan; December 28th, 2009 at 01:59 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #980
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Guangzhou South Railway Station(The bigest Railway Station of South China)

The hub station of CRH Wuhan-Guangzhou(a part of Beijing-Guangzhou line) and Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hongkong line.

image hosted on flickr
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