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Old September 19th, 2016, 11:28 AM   #11021
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equario View Post
I have stayed few days in Changsha. On the way back to Shenzhen, I have recorded two videos. Itinerary: Changsha South – Shenzhen Futian
These trains exist, but are conspicuously scarce:
Changsha South-Guangzhou South - 101 G trains daily
Changsha South-Shenzhen North - 43 G trains daily
Changsha South-Futian - 2 G trains daily.
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Old September 19th, 2016, 12:41 PM   #11022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
These trains exist, but are conspicuously scarce:
Changsha South-Guangzhou South - 101 G trains daily
Changsha South-Shenzhen North - 43 G trains daily
Changsha South-Futian - 2 G trains daily.
I was aiming specifically for the Changsha South-Futian, as Futian is closer to where I stay. Plus, Shenzhen North is quite crowded.

Though, at Futian station after you pass the security check, there are no shops or places to get any food. Quite inconvenient.
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Old September 19th, 2016, 03:10 PM   #11023
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Yes. Futian is closer to a lot of central Shenzhen.
Shortage of shops and shortage of train services are both inconveniences.
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Old September 19th, 2016, 07:09 PM   #11024
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Promo of China's Concept Intercontinental High Speed Train at 2016 Berlin InnoTrans

Just a concept though.....



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Old September 19th, 2016, 10:47 PM   #11025
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Originally Posted by tjrgx View Post
Just a concept though.....



I'm not sure what this concept is supposed to conceptualize. Basically it's just a conventional double-decker HSR trainset with airplane-quality premium cabins and a palletized system for freight underneath, plus screens on every surface to remind us that it's from the future.

Beijing to London is over 8000km in a straight line, so likely approaching 10,000km in a train route, which would take over 35 hours at continuous top speed. Considering the difficult geography, a more reasonable 200kph average translates into 50 hours of travel time, which is just absurd when flights are only about 10 hours.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 01:10 AM   #11026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post


Yes. Futian is closer to a lot of central Shenzhen.
Shortage of shops and shortage of train services are both inconveniences.
I'm curious, why isn't Futian station more busy? If I were to visit Shenzhen that would be my station of choice. I haven't heard much about this station since it's opening. Understandably there wouldn't be to many videos about it since it's all underground.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 04:31 AM   #11027
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I'm curious, why isn't Futian station more busy? If I were to visit Shenzhen that would be my station of choice. I haven't heard much about this station since it's opening. Understandably there wouldn't be to many videos about it since it's all underground.
I presume due to the following reasons:

1. Location. The majority of Shenzhen's population live in the East North and West North of the city. For them, it's more convenient to take a train from Shenzhen North. At the same time, if I am a tourist arriving in Shenzhen via the airport and want to explore other cities, I will definitely go to Futian. Given that there is Line 11 running between Futian and the airport.

2. Traffic. As seen from the first point, Shenzhen North is catering more for the people that live in Shenzhen (both temporary and local). Futian, on the other side, I believe is more for the business pax.

3. Size. Futian station has 8 platforms versus 20 platforms at Shenzhen North.

4. Time. It takes at least 15 - 20 minutes more to/from Futian. On my way to/from Changsha, the train stopped for 5 - 6 minutes at Shenzhen North.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 09:52 AM   #11028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSMEX View Post
Beijing to London is over 8000km in a straight line, so likely approaching 10,000km in a train route, which would take over 35 hours at continuous top speed. Considering the difficult geography, a more reasonable 200kph average translates into 50 hours of travel time, which is just absurd when flights are only about 10 hours.
Shenzhen North-Beijing West: 2 G trains daily, faster G80, trip time 10:15
Nanning-Beijing: 2 G trains daily, faster G422 from Nanning East, trip time 13:09
Guiyang North-Beijing: 3 G trains daily, fastest G82, trip time 8:41
Shenzhen North-Shanghai: 6 D trains daily, fastest D3126, trip time 11:43
Chengdu East-Shanghai: 3 D trains daily, fastest D354, trip time 14:55
Harbin-Shanghai: G1201, trip time 12:39
Urumqi-Lanzhou: 5 D trains daily, fastest D2714, trip time 10:48.

I expect that in these cases a flight is under 3 hours. And the trains mentioned run by day, not overnight. Yet they do run.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 12:18 PM   #11029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I'm curious, why isn't Futian station more busy? If I were to visit Shenzhen that would be my station of choice. I haven't heard much about this station since it's opening. Understandably there wouldn't be to many videos about it since it's all underground.
I think it is more geared and tied into the opening of the HSR extension to West Kowloon Terminus. Once the HK section is opened, I would expect the train schedule to serve Futian in line with the long distance trains to and from Hong Kong.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 01:44 PM   #11030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equario View Post
3. Size. Futian station has 8 platforms versus 20 platforms at Shenzhen North.
For comparison, Tokyo Station has 6 platforms for Tokaido Shinkansen.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 02:06 PM   #11031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Shenzhen North-Beijing West: 2 G trains daily, faster G80, trip time 10:15
Nanning-Beijing: 2 G trains daily, faster G422 from Nanning East, trip time 13:09
Guiyang North-Beijing: 3 G trains daily, fastest G82, trip time 8:41
Shenzhen North-Shanghai: 6 D trains daily, fastest D3126, trip time 11:43
Chengdu East-Shanghai: 3 D trains daily, fastest D354, trip time 14:55
Harbin-Shanghai: G1201, trip time 12:39
Urumqi-Lanzhou: 5 D trains daily, fastest D2714, trip time 10:48.

I expect that in these cases a flight is under 3 hours. And the trains mentioned run by day, not overnight. Yet they do run.
Even the longest train on this list is under one third of a hypothetical Beijing to London route, not to mention that the Chengdu-Shanghai line passes through a number of major cities.

15 hours and 50 hours are very, very different trip times and I suspect one is just barely tolerable and the other is complete insanity.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 03:08 PM   #11032
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Originally Posted by SSMEX View Post
15 hours and 50 hours are very, very different trip times and I suspect one is just barely tolerable and the other is complete insanity.
Lhasa-Guangzhou is 55 hours 5 minutes.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 04:37 PM   #11033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
This was the only post you made on the day.



You gave an example of a G train between Shanghai and Qingdao which goes via Jinan. A very indirect route because there isn't a direct HS (or any other for that matter) railway between those two cities. The distance is about 1300km and hence the 500+ Yuan price. The bus route is merely approx 700km long and hence lower price. How does the price per km compare in this case with a bus and G train? Can we do the math?

For some reason you avoided responding to numerous other examples and questions provided afterwards. Those included:

- D trains vs buses in terms of ticket price per distance unit.
- G trains vs buses in terms of ticket price per distance unit.

I roughly know the answers because I'm able to use a calculator and know the data I need to use.

You, on the other hand, gave a bunch of claims and threw one flawed example comparing 1300km route with a 700km one and skipped the rest. Hence I continue thinking that you make baseless hypotheses based on anything but numbers and facts.



By using a calculator and dividing ticket price from distance in km?
Do migrants worry about the price per km or the actual money they pay out? Need to use some simple logic here to gauge consumer behaviour. Clearly, the migrants go for the most affordable option, not some mathematical derivative you are trying to use.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #11034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I'm curious, why isn't Futian station more busy? If I were to visit Shenzhen that would be my station of choice. I haven't heard much about this station since it's opening. Understandably there wouldn't be to many videos about it since it's all underground.
Futian cannot be fully utilized until the Hong Kong section of the line opens. In the meantime, Shenzhen North serves mostly as the terminus as it is a much larger station.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 05:35 PM   #11035
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Do migrants worry about the price per km or the actual money they pay out? Need to use some simple logic here to gauge consumer behaviour. Clearly, the migrants go for the most affordable option, not some mathematical derivative you are trying to use.
Of course.
But the case of Shanghai-Qingdao is a case where the railway makes a huge detour, while a direct road does exist. It is therefore quite natural that, on this specific route and other similar routes, rail is both slow and expensive compared to bus.
What is relevant to a lot of cases directly, and for more general application, is cases where both railway and road are fairly direct. How do the prices of buses and D trains compare in that case?
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Old September 20th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #11036
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Do migrants worry about the price per km or the actual money they pay out? Need to use some simple logic here to gauge consumer behaviour. Clearly, the migrants go for the most affordable option, not some mathematical derivative you are trying to use.
So you only meant routes with no realistic alternatives such as Shanghai-Qingdao route which has no direct railway between them? You should have clarified that from the beginning because I thought you were applying this as a general rule. Admittedly that's a strange example to give. Comparing bus to a railway which isn't used by anyone, not only 'migrant workers' for very obvious geographical (not pricing) reasons.

But what about realistic routes that have alternative modes of transport that are comparable by distance?

Which option do masses choose to go on Beijing-Xi'an? Guangzhou-Nanning? Shanghai-Chiongqing?

a) Bus
a) G train
b) D train

How do price options compare for those routes between different modes of transport?

Last edited by Pansori; September 20th, 2016 at 07:36 PM.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 09:37 PM   #11037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post

But what about realistic routes that have alternative modes of transport that are comparable by distance?

Which option do masses choose to go on Beijing-Xi'an? Guangzhou-Nanning? Shanghai-Chiongqing?

a) Bus
a) G train
b) D train

How do price options compare for those routes between different modes of transport?
Beijing-Xian:
no D service
G train price 515 yuan 5 jiao
Guangzhou-Nanning East:
G train and D train price equally 169 yuan
Shanghai-Chongqing:
no G service
D train price 509 yuan 5 jiao
So, how are buses?
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Old September 20th, 2016, 10:56 PM   #11038
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Lhasa-Guangzhou is 55 hours 5 minutes.
. . . and it runs only once per day with sleeper cars.
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Old September 21st, 2016, 06:02 AM   #11039
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An interesting news article as the web of high speed lines in the Pearl River Delta increases.

Quote:
High-speed rail planned to Zhaoqing
Shenzhen Daily News
Han Ximin
September 19th 2016


A HIGH-SPEED rail will be planned and built from Shenzhen to Zhaoqing City to connect with the Guizhou-Guangzhou and Nanning-Guangzhou rails, according to an agreement signed by the Shenzhen Municipal Government and Guangzhou Railway Group Corp.

Another railway will be planned to connect with Huicheng South Railway Station in neighboring Huizhou to join the Guangzhou-Shantou railway. This railway will link Shenzhen with the Shenzhen-Shanwei Cooperation Zone.

Within the city, a west-east railway is also considered to connect Airport East, Xili and Pingshan stations.

According to the agreement, Guangzhou Railway Group Corp. will support Shenzhen’s effort to become a national railway transportation hub.

The high-speed train depot at Shenzhen North Railway Station will be expanded by 930,000 square meters to accommodate more trains for the opening of the Ganzhou-Shenzhen High-Speed Rail and new depots will be built in Xili, Airport East and Pingshan stations.

Shenzhen will support Guangzhou Railway Group in building its high-speed rail headquarters in Shenzhen as more high-speed rails, such as the Ganzhou-Shenzhen High-Speed Rail and Shenzhen-Maoming High-speed Rail, will be put into operation in the near future.

The two sides agreed to renovate the Pinghu-Nanshan railway, starting with a 900,000-square-meter railway cargo yard that will be built at Pinghu Station.
I am curious to think about what route would actually be used to Zhaoqing? Would it be a new route and new river crossing? Or would it branch off from the Shenzhen-Maoming HSR?

Also the East-West railway connecting the new high-speed railway stations at Airport East, Xili and Pingshan will be useful in new possible routes across Guangdong.
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Old September 21st, 2016, 07:23 AM   #11040
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CRRC promo video @ 2016 Berlin InnoTrans

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