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Old December 29th, 2009, 04:19 PM   #1021
typhoon_wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
A guy's exciting adventure in Wuhan Railway Station

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Wuhan Railway Station
11 Platforms 22 Lines
Construction Cost:14 billion RMB(about 1.4 billion euro)
I like these photos. Diesel-locos with High-speed EMUs. These photos may be the final sight of this in WuHan station!

Last edited by typhoon_wolf; January 9th, 2010 at 11:26 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 04:54 PM   #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acerola View Post
THese are based in the Shinkansen's E2-1000 series:
You can say so.

CRH2A is 4M4T verision of Japaness Shinkansen E2-1000.
CRH2A has top operating speed of 250km/h and a speed label painted as 200km/h: Tc+M+M+'T|+|T+'M+M+Tc

The #5 coach of CRH2A is combined by passenger part(2nd class) and dinning/bar part.
The #7 coach is desigined for 1st class. Most sets of CRH2A are arranged as this.

Some non-standard sets of CRH2A contains more 1st class coach, but the additional 1st class coach has more narrow row-distance, because the car-body of these coaches are originally designed for 2nd class. Someone calls this kind of 1st class coach as "fake 1st".

It is said that CRH2A can be de-coupled into 2 independent parts from #4 and #5 coach during the test period.

Because this set replaced 2 motor into 2 trailer coach, we can call it [E2-1000 -].

----------------------------------------

Then comes CRH2B, the 16 car version of CRH2A:
Tc+M+M+'T'+T+M+M+T|+|T+M+M+T+'T'+M+M+Tc

Actually, from hardware view, this is 2 set of coupled CRH2A. But the entire set just contains 2 driver-cabs.

#1, #2 and #3 coach of CRH2B are 1st class coach. True 1st class coach.
#5 coach is a full-part dinning/bar coach.

We cal call it [CRH2A x2].

----------------------------------------

CRH2C is 6M2T verision of CRH2A.
CRH2C has top operating speed of 330~350km/h and a speed label painted as 300km/h:
Tc+M+M+'M+M|+|'M+M+Tc

There are 2 sections of CRH2C. Current is section 1, ended to CRH2-090C. The CRH2-091C which has enhanced power system will start the 2nd section. At this section, the power parts of CRH2 will really suitable for 350km/h.

CRH2-061C reached 394.2km/h on ZhengZhou-Zion Passenger Railway after re-programed the power parts, just 2 days later then CRH3 on WuHan-GuangZhou line.
CRH2-061C is mass-production type, not a special-produced experimental set. The difference to other CRH2C is that CRH2-061C takes the experiment equipments and research crew.

According to some photos, it seems that CRH2C can be divided into 2 independent parts from coach #5 and #6.

We can call CRH2C as [CRH2A+](Sec 1) or [CRH2A++](Sec 2).

----------------------------------------

CRH2E is the sleeper version of CRH2B.
Coach #1 and #16 are 2nd seater coach.
Coach #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13, #14 and #15 are sleeper coach.
Each sleeper coach contains about 10 4-bed cabs.

Just call it [CRH2B+].

----------------------------------------

Finally, there will be CRH2-350, the most powerful member of CRH2 family. And it will also be a member of CRH-350 family.

CRH2-350 is still in plan. It is based on CRH2C(Sec 2) but modify a lot.
CRH2-350 will have 2 types of set: 6M2T and 14M2T.

In CRH-350 family, the entire parts of the train will suitable for 350km/h. And CRH-350 will be able to reach 380km/h during daily runing and 400+km/h in test.

Maybe [CRH2+++] is better.

----------------------------------------

Another 4XXkm/h train is also in the plan, but not a passenger train. It could be a 6 motor car set and with narrowed car body. This train may be used for super-high-speed research.

I have no certain idea how to call it. Maybe [Shinkansen 300X-CN](like Velaro-CN)?

Last edited by typhoon_wolf; December 29th, 2009 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Add and save contents.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 05:27 PM   #1023
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Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
You have distinguished yourself as an uninformed patronising fool. Take it from someone who has followed intently rail technology for decades that you are quite frankly making it all up in your head. You may believe you are being rational, you aren't. You may not wish to engage with me, but if you fill this thread with any more unjustified nonsense I will rebutt it for all to see.
Except everyone except yourself sees you are shadow-boxing, making your punches randomly, thereby making a fool of yourself.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 05:30 PM   #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The definitions are:

"Hard sleeper" - actually it is upholstered. No door between aisle and compartment, and 6 beds in a compartment, 3 on each side. The lower beds are most expensive and upper beds are cheapest.

"Soft sleeper" - compartments have doors, and 4 beds in compartment, 2 on each side. Again upper beds are cheaper.

"Deluxe soft sleeper" - only 2 beds in compartment. But those are lower and upper bed, not 2 beds both lower, On the side opposite of the beds there are chairs or something. Very few trains have these.

But I think that Beijing-Hong Kong trains do have deluxe soft sleeper. Do those stop in Changsha?

So again: does the second foto show a _deluxe soft sleeper_ then? and what is the price for a ticket in _that_ category? still around 280Yuan, therefore less than the 2hour express train??
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Old December 29th, 2009, 05:44 PM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The definitions are:

"Hard sleeper" - actually it is upholstered. No door between aisle and compartment, and 6 beds in a compartment, 3 on each side. The lower beds are most expensive and upper beds are cheapest.

"Soft sleeper" - compartments have doors, and 4 beds in compartment, 2 on each side. Again upper beds are cheaper.

"Deluxe soft sleeper" - only 2 beds in compartment. But those are lower and upper bed, not 2 beds both lower, On the side opposite of the beds there are chairs or something. Very few trains have these.

But I think that Beijing-Hong Kong trains do have deluxe soft sleeper. Do those stop in Changsha?
"'Hard sleeper' - actually it is upholstered. No door between aisle and compartment..."
Actually, there some "Hard sleeper" which have compartment-doors. These coaches belon to JinWen-Raily company(a private regional railway company which runs some business between JinHua & WenZhou in ZheJiang province).

"'Deluxe soft sleeper' - only 2 beds in compartment..."
There are 3 area of a "Deluxe soft sleeper". The center part do have Deluxe-decks. The compartments on the upper deck are 2-bed cabs. But the compartments on the lower deck are 4-bed cabs. The 2 side areas also contains 4-bed cabs.

And there are also "Deluxe hard sleeper". Both upper and lower decks of the center part contain 4-bed compartments, but the 2 side parts contain 6-bed compartments.

ChangSha is the capital of HuNan province and ChangSha station is a large station on the previous line. This train must stop at ChangSha. But I don't think it contain Deluxe sleepers.

Last edited by typhoon_wolf; December 29th, 2009 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Correct. English is not my native language.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #1026
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Originally Posted by Buddy Holly View Post
Thus the benefits of this OMG HIGH SPEED RAIL are enjoyed only by those those who are affluent enough to afford it.

It's a price increase of some 500% - hardly something that "isn't a problem."
there's still the bus which is generally cheaper, since there's competition, and even the ultra poor in China can save the 55RMB (about 4 hours' wages) over the course of a month to go somewhere if they really have to do it. Most people in China have substantial savings, and it is very rare that someone doesn't have savings or can't ask for money from their family.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #1027
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"People are praising China because the country and its leadership deserve praise. Others who arn't mostly either don't know any better, are paid to be bashers, or are simply insecure that their long stood stereotypical assumptions of which they've gathered from their narrow source of information media are being turned upside down and smacked back into their face."

No, most (not all, but most) people praising China -- particularly on this forum where chest-thumping is the norm -- are Sinophiles; those who romanticize the Chinese (or "the east" in general); Chinese nationalists (apparently it's acceptable for Chinese to be hypernationalist, while everyone else should never utter a peep of pride); and counter- or anti-Americans, self-loathing Europeans or Americans, commonly, but also Asians who dislike or simply hate the United States (usually wallowing in ignorance of it), who feel "the west" is tainted by association, and who fervently hope for their pipe dream of a new dawn of Chinese hegemony for little other reason than to see someone other than the United States at the "top of the heap"; and people who are generally lacking an economic clue.

In other words, the people doing it here are the same kinds of people doing it most everywhere else.

The "west" doesn't have a system like this not because it doesn't have the technology (a ridiculous, mind-bogglingly ignorant, and borderline racist assertion), but because there is no justificationf or it; it doesn't NEED it. And in the west, a transportation system has to make economic and financial sense - which means it has to be a commercially viable alternative to EXISTING systems. It may push the envelope of sense, but it has to make _some_ sense in the first place.

While the construction effort is impressive, this system makes neither economic nor financial sense without a government umbrella and China's beneficial position as a late adopter of technology developed elsewhere and brought in by outsiders. (Who then receive little credit domestically; yes, China is always, always, always out to "show" the world something.) In "the west" this would be a financial boondoggle, but it doesn't matter because at the moment China has the money to spend (note that having the money to spend is different than being in a position in which spending it is wise, and this is a caution China is unwisely ignoring) in order to keep employment up and to keep the people happy with superlatives, even if in the end, by simple economic measures, they are simply playing catch-up to capacity that has existed in "the west" for ages. (And so they can visit forums like this one and talk about how amazing their new train system is, despite the fact that no one is in a massive new train system race with them.)

That there will always be money for massive new projects will not always be the case. In fact, it is already is increasingly not the case, and the bubble from this development (much of which goes to waste) continues to grow. Beat your chests and talk about the inferiority of "the west" while you can. You've got less than a decade of that kind of fun before a sobering reality begins to set in.

Last edited by RathaPM; December 29th, 2009 at 08:59 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #1028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon_wolf View Post
ChangSha is the capital of HuNan province and ChangSha station is a large station on the previous line. This train must stop at ChangSha. But I don't think it contain Deluxe sleepers.
It turns out it does.

Train T97 departs Beijing once in two days 13:08, stopping in Zhengzhou arrives in Wuchang 23:16, departs 23:33, arrives in Changsha 3:00 2nd day, departs 3:06, arrives in Guangzhou 10:10, departs 11:03, arrives 12:56 in Hung Hom. T98 departs Hung Hom 15:15, arrives in Guangzhou 17:09, departs 18:05, arrives in Changsha 1:07 second day, departs 1:13, arrives in Wuchang 4:30, departs 4:42, with stop in Zhengzhou arrives in Beijing 14:51.

And it does contain a deluxe soft sleeper car.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #1029
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I think the best improvement of the CHR2 from the E2-1000 is the painting. The chinese trains have nice painting, but the original japanese is ugly as hell. Chinese have better aestetic sense than the japanese.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danchun View Post

Is this real

Loving high speed rails.... I am glad China picked this option for passenger traffic hence we can see these wonders
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Old December 29th, 2009, 09:48 PM   #1031
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20km of track in just one high speed rail depot.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 10:14 PM   #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papagei View Post
Wheels and Axles are limited by materials used and in China they don´t have better steel than in Germany or Japan.
I'm not sure about their rail industry, but certainly Chinese steel makers did deliver something new for the construction of the Olympic stadium.

Quote:
If you want to run more than 300 km/h in an economically useful and safely manner you have to develop different bogies with different damping systems. We´ll see what the future will bring, wether it is maglev of different bogies. But actual technology nowhere will be in broad service at 350 km/h. Many countries had to learn that. Think of Spain which cancled their 350 km/h. Japan who cancled Fastech 360 (360 km/h intended) or France which cancled 360 km/h.
Hmm, someone should tell Alstom [1], Siemens [2], Talgo [3] and Bombardier [4] that they are wasting their time or telling porkies.

1 - http://www.transport.alstom.com/home...ical/products/

AGV is or has been marketed to potential rival operators to Eurostar as offering a 2 hour London to Paris time. That means 360km/h on LGV Nord. In fact, AGV does have new bogies which performed far better than expected on the record runs.

2 - Siemens now market the Velaro as being 360km/h capable: http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mobi...ins/velaro.htm

3 - http://www.elperiodico.com/default.a...seccio_PK=1021

4 - http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/s...ed-trains.html
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Old December 30th, 2009, 03:57 AM   #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acerola View Post
I think the best improvement of the CHR2 from the E2-1000 is the painting. The chinese trains have nice painting, but the original japanese is ugly as hell. Chinese have better aestetic sense than the japanese.
No. Either you are Chinese, or you've never actually been to China.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 04:00 AM   #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acerola View Post
I think the best improvement of the CHR2 from the E2-1000 is the painting. The chinese trains have nice painting, but the original japanese is ugly as hell. Chinese have better aestetic sense than the japanese.
Being Chinese, I would have to disagree. Chinese trains and other transportation facilities are still behind the times. The Chinese govt. still needs to get a sense of modern marketing techniques, such as the fonts and colour schemes they use on buildings, trains, billboards. It will change!
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Old December 30th, 2009, 04:57 AM   #1035
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Kind of off topic and this being a train lovers dream, it would be interesting if Japanese train manufactures (Hitachi, Kawasaki, Kinki Sharyo and Nippon Sharyo) would be willing to sell the Shinkansen 500系 to MOR in the future and use it on the 350km/h lines. It would of been nice to see them mass produced and used on these long distance lines. I know that the 500系 was not produced in large numbers due to the cost in Japan (China does have the money), but with Japanese railway corporations moving towards the E5 wouldn't it make sense to try and sell the 500系 overseas? I don't know much about the train deals between the MOR and manufactures but what was the reason that only made the E2 available? Sorry for going off topic.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 08:04 AM   #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Holly View Post
Thus the benefits of this OMG HIGH SPEED RAIL are enjoyed only by those those who are affluent enough to afford it.

It's a price increase of some 500% - hardly something that "isn't a problem."
Actually, the benefits are enjoyed by those taking the regular trains too, because the HSR reduces overloading on the non-HSR line (a completely different set of tracks), increases capacity, and allows the slower trains to run faster because the line isn't as overcrowded as before (fewer trains means fewer delays).
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Old December 30th, 2009, 09:13 AM   #1037
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11yuan for a long journey? maybe that's ten years ago
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Old December 30th, 2009, 09:33 AM   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlay View Post
Here's a video.Amazing.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQxMjE5ODg4.html

[IMG]http://i47.************/spc02c.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i49.************/2edazgp.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i47.************/20zzdyb.jpg[/IMG]
wow, nice video
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Old December 30th, 2009, 11:28 AM   #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozumi 300 View Post
Kind of off topic and this being a train lovers dream, it would be interesting if Japanese train manufactures (Hitachi, Kawasaki, Kinki Sharyo and Nippon Sharyo) would be willing to sell the Shinkansen 500系 to MOR in the future and use it on the 350km/h lines. It would of been nice to see them mass produced and used on these long distance lines. I know that the 500系 was not produced in large numbers due to the cost in Japan (China does have the money), but with Japanese railway corporations moving towards the E5 wouldn't it make sense to try and sell the 500系 overseas? I don't know much about the train deals between the MOR and manufactures but what was the reason that only made the E2 available? Sorry for going off topic.
The 500 was expensive but didn't provide the value for money. Obviously expensive is fine if you can afford it as long as it still provides value for money, but it was rightly viewed that a cheaper more cost effective option could be delivered in the 700. I think there were all sorts of useful/interesting technological things in the 500, like the round construction of the cars, that proved unnecessary in use, hence the 700 being of a squarer shape.

I don't think they will ever market the 500, it is too out of date now, being as it is how quickly Japan moves on with train technology (20 year vehicle life-cycle as opposed to 30 years nearly everywhere else), and it wouldn't help development costs on new vehicles for their own network.

I would imagine more Japanese trains were faesably available, after all the 700 went to Taiwan, nonetheless the E2 is a fine option. Perhaps it is more/less modular to allow the tinkering with the number of motored cars that has subsequently taken place? Also the 700 I believe has passive provision for tilt (not that it could be retro fitted to models without it) and this would have provided no benefit to China who are mainly building better aligned routes than the Shinkansen are.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 11:38 AM   #1040
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Actually, the benefits are enjoyed by those taking the regular trains too, because the HSR reduces overloading on the non-HSR line (a completely different set of tracks), increases capacity, and allows the slower trains to run faster because the line isn't as overcrowded as before (fewer trains means fewer delays).
And fewer differences in performance of trains means greater efficiency.
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