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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:14 AM   #10481
luhai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Why do most (?) companies allow it? Is it somehow cheaper to give extra money instead of distributing the work to fewer employees temporarily?
Well, the alternative is to let unused vacation expire without compensation. In that case, it is seen as the same as not offering any vacation at all and perceived to have lower quality benefits package (since if someone have 3 weeks of unused vacation, they essentially have almost 1 extra month of pay per year). Some companies are nice enough to offer sponsored company trips as team building events, but those are few in numbers.

United States actually have a similar problem but as severe as China, which people does not take vacation they accure. And some companies in the US forces employee to burn their vacations by having company shutdowns around Christmas time when business is slow anyways.

Last edited by luhai; December 14th, 2015 at 08:20 AM.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:39 AM   #10482
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Nanning—Baise section(223km,7 stations) of Nanning—Kunming HSR opened on December 11,2015. Operational speed is 200km/h in the near term(designed speed 250km/h).
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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:57 AM   #10483
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when I see people trying to explain reality from graphs using stats it tells me they have little understanding of reality .

Think of China as a three tier society with a small wealthy elite as the first tier the largest middle class in the world as a second tier the remainder as the third tier, roughly 1%, 20% and 79% or so. How rich the country is depends on where you are, the urban areas are more second world than third and completely third world countries don't need first world transportation systems.

In short people living outside of China little understand the country so resort to abstract data to demonsrrate their knowledge of the place which actually has the opposite effect.

I often hear people referring to China as a country of poor, uneducated peasants lving on a dollar a day (Those who have never been tp the place) when in reality education in China is mandatory and free up to year nine. Nowhere is education taken more seriously as an instrument of social mobility than in the land of Confucious. At any one time they have more people enrolled at every level of education than any other country. The majoirty of people live in cities not villages and they don't survive on a dollar at day either.

In fairnesss it was much like the former when I first arrived three decades ago, while the reality has changed the perception hasn't.

" The only real wisdom in the world comes from actual firt hand experience."
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Old December 14th, 2015, 09:50 AM   #10484
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I often hear people referring to China as a country of poor, uneducated peasants lving on a dollar a day (Those who have never been tp the place) when in reality education in China is mandatory and free up to year nine. Nowhere is education taken more seriously as an instrument of social mobility than in the land of Confucious. At any one time they have more people enrolled at every level of education than any other country.
Is education also free for hukou-less second children and children of migrants?
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Old December 14th, 2015, 02:16 PM   #10485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
when I see people trying to explain reality from graphs using stats it tells me they have little understanding of reality .

Think of China as a three tier society with a small wealthy elite as the first tier the largest middle class in the world as a second tier the remainder as the third tier, roughly 1%, 20% and 79% or so. How rich the country is depends on where you are, the urban areas are more second world than third and completely third world countries don't need first world transportation systems.

In short people living outside of China little understand the country so resort to abstract data to demonsrrate their knowledge of the place which actually has the opposite effect.

I often hear people referring to China as a country of poor, uneducated peasants lving on a dollar a day (Those who have never been tp the place) when in reality education in China is mandatory and free up to year nine. Nowhere is education taken more seriously as an instrument of social mobility than in the land of Confucious. At any one time they have more people enrolled at every level of education than any other country. The majoirty of people live in cities not villages and they don't survive on a dollar at day either.

In fairnesss it was much like the former when I first arrived three decades ago, while the reality has changed the perception hasn't.

" The only real wisdom in the world comes from actual firt hand experience."

SEEING IS BELIEVING.

Let them think what they think.

Last edited by BEE2; December 14th, 2015 at 03:09 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:00 PM   #10486
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Well, the alternative is to let unused vacation expire without compensation. In that case, it is seen as the same as not offering any vacation at all and perceived to have lower quality benefits package (since if someone have 3 weeks of unused vacation, they essentially have almost 1 extra month of pay per year). Some companies are nice enough to offer sponsored company trips as team building events, but those are few in numbers.
The other alternative is to force everybody to take their vacations in full. This is what most companies in Switzerland do including mine (I think min 2 weeks is also mandatory by law). So I have 5 weeks off whether I want them or not. I'm not crying about that one.

As for company trips one Chinese company (forgot which one) recently sponsored a trip to Paris and Nice for their entire workforce of several thousand people. That was a bit funny from our perspective.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #10487
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Another general note: many of us who comment here but don't live in China do have a fair knowledge of the place (much better than the average in the West) from travel, reading and speaking with Chinese abroad. Sure, it's not the same as living somewhere in inland China but remember that outside perspective is sometimes good to have. Difficult to evaluate yourself if you've never been elsewhere. Refers to other countries as well obviously.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 01:40 AM   #10488
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Is education also free for hukou-less second children and children of migrants?
Everyone has hukou in China, even migrant Children. The issue is, their hukou is attach to where they are born and benifits (healthcare and education support) decreased as they move away from their villiage, township, city, province. (I believe after the kast round of reforms, benifits is shared across townships. Which lead to unintended effect of people enroll in better quality schools in urban township proper and had student communte kilometers to go to those schools instead of a school in their villiage.) Similar to how people need to pay out of state tuition, except moving from on place of residence to another is very elaborate and time consuming process. So people either take kids with them and attend private school instead. (they often has lower qualify than publuc schools), or leave the kid behind in the home village or township and attends public school there Those school are free, though some like to change extra activity fees or "donations". Both are illegal, but schools often still do it due to either under funding or just plain corruption.

Last edited by luhai; December 15th, 2015 at 02:11 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 01:43 AM   #10489
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The other alternative is to force everybody to take their vacations in full. This is what most companies in Switzerland do including mine (I think min 2 weeks is also mandatory by law). So I have 5 weeks off whether I want them or not. I'm not crying about that one.

As for company trips one Chinese company (forgot which one) recently sponsored a trip to Paris and Nice for their entire workforce of several thousand people. That was a bit funny from our perspective.
China being China, if government forces people take vacation in full rather take the money. It's very likely people will still work when their are supposed to be on vacation, and will instead take the money under the table (and un taxed).

On the trip to Nice, that's actually more common can you think, though it more often to go to a locaoe in China. (My Aunt's company did take the entire engineering team to Germany (Munich, Berlin, some castles) for free after completetion of a big project, but that's only ~50 people, so it didn't make the news).

Last edited by luhai; December 15th, 2015 at 02:02 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 07:59 AM   #10490
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Originally Posted by luhai View Post
benifits (healthcare and education support) decreased as they move away from their villiage, township, city, province. (I believe after the kast round of reforms, benifits is shared across townships. Which lead to unintended effect of people enroll in better quality schools in urban township proper and had student communte kilometers to go to those schools instead of a school in their villiage.)
Are any HSR stations well located (and scheduled) to carry significant loads of schoolchildren commuting?
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Old December 15th, 2015, 10:20 AM   #10491
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Are any HSR stations well located (and scheduled) to carry significant loads of schoolchildren commuting?
Nope, remember villages to townships. Many of these only got electricity 20 years ago, and paved roads 10 years ago. the current focus is to get school buses for these children, so they don't have to ride on overloaded tractors and trucks such these. In fact, a few years ago China donated some school buses to Macedonia as part of goodwill diplomacy, and at the same time there was a profile accident of these trucks and there was a huge backlash on the internet saying those bus should've gone to Chinese children instead.





These are being replace by school buses such as these.





In case you don't know what a village or township means.

A village looks like this, it typically houses 50 to 200 household that farms the nearby lands. Larger villages will sport an elementary school. Villages governments are informal, and interestingly most are elected by the entire village.



This is a township, it's basically a small town with a single main street that near by villager will gather for market days once or twice a month. It typically has stuff like fertilizer/seed shop, cellphone shop, a small hospital and a middle school. Township is also the lowest level of formal government in China. Some town/townships on in the coastal region often are industrial based, but often specialize in one product. For example, a town that make only socks, millions of them each year and exports them worldwide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towns_...ublic_of_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsh...ublic_of_China

Going one level up is rural county seats, which are basically the urban center of a rural county. However, under Chinese definition, these are not considered cities. They will typically have at least one high school, a hub for long distances transportation (typically buses and slow trains), hospital that can offers most services and operations, shopping center with fancier items, some industry for urban employment etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counti...ublic_of_China



Some county seat can be converted into a city (and the county into a county level city) once they are deemed urbanized, and many of these cities do have HSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County-level_city

In any case, this is off topic. mods, feel free to move these posts to China sub-forum. However, I feel some basic background knowledge is needed here. Having HSR between a ~50 household village to a ~1500 household township is bit absurd.
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Last edited by luhai; December 15th, 2015 at 11:09 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 10:49 AM   #10492
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Nope, remember villages to townships.
In case you don't know what a village or township means.

A village looks like this, it typically houses 50 to 200 household that farms the nearby lands. Larger villages will sport an elementary school.

This is a township, it's basically a small town with a single main street that near by villager will gather for market days once or twice a month.
No. Villages are in townships, unless they are in towns or subdistricts.
For example, the Municipality of Shanghai consists of 14 districts and 1 county (Chongming)
These consist of 99 subdistricts, 109 towns and 2 townships.
And these consist of 3640 neighbourhoods and 1722 villages.
1722 villages in Shanghai. How do the inhabitants of these villages commute? Like, are stations of Nanxiang North and Anting North located in neighbourhoods, or in villages?
Huaxi is a village, not a neighbourhood. With 50 000 inhabitants. Apparently no rail station, though.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 11:54 AM   #10493
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No. Villages are in townships, unless they are in towns or subdistricts.
For example, the Municipality of Shanghai consists of 14 districts and 1 county (Chongming)
These consist of 99 subdistricts, 109 towns and 2 townships.
And these consist of 3640 neighbourhoods and 1722 villages.
1722 villages in Shanghai. How do the inhabitants of these villages commute? Like, are stations of Nanxiang North and Anting North located in neighbourhoods, or in villages?
Huaxi is a village, not a neighbourhood. With 50 000 inhabitants. Apparently no rail station, though.
You need to distinguish political boundaries and the actual township itself. Politically a township includes all villages boundaries (which are typically the villages that goes to market in that township), however the actual market town itself is small. For example, Sanxi township (note: due to the status of google in china, the map label locations are inaccurate vs sat image. In this region, the label is offset ~300 meters to north of its actual location.) with its market town at Wujiawan/Sanxicun (also note the track field for the school there), and small villages that near by connected a primative roads. Wujiawan/Sanxicun has access to 114 country road, then eventually connects to S103 and then G42. Which mean the farmer in those villages can obtain goods from outside that way and sell it produce there to be transported outside. Also notice, the farms in the area. They are farmer, even though they reside officially in the City of Chongqing, in it Wushan county, 1 of 17. Yet, they do not commute to the city of Chongqing. If they find work in Chongqing (or more likely the county seat of Wushan, Wuxia [also note, the county is the entire blog land in the region, while the county seat is the bit of buildings by the river. same logic applies to the townships] near by), they will go to Chongqing or Wushan and wishes they'll never need to move back. Because to move back, it mean they failed at city life, to move back, it mean they will once again live off the land with their face toward the dusty earth and their backs toward the blazing sun.

---

Urban village of the Shanghai or any urban village is China is an artifact of bad policy in China in handling urban sprawl. The only reason they are called a village and not a neighbourhoods is due to special treatment of rural property rights compared to urban one. (The Urban villages of Beijing is notorious for this in providing ant tribe housing)

----

Huaxi is a village, a special showcase one to be specially. It only have 2000 villager living in a artificial communist paradise. The rest are migrant worker that does not officially reside in the said paradise, and the relationship is no different than the Emiratis of Dubai vs. its foreign workers. It would get a rail station if the Wu dynasty of that rule that village can pull enough strings to make the the showcase even showier, it won't get one if the power-at-be realized the showcase is actually an embarrassment.


------

In any the system in China is different, and how cities are planned and administed are different as well. But Chinese people, their system is normal and ours is weird. I would have a hard time explaining the relationship between Naperville, Du Page Country, The City of Chicago (Chicago vs Cook Country would be fun to explain) and the State of Illinois to my relatives in China. Or how The City of Chicago is a good place to work, to shop and find entertainment, but a terrible place to live and raise children. Or how I could put up with commute an hour and half commuting to Chicago (or the fact that people would actually commute from Indiana, entirely different state*), even though Naperville is actually more expansive to live compare the city itself. Those things are very difficult to explain unless you actually experience it yourself. *Yes there people live in hebei and commute to Beijing or live in Jiangsu and commute to Shanghai, but they do it for entirely different reasons, their prices out of market and force to take that option. Hell, my cousin turned down free company housing in Tongzhou, and would rather actually pay expensive rent to live in inner Beijing.


btw, I think we're really going off topic here, perhaps these should be moved to China urbanization thread.

Last edited by luhai; December 15th, 2015 at 12:35 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 01:45 PM   #10494
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Having HSR between a ~50 household village to a ~1500 household township is bit absurd.
How is "HSR" defined in China?
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Old December 15th, 2015, 03:53 PM   #10495
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
How is "HSR" defined in China?
design speed >=250km/h
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Old December 15th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #10496
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design speed >=250km/h
Then yes - HSR at that speed should better have somewhat bigger destinations.
For comparison, stations of Tohoku Shinkansen, operating speed 320 km/h:
Tokyo - 0 - Tokyo city - 13 185 000 - 2188
Ueno - 3,6 - Tokyo city - 13 185 000 - 2188
Omiya - 31,3 - Saitama city - 1 232 000 - 217
Oyama - 80,6 - Oyama city - 166 000 - 172
Utsunomiya - 109,0 - Utsunomiya city - 518 000 - 417
Nasu-Shiobara - 152,4 - Nasushiobara city - 117 000 - 593
Shin-Shirakawa - 178,4 - Nishigo village - 19 800 - 192
Koriyama - 213,9 - Koriyama city - 329 000 - 757
Fukushima - 255,1 - Fukushima city - 290 000 - 746
Shiroishi-Zao - 286,2 - Shiroishi city - 35 600 - 286
Sendai - 325,4 - Sendai city - 1 063 000 - 788
Furukawa - 363,8 - Osaki city - 134 000 - 797
Kurikoma-Kogen - 385,7 - Kurihara city - 70 400 - 805
Ichinoseki - 406,3 - Ichinoseki city - 120 000 - 1256
Mizusawa-Esashi - 413,3 - Oshu city - 119 000 - 383
Kitakami - 448,6 - Kitakami city - 93 300 - 438
Shin-Hanamaki - 463,1 - Hanamaki city - 97 600 - 908
Morioka - 496,5 - Morioka city - 299 000 - 886
Iwate-Numakunai - 527,6 - Iwate town - 14 100 - 361
Ninohe - 562,2 - Ninohe city - 28 500 - 420
Hachinohe - 593,1 - Hachinohe city - 231 000 - 305
Shichinohe-Towada - 628,2 - Shichinohe town - 16 300 - 337
Shin-Aomori - 674,9 - Aomori city - 288 000 - 825

Nishigo is a village. Iwate and Shichinohe are towns but have even smaller populations. And over the 361 square km of Iwate town, how many of the 14 000 inhabitants actually live near Iwate-Numakunai station?
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Old December 15th, 2015, 07:18 PM   #10497
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South China Sea is not..... there is Chinese navy presence there in Hainan
The Chinese navy presence in the South China Sea has nothing to do with stability...
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Old December 15th, 2015, 07:29 PM   #10498
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Originally Posted by luhai View Post
Everyone has hukou in China, even migrant Children. The issue is, their hukou is attach to where they are born and benifits (healthcare and education support) decreased as they move away from their villiage, township, city, province. (I believe after the kast round of reforms, benifits is shared across townships. Which lead to unintended effect of people enroll in better quality schools in urban township proper and had student communte kilometers to go to those schools instead of a school in their villiage.) Similar to how people need to pay out of state tuition, except moving from on place of residence to another is very elaborate and time consuming process. So people either take kids with them and attend private school instead. (they often has lower qualify than publuc schools), or leave the kid behind in the home village or township and attends public school there Those school are free, though some like to change extra activity fees or "donations". Both are illegal, but schools often still do it due to either under funding or just plain corruption.
I wouldn't say everyone. Border region disputed populations, "illegal" children in violation of the one child policy (who can't afford fines), etc. obviously don't have hukous. So really they don't exist as far as legality is concerned. IMO the hukou system is designed to keep migrant workers migrating, so 80 million people and their families can't just move to the east provinces and settle down. Has its ethical drawbacks, but benefits the economy.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 07:59 PM   #10499
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Newly Designed CRH 2E sleeper train start to serve on Beijing-Shanghai Route

http://news.xinhuanet.com/tech/2015-...1117470520.htm (in chinese)

13 sleeping berths can be transformed to seats







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Old December 15th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #10500
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Chinese system of organising cities, towns and villages is a bit strange to our eyes, but it's not incomprehensible if you invest a bit of time reading about it.

The American one is weird too with there being no villages at all and even 10 houses being called a town.
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