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Old January 22nd, 2017, 09:33 AM   #11281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Shenzhen is a particularly bad example since it only has a very recent history, being an artificially-created city.
No more than Hong Kong.
The county seat of Baoan County was in Nantou till it was moved to Shenzhen in 1953.
The 70 years of Shenzhen history between building of railway in 1910 and opening of SEZ in 1978 was a history of a small town, but history nevertheless.

In 1980s, Hong Kong doubletracked and electrified their part of Kowloon-Canton railway. What has mainland done with their part?
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 10:07 AM   #11282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
The new high speed line is being built north-south through Ebian, while the Chengdu-Kunming Railway travels east-west along the river. To the north, it will connect to the Emei Shan branch, but I have no idea where it expected to go heading south.
if you draw a straight line on a bearing of 210 degrees from Ebian you will arrive at Xichang, thru country that would need tunnels of between 5 - 15km, pretty standard for HSR these days. The distance is ~190km, or 45 minutes at 350km/hr. But there is no civilization along that line, I don't see any chance of:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Economist;
Just as astonishing is urban growth alongside the tracks. At regular intervals—almost wherever there are stations, even if seemingly in the middle of nowhere—thickets of newly built offices and residential blocks rise from the ground.
And presumably the old line would stay open for local trains, because Mao did a deal with the Yi people that they get free travel...
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 10:14 AM   #11283
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Originally Posted by saiho View Post
The correlations between settlement distribution / development and railways are much less pronounced in China.
Hmmm, so is the HSR 4 down and 4 across just the realisation of Sun Yat Sen's dream when he drew straight lines across a map of China?
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 11:40 AM   #11284
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Talking about that Kunming-Chengdu railway - cannot find any trains stopping in 99 km between Kunming and Lufeng South.
Especially an odd contrast looking at train 6162. A single stop (Lufeng South) in the 153 km between Kunming and Guangtong North - but then 18 stops in the 198 km distance Guangtong North to Panzhihua.

Where are the stations near Kunming, between Kunming and Lufeng?
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 03:05 PM   #11285
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chornedsnorkack

The map on wikipedia is not updated, yet. You can give your contribution, seriously..




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lines_in_China

PS

China is a developing country.

In Our Europe, where chorned immigrated, I can't take a HSR from Paris to Milan, without passing [slowly] through villages..
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 07:42 PM   #11286
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Originally Posted by Norge78 View Post
In Our Europe, where chorned immigrated
No.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 08:10 PM   #11287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No more than Hong Kong.
The county seat of Baoan County was in Nantou till it was moved to Shenzhen in 1953.
The 70 years of Shenzhen history between building of railway in 1910 and opening of SEZ in 1978 was a history of a small town, but history nevertheless.

In 1980s, Hong Kong doubletracked and electrified their part of Kowloon-Canton railway. What has mainland done with their part?
Shenzhen never developed due to the KCR. So the railway argument falls apart. It was an agricultural village until Deng Xiaopeng came up with his revolutionary plan. That's when this "city" came into being.

Hong Kong developed as a port. The mechanics are different. The KCR was never built to facilitate mass people or freight movement across borders given the complicated visa procedures at the time. As previously stated already, railway-centric urban development is far less pronounced in this part of the world than Europe.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 08:35 PM   #11288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No more than Hong Kong.
The county seat of Baoan County was in Nantou till it was moved to Shenzhen in 1953.
The 70 years of Shenzhen history between building of railway in 1910 and opening of SEZ in 1978 was a history of a small town, but history nevertheless.
And that history has very little impact on what Shenzhen is today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
In 1980s, Hong Kong doubletracked and electrified their part of Kowloon-Canton railway. What has mainland done with their part?
They Quad-tracked electrified and upgraded the line to a profitable regional HSR line.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 09:09 PM   #11289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Shenzhen never developed due to the KCR. So the railway argument falls apart. It was an agricultural village until Deng Xiaopeng came up with his revolutionary plan. That's when this "city" came into being.
No.
Shenzhen of 1979 was a city with about 25 000 people over 3 square km.
Even in fertile South China, that´s far too big for an agricultural village - too many for most population to walk to fields daily.
The highest building in Shenzhen in 1979 was 5 storeys - again, small city, not a village.
But that small city was not a particularly ancient in 1979. For example, the seat of Baoan County had been moved from Nantou to Shenzhen in 1953.
What did Shenzhen look like in 1952?
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 01:38 AM   #11290
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There is a piece of news. The top speed of Hainan east ring
RR has been increased to 250km/h since January 20:
http://bbs.railcn.net/thread-1626081-1-1.html.
The fastest time from Haikou to Sanya is reduced from 1:35 to 1:26. The speed limit on some other lines may be restored (increased) in the spring.
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 07:28 AM   #11291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No.
Shenzhen of 1979 was a city with about 25 000 people over 3 square km.
Even in fertile South China, that´s far too big for an agricultural village - too many for most population to walk to fields daily.
The highest building in Shenzhen in 1979 was 5 storeys - again, small city, not a village.
But that small city was not a particularly ancient in 1979. For example, the seat of Baoan County had been moved from Nantou to Shenzhen in 1953.
What did Shenzhen look like in 1952?
Zhuhai, Jiangmen, Dongguang and Zhongshan were a similar size at the time and they did not have a railway. Please read on how settlement distribution and Central Place Theory works. Bigger settlements naturally happen without railways. It's not like when there are no railways all settlements will remain small farming villages. Some will naturally develop into larger regional agricultural centers for specialized trade and markets. But my main point still stands most settlements in China are not distributed like in Europe and other factors are much more significant in the growth of some settlements over others. So regional stop train services are much less needed in China.
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 10:05 AM   #11292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Talking about that Kunming-Chengdu railway - cannot find any trains stopping in 99 km between Kunming and Lufeng South.
Especially an odd contrast looking at train 6162. A single stop (Lufeng South) in the 153 km between Kunming and Guangtong North - but then 18 stops in the 198 km distance Guangtong North to Panzhihua.

Where are the stations near Kunming, between Kunming and Lufeng?
Apparently all main line freight and passenger trains go on the new upgraded line. The stations at Lufeng Nan and Guangtong Bei bear a superficial resemblance to HSR stations. There were posters extolling the virtues of HSR all along the hoarding fence for the underground workings on the western approach to Kunming. The bridges I saw along this line have HSR style piers and beams. But I'm not yet convinced this is a true HSR line. There are still coal trains unloading at the old Lufeng station on the old line, maybe freight service to some other places but I never saw it. The old line is connected to the new at Guangtong just north of where the line to Dali goes westwards. Freight service is still at the old Guangtong station. You want passenger service to one of those intermediate stations, you take a bus ...
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 12:37 PM   #11293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flankerjun View Post
Wuhan High speed train Yard.Taken on Jan 13










WOW!!
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 01:34 PM   #11294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
Apparently all main line freight and passenger trains go on the new upgraded line. The bridges I saw along this line have HSR style piers and beams. But I'm not yet convinced this is a true HSR line. There are still coal trains unloading at the old Lufeng station on the old line, maybe freight service to some other places but I never saw it. The old line is connected to the new at Guangtong just north of where the line to Dali goes westwards.
So, between Kunming and Guangtong, there are 2 parallel but separate slow speed railways - old slow speed railway, and new but also slow speed railway?
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 02:45 PM   #11295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No.
Shenzhen of 1979 was a city with about 25 000 people over 3 square km.
Even in fertile South China, that´s far too big for an agricultural village - too many for most population to walk to fields daily.
The highest building in Shenzhen in 1979 was 5 storeys - again, small city, not a village.
But that small city was not a particularly ancient in 1979. For example, the seat of Baoan County had been moved from Nantou to Shenzhen in 1953.
What did Shenzhen look like in 1952?
I hope you can do some research on Shenzhen's history before posting so many ignorant remarks here.

A "city" cannot be defined based on population alone. The area where Shenzhen sits today was populated by numerous villages that numbered less than 30,000 people. It was not one big town. People were not commuting within this "city", but getting by with their everyday lives on the basic within their village clusters.

China's urbanization is roughly half the population, which means several hundred million remain on the countryside. Based on that number alone, would you classify all of China's land "city"?
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Old January 24th, 2017, 12:23 AM   #11296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
So, between Kunming and Guangtong, there are 2 parallel but separate slow speed railways - old slow speed railway, and new but also slow speed railway?
Yeah, but, the old slow speed rail is used only by freight trains that need to stop at one of the old intermediate stations. And I've seen no official announcements about what this new line is. If it truly is HSR then maybe one day when HSR trainsets start to run at full speed on it, the freight and local pax trains may have to revert to the old line. Otherwise if it's just one of the 160km/hr upgrades they've been doing on some trunk lines, then it's a faster slow speed railway, with the advantage of double track but limited by most of the rolling stock to 120km/hr.
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Old January 24th, 2017, 12:36 AM   #11297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
China's urbanization is roughly half the population, which means several hundred million remain on the countryside. Based on that number alone, would you classify all of China's land "city"?
And then there's the aspect of China's local government administration that sometimes confuses strangers: a City is the administrative area next below Province, and can often be several thousands of square kilometres, much of it empty hillsides; within the City are Counties, any of which may contain a town we might call a city of a few hundred thousand population; add to this China Rail's little quirk of sometimes naming a station with the name of a town 20 or 30 kilometres away... Aaah, the Inscrutable Orient
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Old January 24th, 2017, 03:43 AM   #11298
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Coastal HSR
http://www.guancha.cn/society/2017_01_21_390559.shtml

Basically the news is talking about a bridge built over the Yangtze river, which is going to be part of the future Costal HSR from Harbin to Haikou. There is also indication a tunnel will be built over the Bohai bay connecting Dalian and Qingdao.

Picture is from a 2014 revised HSR network longer term plan
http://i.guancha.cn/news/2017/01/21/...1164136274.png
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Old January 24th, 2017, 03:54 AM   #11299
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that Dalian - Yantai bridge is nuts!

edit: apparently it will be a tunnel, not a bridge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohai_Strait_tunnel
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Old January 24th, 2017, 03:58 AM   #11300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
And then there's the aspect of China's local government administration that sometimes confuses strangers: a City is the administrative area next below Province, and can often be several thousands of square kilometres, much of it empty hillsides; within the City are Counties, any of which may contain a town we might call a city of a few hundred thousand population; add to this China Rail's little quirk of sometimes naming a station with the name of a town 20 or 30 kilometres away... Aaah, the Inscrutable Orient
Also, I wonder where he is comparing with, in certain situations using population base as a metric is probably not wise when it comes to China
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