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Old January 3rd, 2010, 05:07 AM   #1081
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DO NOT POST CRAPPY PROPAGANDA.

THIS IS A RAILWAY BOARD !
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #1082
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Impressive!

Which services are offered on this route? Only Wuhan - Ghuangzhou, or also through services to other places in China?

Which types of high speed train are used? I mostly see this Shinkansen-style train (CHR-2?)... are Siemens trains (Velaro / CHR-3) also used?
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #1083
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DO NOT POST CRAPPY PROPAGANDA.

THIS IS A RAILWAY BOARD !
It's deleted
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:10 AM   #1084
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you shouldn't have bothered with that banned guy anyway

Thanks for the pictures
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:48 PM   #1085
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But the railway park WAS relevant to a railway board.

Changsha is a big city. Almost 12 000 square km, and over 6 million inhabitants.

Almost half the size of Belgium, and more than half the population.

Changsha plainly needs a dense rail network.

Could someone show a map of Changsha, depicting the old Wugan-Guangzhou railway, the new high-speed Wuguang railway, the under construction Changsha-Hangzhou high-speed railway, branch lines, railway park, metro lines, tram lines and stations?
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Old January 6th, 2010, 05:54 PM   #1086
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And the Bombardier designed CRH-1 along with the Alstom designed CRH-5 train sets. Both are rated at 250km/h however. So you probably won't see them on 350kph lines.

Bombardier is in the process of delivering the Zefrio 380 to the CRH network.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #1087
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Originally Posted by RathaPM View Post
"People are praising China because the country and its leadership deserve praise. Others who arn't mostly either don't know any better, are paid to be bashers, or are simply insecure that their long stood stereotypical assumptions of which they've gathered from their narrow source of information media are being turned upside down and smacked back into their face."

No, most (not all, but most) people praising China -- particularly on this forum where chest-thumping is the norm -- are Sinophiles; those who romanticize the Chinese (or "the east" in general); Chinese nationalists (apparently it's acceptable for Chinese to be hypernationalist, while everyone else should never utter a peep of pride); and counter- or anti-Americans, self-loathing Europeans or Americans, commonly, but also Asians who dislike or simply hate the United States (usually wallowing in ignorance of it), who feel "the west" is tainted by association, and who fervently hope for their pipe dream of a new dawn of Chinese hegemony for little other reason than to see someone other than the United States at the "top of the heap"; and people who are generally lacking an economic clue.

In other words, the people doing it here are the same kinds of people doing it most everywhere else.

The "west" doesn't have a system like this not because it doesn't have the technology (a ridiculous, mind-bogglingly ignorant, and borderline racist assertion), but because there is no justificationf or it; it doesn't NEED it. And in the west, a transportation system has to make economic and financial sense - which means it has to be a commercially viable alternative to EXISTING systems. It may push the envelope of sense, but it has to make _some_ sense in the first place.

While the construction effort is impressive, this system makes neither economic nor financial sense without a government umbrella and China's beneficial position as a late adopter of technology developed elsewhere and brought in by outsiders. (Who then receive little credit domestically; yes, China is always, always, always out to "show" the world something.) In "the west" this would be a financial boondoggle, but it doesn't matter because at the moment China has the money to spend (note that having the money to spend is different than being in a position in which spending it is wise, and this is a caution China is unwisely ignoring) in order to keep employment up and to keep the people happy with superlatives, even if in the end, by simple economic measures, they are simply playing catch-up to capacity that has existed in "the west" for ages. (And so they can visit forums like this one and talk about how amazing their new train system is, despite the fact that no one is in a massive new train system race with them.)

That there will always be money for massive new projects will not always be the case. In fact, it is already is increasingly not the case, and the bubble from this development (much of which goes to waste) continues to grow. Beat your chests and talk about the inferiority of "the west" while you can. You've got less than a decade of that kind of fun before a sobering reality begins to set in.
That is rubbish that you talked about. In Japan, which has 125 million population, thy have their extensive highspeed railway. Now, in China, they have 10 times the population. China does need their extensive highspeed railway, as a traveling alternative to driving their own cars. The time saving and energy saving from this highspeed railway project is great, and China is doing a big favor to itself and to the whole world. This project is enabling further economic development in many areas of China. This is not a project for show, but for sound economic sense.
It is interesting to see that, whenever China does something, whether it is building a highway, subway or railway, some western bigots always bash China. So it is okay for the US to build their extensive highway system and Japan to build its highspeed railway, and somehow China should not do it to serve its 1.3 billion people? Very often these western pundits, who should mind their own business in the first place, are embarrassed by their wrong predictions.

Last edited by maldini; January 6th, 2010 at 11:27 PM.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:11 AM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
That is rubbish that you talked about. In Japan, which has 125 million population, thy have their extensive highspeed railway. Now, in China, they have 10 times the population. China does need their extensive highspeed railway, as a traveling alternative to driving their own cars. The time saving and energy saving from this highspeed railway project is great, and China is doing a big favor to itself and to the whole world. This project is enabling further economic development in many areas of China. This is not a project for show, but for sound economic sense.
Dude, oil is still cheeper than high speed rail! That's the only point many of us have made.

Quote:
It is interesting to see that, whenever China does something, whether it is building a highway, subway or railway, some western bigots always bash China. So it is okay for the US to build their extensive highway system and Japan to build its highspeed railway, and somehow China should not do it to serve its 1.3 billion people? Very often these western pundits, who should mind their own business in the first place, are embarrassed by their wrong predictions.
Now there is A LOT of Chinese nationalism floating around here too, so don't blame westerns for speaking off the cuff. You guys are just as guilty.

Last edited by Onn; January 7th, 2010 at 01:18 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #1089
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Dude, oil is still cheeper than high speed rail! That's the only point many of us have made.
But that is simply false. And that is a point widely recognized now-a-days and one made frequently on this forum. "many of you" have simply persisted in a falsehood, and persisting in a falsehood aint making no point! Of course one can always count on the fundamentalists from the US to cling to the wackiest of ideas, so this is nothing of surprise...
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #1090
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
But that is simply false. And that is a point widely recognized now-a-days and one made frequently on this forum. "many of you" have simply persisted in a falsehood, and persisting in a falsehood aint making no point! Of course one can always count on the fundamentalists from the US to cling to the wackiest of ideas, so this is nothing of surprise...
Ummm yeah! A ticket from San Francisco to LA here on high-speed rail is going to cost over 100 dollars, but only 30 some dollars in gas! Get a clue!
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:28 AM   #1091
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Now there is A LOT of Chinese nationalism floating around here too, so don't blame westerns for speaking off the cuff. You guys are just as guilty.
Do movies speak off the cuff?? interesting, had never known, got to rent a western to find out myself....

And what's Chinese nationalism have to do with the fact that it is a good idea to expand the high speed rail network in China??? When you come out here, please do leave your primitive ideological rantings at home in the US, together with creationism and such, would you? Thanks for your consideration.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:30 AM   #1092
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Do movies speak off the cuff?? interesting, had never known, got to rent a western to find out myself....

And what's Chinese nationalism have to do with the fact that it is a good idea to expand the high speed rail network in China??? When you come out here, please do leave your primitive ideological rantings at home in the US, together with creationism and such, would you? Thanks for your consideration.
What? This is exactly what I mean! Somehow Creationism has suddenly become a stupid western idea, can't have any religious beliefs in China! Nope.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:33 AM   #1093
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Ummm yeah! A ticket from San Francisco to LA here on high-speed rail is going to cost over 100 dollars, but only 30 some dollars in gas! Get a clue!
Only because the price of gas in the States does not properly reflect the scarcity and other features (such as its detrimental effect to the overall well-being of the environment) of that substance. It's a skewed market. Besides, the prices do not reflect on the cost of energy alone, but also the level of service: you get none driving in your car, but you have leisure on the train and get served with food, drinks, and all.

But of course, all of that is probably just too complicated for you, and unfortunately still for the majority of Americans. Too bad for the world.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:34 AM   #1094
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Originally Posted by Onn View Post
What? This is exactly what I mean! Somehow Creationism has suddenly become a stupid western idea, can't have any religious beliefs in China! Nope.
don't confuse american savageness with "western" ideas, please. You embarrass me.

Last edited by Ariel74; January 7th, 2010 at 01:40 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:42 AM   #1095
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What? This is exactly what I mean! Somehow Creationism has suddenly become a stupid western idea, can't have any religious beliefs in China! Nope.
The USofA does not represent the "West". I'm happy that we in Europe by a long stretch don't have that many fundamental Christianists as you have.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:44 AM   #1096
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Only because the price of gas in the States does not properly reflect the scarcity and other features (such as its detrimental effect to the overall well-being of the environment) of that substance. It's a skewed market. Besides, the prices do not reflect on the cost of energy alone, but also the level of service: you get none driving in your car, but you have leisure on the train and gets served with food, drinks, and all.
Environmental effects? China would know.

And you can always stop for food and drink! There's a gas station on every other street corner here in the city. That's one thing high-speed rail can never bring to a city, easy access. Here you can drive the car anywhere you want, at any time. It's not like there are traffic jams 24/7 on the roads. I know where I live there is not enough population to make high-speed rail profitable, there aren't enough people who would even use it. America is so spread out that high-speed rail would be rather useless in most parts of the country, with the exception of California, Texas, and New York-DC. The whole middle of the country is still uninhabited. No farms, no nothing. I don't see how a large high-speed rail network would be profitable here, I really don't.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:46 AM   #1097
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The USofA does not represent the "West". I'm happy that we in Europe by a long stretch don't have that many fundamental Christianists as you have.
Your very right, we don't have any desire to represent the "west" either. It's just the US always gets grouped in with the "west". And we'll be happy to take any fundamental Christens you don't want! Send them over!
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:49 AM   #1098
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Environmental effects? China would know.

And you can always stop for food and drink! There's a gas station on every other street corner here in the city. That's one thing high-speed rail can never bring to a city, easy access. Here you can drive the car anywhere you want, at any time. It's not like there are traffic jams 24/7 on the roads. I know where I live there is not enough population to make high-speed rail profitable, there aren't enough people who would even use it. America is so spread out that high-speed rail would be rather useless in most parts of the country, with the exception of California, Texas, and New York-DC. The whole middle of the country is still uninhabited. I don't see how it would be profitable here, I really don't.
It's a fair point to make with regard to some parts of the US, in their current state, I suppose. But I thought the original issue (and the one closer to the topic of _this_ thread) was whether it is profitable/makes sense to build a high speed rail network in _China_, or is that not so?
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:50 AM   #1099
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Dude, oil is still cheeper than high speed rail! That's the only point many of us have made.



Now there is A LOT of Chinese nationalism floating around here too, so don't blame westerns for speaking off the cuff. You guys are just as guilty.
If oil is cheaper, how come no one bashes the Japanese/Koreans/Europeans for building their highspeed railway?

Now, if a billion Chinese are driving their own cars, just like the Americans, instead of taking the highspeed railway, those western bashers will complain there are way too many polluting cars in China.

How come whenever a Chinese person supports his/her own country, it is necessarily because of nationalism?
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Old January 7th, 2010, 01:53 AM   #1100
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Your very right, we don't have any desire to represent the "west" either. It's just the US always gets grouped in with the "west". And we'll be happy to take any fundamental Christens you don't want! Send them over!
LOL, as if you guys don't address yoursef to be the leader of the "West".

You can have all those Christianists and I say good riddance.
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