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Old October 17th, 2015, 10:07 PM   #10201
chornedsnorkack
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Are there some trains doing 300 km/h and some others 200 km/h? If not then your example is not a good one.
Ah - got it. You were talking a single train of 200 km/h in the way of many that are 300 km/h. Whereas Jilin-Hunchun is an example where a single train per hour at 200 km/h is the whole traffic of the line.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 10:20 PM   #10202
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Exactly, maybe I wasn't clear enough originally. That kind of speed differential is not common on dedicated high speed lines, but is a norm on regular railways with intercity trains, suburban trains and freight trains. Much lower line capacity under those conditions albeit in practice it is ameliorated somewhat by passing loops and priority running for some services over others.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 11:03 PM   #10203
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Exactly, maybe I wasn't clear enough originally. That kind of speed differential is not common on dedicated high speed lines, but is a norm on regular railways with intercity trains, suburban trains and freight trains. Much lower line capacity under those conditions
Does this apply to differences in maximum speed, or differences in average speed?
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Old October 17th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #10204
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Great pictures.
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Old October 18th, 2015, 06:56 AM   #10205
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You and keber do not know what exactly railroad capacity means. It means "...maximum number of trains that would be able to operate on a given railway infrastructure, during a specific time interval, given the operational conditions."

Let's say you have a 10km rail line. If you had a single train just sitting in the middle of the line it would have been using the whole capacity. If train is running at 10km/h it will take it 1 hour to "use" that stretch. If it is running at 100km/h it will take 6 minutes so you can have 9 more trains.

Something like this:

Quote:
My old post on this very thread about capacity... Anyhow.
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Old October 18th, 2015, 09:49 AM   #10206
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That's only if you introduce a time constraint. If you don't then both of your graphs will give an identical capacity.
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Old October 18th, 2015, 10:22 AM   #10207
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
With huge cities along that line, and Beijing and Shanghai being large themselves, I see a need to build duplicate lines, not just to create redundancy in case the other line goes down, but also to push the frequencies up. You can speed up the existing trains but the capacity that can be squeezed in won't be too significant.
Whatīs needed - parallel and separate line, or quadruple tracking along an existing line?
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Old October 18th, 2015, 02:04 PM   #10208
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why can't i post pics?
more pics by 铁路小亨:http://weibo.com/p/10016038925389593...od=wenzhangmod
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Old October 18th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #10209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Whatīs needed - parallel and separate line, or quadruple tracking along an existing line?
Redundancy in case the main line goes down, either by a dead train, a spill, or a fire.

A separate line would be safest.

Keep in mind the viaducts on the existing line may not be easily expandable to more tracks.
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Old October 18th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #10210
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Redundancy in case the main line goes down, either by a dead train, a spill, or a fire.

A separate line would be safest.
Yes, but also less efficient. If one line is shut at one point, the sections either side of the point as far as the nearest interconnections become dead ends.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 12:41 AM   #10211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That's only if you introduce a time constraint. If you don't then both of your graphs will give an identical capacity.
The "hour" in the graph is not a "time constraint", it is a time measure. Reread the definition of capacity given above, in the part where it says "during a specific time interval", and think deeply about it.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 08:29 AM   #10212
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Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
The "hour" in the graph is not a "time constraint", it is a time measure. Reread the definition of capacity given above, in the part where it says "during a specific time interval", and think deeply about it.
In that sense considering above graph, Beijing-Shanghai HSR has zero train capacity.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 12:23 PM   #10213
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Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
I see the new train says CRH-0503 but what type is it? I love that CRH is introducing new colors to their trains other than blue. I'm also glad they're staying with the overall white color scheme.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #10214
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I see the new train says CRH-0503 but what type is it? I love that CRH is introducing new colors to their trains other than blue. I'm also glad they're staying with the overall white color scheme.
there is a principle for the name of a train.

for example:CRH380A-2763.
CRH:China Railway High speed,now it is a brand like TGV or ICE.
380A:train code.
2763:2 represent the company,CSR Qingdao. and 1:BST,3:CNR Tangshan,4:CSR Puzhen,5:CNR Cangchun.
763:501~999 is the order of the train,501 is the very first CRH380A,so 2763 means that this train is made in CSR Qingdao and is the 263rd CRH380A.

another case,CRH380B-5761, this train is a 380B,made in CNR Changchun and 501 is the first 380B so this train is the 261st 380B.

so CRH0503,is just a test code,it has no name,made in CNR Changchun,it is the 3rd train of this model,maybe the 0501 and 0502 are used for some Destructive test.the other new train is CRH0207,it is made in CSR Qingdao and it is the 7th train.

Maybe a little complex.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:08 PM   #10215
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yes, but also less efficient. If one line is shut at one point, the sections either side of the point as far as the nearest interconnections become dead ends.
No. If one line goes down, use the other line. Looking at Guangzhou and Shenzhen as an example, G and C trains run on separate tracks, which offer redundancy in case one line goes down.

I don't think they would build a parallel line that also starts and finishes at Beijing South and Shanghai Hongqiao.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:48 PM   #10216
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
No. If one line goes down, use the other line. Looking at Guangzhou and Shenzhen as an example, G and C trains run on separate tracks, which offer redundancy in case one line goes down.
For example, if Guangzhou-Shenzhen line were to go down between Qingsheng Station and Humen Station, are there any cross-connections for a train to travel as far as Qingsheng and then divert to the C train line?
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Old October 19th, 2015, 08:01 PM   #10217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
For example, if Guangzhou-Shenzhen line were to go down between Qingsheng Station and Humen Station, are there any cross-connections for a train to travel as far as Qingsheng and then divert to the C train line?
You need to consider the passenger flow and whether the largest cities have sufficient redundancy. Those city pairs should get the first priority in any capacity increase. It is simple economics.

With that, it is clear Beijing to Shanghai can sustain a second, different rail line.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 10:39 PM   #10218
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
You need to consider the passenger flow and whether the largest cities have sufficient redundancy. Those city pairs should get the first priority in any capacity increase.
Which ones? Those which have sufficient redundancy, or those which donīt?
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Old October 20th, 2015, 12:10 AM   #10219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
there is a principle for the name of a train.

for example:CRH380A-2763.
CRH:China Railway High speed,now it is a brand like TGV or ICE.
380A:train code.
2763:2 represent the company,CSR Qingdao. and 1:BST,3:CNR Tangshan,4:CSR Puzhen,5:CNR Cangchun.
763:501~999 is the order of the train,501 is the very first CRH380A,so 2763 means that this train is made in CSR Qingdao and is the 263rd CRH380A.

another case,CRH380B-5761, this train is a 380B,made in CNR Changchun and 501 is the first 380B so this train is the 261st 380B.

so CRH0503,is just a test code,it has no name,made in CNR Changchun,it is the 3rd train of this model,maybe the 0501 and 0502 are used for some Destructive test.the other new train is CRH0207,it is made in CSR Qingdao and it is the 7th train.

Maybe a little complex.
Great explanation....still kinda confused as to why there is a new train with no designation. Also which is the CRH0207 you're talking about? I see the brown train and the CRH5 in the picture.
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Old October 20th, 2015, 09:20 AM   #10220
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which ones? Those which have sufficient redundancy, or those which donīt?
I gave one example already in my post. Would Beijing - Shanghai take less priority than a redundancy for small city pairs such as Jinan - Xuzhou? To frame the discussion back to what we have been discussing, it is a parallel line for Beijing - Shanghai to cater for growth.
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