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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:39 PM   #9781
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Incomes won't support HSR commutes.

Data provided by the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) show the average annual income of urban employees in the non-private sector rose by 9.4 percent year-on-year to 56 339 yuan at a national level. Taking into account price rises, the average salary increased by 7.1 percent.

Urban employees in the private sector earned 36,390 yuan on average, experiencing a growth rate that surged by 11.3 percent, or 9.0 percent in real terms.


An 100 yuan a day intercity commute becomes a significant chunk of their average wage. (2000 yuan a month, 24 000 yuan a year)



Well, the average middle class won't be living in a half decent location anymore, but commute from beyond the 5th ring road into town. The average urban income is not sufficient to rent and do expensive HSR commutes.
What could be a feasible commute price, as in daily return trip, for a well-paid professional working in Shenzhen?
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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #9782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Incomes won't support HSR commutes.
Yet.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 12:00 AM   #9783
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Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
Just a simple achievement for the others, but a milestone for the engineers to make it happen
100% True. china is now new home of bullet trains thanks to japanese support + Chinese engineers
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Old July 30th, 2015, 04:35 AM   #9784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shah Nawaz View Post
100% True. china is now new home of bullet trains thanks to japanese support + Chinese engineers
actually these two trains get more from bombardier and Siemens,they almost abandon JP standards,the interior design gets more from JP,after all the JP trains are comfortable and humane.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 04:35 AM   #9785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What could be a feasible commute price, as in daily return trip, for a well-paid professional working in Shenzhen?
Shenzhen's average income was 4000 yuan a month in 2013. Masters Degree holders jump up to almost 10,000 a month. These figures are still too low to make HSR commutes a feasible option for the masses.

Source : http://www.shenzhen-standard.com/201...han-5-percent/
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Old July 30th, 2015, 05:27 AM   #9786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What could be a feasible commute price, as in daily return trip, for a well-paid professional working in Shenzhen?
Quick look at job ads

Sale person, highschool degree. 5000-8000 rmb/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpshichangyingxiao/1769778287x.htm

Highschool teacher, college degree, 8000-12000/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpjiaoshi/1511260556x.htm

Accountant, associate degree, 3000 - 5000 rmb/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpcaiwushenji/1794439895x.htm

Doctor, associate degree, 8000 - 12000 rmb /mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpyiyuanyiliao/1514580673x.htm

Nurse, associate degree, 2000 - 3000 rmb/ mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpyiyuanyiliao/1137048836x.htm

[yes, the medical professional in no where nearly as lucrative in China as it is in the West. Hence a large number of them come to the west.]

Software Engineer, College degree, experience developing android apps., 12000-20000 rmb/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpruanjiangongch...781558768x.htm

Electrical Engineer, associate degree, 5000-8000 rmb/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpdianqinengyuan/1597017218x.htm


Assistant lawyer, college degree, 3000-5000 rmb/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpfalv/1525189359x.htm

None of the ad for licensed lawyer have compensation info, so it's a bit of mystery. My cousin however is a licensed lawyer in beijing with 3 years of experience. Her pay is about 8000 - 12000 mo range with a housing subsidy that she decided not to take, cause the free apartment is 1.5 hour away from where she works. (she currently rents a 5000/mo apartment that's 10 min walk to work... But her company may have some sort of housing subsidy for that as well. I position I almost took in China give me 3000 rmb / mo for housing subsidy)


for comparison
Foxconn, apprentice level line worker, no education requirement. 3000 - 5000 rmb/mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpjigongyibangon...657502608x.htm

Nanny, middle school education, 5000 - 8000 rmb / mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpbaomu/1758566255x.htm


keep in mind in addition to salary many of these position offer bonus as well as housing subsidy as well.

Licensed welder, middle school education, require general welding certification. 5000 - 8000 rmb / mo
http://sz.ganji.com/zpjigongyibangon...456044749x.htm
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Last edited by luhai; July 30th, 2015 at 05:49 AM.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 07:09 AM   #9787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Shenzhen's average income was 4000 yuan a month in 2013. Masters Degree holders jump up to almost 10,000 a month. These figures are still too low to make HSR commutes a feasible option for the masses.
Why, what would be a feasible commute cost for someone who is worth income of 10 000 yuan a month or a housing subsidy of 3000 yuan a month?
Huizhou South-Shenzhen North trip time is from 29 to 40 minutes. Ticket price second class 16 yuan 5 jiao.
That makes 33 yuan for a daily return trip, and therefore 726 yuan over 22 working days of a month. Getting affordable?
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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:39 AM   #9788
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Nanjing-Anqing PDL into integration and testing phase from 28/07, test run follow soon
Wuhu section in pictures



















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Last edited by voyager221; July 30th, 2015 at 02:35 PM. Reason: spelled Nanjing wrong
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Old July 30th, 2015, 01:55 PM   #9789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voyager221 View Post
Nanning-Anqing PDL into integration and testing phase from 28/07, test run follow soon
Wuhu section in pictures



















Nanjing,not nanning
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Old July 30th, 2015, 02:36 PM   #9790
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Quote:
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Nanjing,not nanning
Thank you, edited.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 06:12 AM   #9791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Why, what would be a feasible commute cost for someone who is worth income of 10 000 yuan a month or a housing subsidy of 3000 yuan a month?
Huizhou South-Shenzhen North trip time is from 29 to 40 minutes. Ticket price second class 16 yuan 5 jiao.
That makes 33 yuan for a daily return trip, and therefore 726 yuan over 22 working days of a month. Getting affordable?
What about the much bigger non-Masters-holding population that earn a fraction of 10,000 yuan a month? The average income for the general population is 4000 yuan a month. You can't expect them to spend almost 20% of their gross income on transport. I doubt the average drone would get a large or any housing subsidy anyway.

You can't have a valid commuting option that is affordable to only Masters Degree incomes.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 09:27 AM   #9792
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What is not dispute here is that the HSR system in China is in operation , it is working carrying millions of commuters to destinations nation wide and soon to be expanded into SE Asia.

If a commuter can afford to buy a ticket to the next stop on the HSR system just once then he can afford to travel by HSR.

How many people commute to work by HSR in China or any other country for that matter? The travel or leisure market is a growing segement of the HSR market. It's a major driver of tourism in more places .

The only stat that matters is the growing ridership of the HSR network. A simple claim of fact that people on monthly incomes of 4000 yuan or less cannot afford to travel by HSR on a daily or weekly basis may or may not be true bit are irrelevant.

Does anybody have any figures to show that the majority of trips via HSR are short haul as opposed to long haul across the country? Therein lies your evidence re the affordability of the HSR travel for most people.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 09:44 AM   #9793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
What about the much bigger non-Masters-holding population that earn a fraction of 10,000 yuan a month? The average income for the general population is 4000 yuan a month. You can't expect them to spend almost 20% of their gross income on transport. I doubt the average drone would get a large or any housing subsidy anyway.

You can't have a valid commuting option that is affordable to only Masters Degree incomes.
You cannot have a valid housing option that is affordable to only Masters Degree incomes. Or can you?
That´s from 2011:
http://www.shenzhen-standard.com/201...o-ten-percent/

In 2011:
Quote:
Apartments in central Futian were the most expensive wherein a two bedroom apartment will cost 5,000 yuan a month to rent.
There have to be a large number of people able to pay 5000 yuan a month rent and willing to do so - more such people than there are apartments in central Futian. Otherwise competition for tenants would drive down the rents and even people who could afford to pay 5000 yuan a month would not.
If there are, as established, a large number of people able and willing to pay 5000 yuan a month to rent an apartment in Futian, then there ought to be also a large number of people able and willing to pay substantial sums to commute so they do not have to pay 5000 yuan a month to rent apartment there.

What does an apartment in central Futian cost to rent in July 2015?
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Old July 31st, 2015, 11:25 AM   #9794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
You cannot have a valid housing option that is affordable to only Masters Degree incomes. Or can you?
That´s from 2011:
http://www.shenzhen-standard.com/201...o-ten-percent/

In 2011:

There have to be a large number of people able to pay 5000 yuan a month rent and willing to do so - more such people than there are apartments in central Futian. Otherwise competition for tenants would drive down the rents and even people who could afford to pay 5000 yuan a month would not.
If there are, as established, a large number of people able and willing to pay 5000 yuan a month to rent an apartment in Futian, then there ought to be also a large number of people able and willing to pay substantial sums to commute so they do not have to pay 5000 yuan a month to rent apartment there.

What does an apartment in central Futian cost to rent in July 2015?
The average worker does not live in Futian, just as the average worker cannot afford to live in Midtown Manhattan and London's City. If you look at a map of Shenzhen, you will quickly realize the city sprawls out and people take the many subway lines into the city from the outskirts.

In China, investors buy property not to earn a rental income, but to wait for the capital again. This is a unique market phenomenon peculiar to China. There has been a real estate boom over the past few years and prices have skyrocketed. Investors don't see the point of renting their units out cheap and won't mind having them sit empty when they make more than enough from the price rise.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 12:16 PM   #9795
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About central Futian: are there any recent updates concerning the progress of Longhua-Futian high speed railway and Futian Station? When shall Futian Station be opened for scheduled service?
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Old July 31st, 2015, 02:29 PM   #9796
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Shenyang-Dandong PDL enter trial operation phase, scheduled to open by the end of August

















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Old August 1st, 2015, 06:22 PM   #9797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Shenzhen's average income was 4000 yuan a month in 2013. Masters Degree holders jump up to almost 10,000 a month. These figures are still too low to make HSR commutes a feasible option for the masses.
It wouldn't have to be for the masses, but for people with well-paying jobs. Today the difference between HSR fares and other public transport is huge, it has been up to 10:1 for comparable distances. Long-term this will likely shrink to something like 2:1 (more or less depending on a number of factors, including relative level of subsidy). Prices for both metro and HSR can be expected to rise, but wages could rise more.

In particular compared with driving HSR commuting could be competitive pricewise. Langfang-Beijing South or Kunshan-Hongqiao/Shanghai is not very expensive.

There are other issues that today would be a greater problem. The frequency, particularly for smaller stations, is not always all that high. And while you could be on the metro in minutes (swipe the Yikatong or equivalent, take typically 2 escalators and 50m walk, and pass cursory security), for HSR today you need to preorder tickets, cross a gargantuan station, pass security, and be there a minimum of 15 minutes before the train leaves. That's acceptable for long-distance travel, but not well-suited for commuting.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 07:38 PM   #9798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
It wouldn't have to be for the masses, but for people with well-paying jobs. Today the difference between HSR fares and other public transport is huge, it has been up to 10:1 for comparable distances. Long-term this will likely shrink to something like 2:1 (more or less depending on a number of factors, including relative level of subsidy). Prices for both metro and HSR can be expected to rise, but wages could rise more.

In particular compared with driving HSR commuting could be competitive pricewise. Langfang-Beijing South or Kunshan-Hongqiao/Shanghai is not very expensive.

There are other issues that today would be a greater problem. The frequency, particularly for smaller stations, is not always all that high. And while you could be on the metro in minutes (swipe the Yikatong or equivalent, take typically 2 escalators and 50m walk, and pass cursory security), for HSR today you need to preorder tickets, cross a gargantuan station, pass security, and be there a minimum of 15 minutes before the train leaves. That's acceptable for long-distance travel, but not well-suited for commuting.
The well-to-do would be living in a luxury apartment in the city centre rather than commute from the next town over. They won't be able to get a house in a prairie by living further away in the highly-urbanized PRD region. That's why the HSR system is not designed to be integrated with the local transport smart cards for a seemless ride.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 08:06 PM   #9799
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Aerial view of Hefei-Fuzhou HSR Tongling Yangtze river bridge and Huangshan section



Original video: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTI5MDU2NjYwMA==.html
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 01:29 PM   #9800
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There are other issues that today would be a greater problem. The frequency, particularly for smaller stations, is not always all that high. And while you could be on the metro in minutes (swipe the Yikatong or equivalent, take typically 2 escalators and 50m walk, and pass cursory security), for HSR today you need to preorder tickets, cross a gargantuan station,
How gargantuan are stations like Shenzhen Pingshan, Guangmingcheng or Nanxiang North?
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