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Old February 7th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #11321
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Testing of high speed train technology in the laboratory



This clip shows testing of high speed train technology in the laboratory of the Institute of Mechanics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing. The experimental platform is 274 meters long, the world’s largest platform of its kind to conduct tests and experiments on aerodynamics of high speed trains traveling at 500 kilometers per hour. Check the video to experience a train being tested at 250 km per hour along the experiment platform.
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Old February 7th, 2017, 05:50 PM   #11322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The distance Guangzhou East-Dongguan is also 64 km, just like Guangzhou South-Zhongshan North.
Over the 64 km distance Guangzhou South-Zhongshan North, there are 3 stations that receive 37+ trains per day: Shunde, Ronggui and Xiaolan.
Between them, there are also 5 stations that receive 4-10 trains per day: Bijiang, Beijiao, Shunde College, Nantou and Dongsheng.
These stations at least do receive those 4-10 trains per day, rather than be altogether abandoned.
What does Dongsheng Station look like?
For contrast, I could not find any trains stopping anywhere in the 64 km distance between Guangzhou East and Dongguan.
The eastern bank of Pearl River is more populous and developed than west bank. Why then is it so ill served compared to Guangzhou-Zhuhai railway?
I don't know how you count. There are 10 intermediate stations between Guangzhou Est and Dongguan. They are all on the classic Guangshen Line though and not on the newly added fast Guangshen Line.

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Originally Posted by saiho View Post
The Guangshen Railway has a private railway operator. Given the limited track capacity and that they have a monopoly on rail travel in the east bank, the company most likely deduced that the most profitable service is a intercity express service as opposed to a local service. That will probably change when the Guangzhou-Dongguan-Shenzhen ICR opens, offering another competing link between the cities the Guangshen Railway serves. This may force the Guangshen Railway to adapt its service to changing market conditions.
I don't think that the arrival of the Guangzhou-Dongguan-Shenzhen ICR will mean much to the Guangshen Line as both serve different areas and purposes.
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Old February 7th, 2017, 06:46 PM   #11323
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National Rail by Sijie Bu, on Flickr
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Old February 7th, 2017, 07:31 PM   #11324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
I don't know how you count. There are 10 intermediate stations between Guangzhou Est and Dongguan. They are all on the classic Guangshen Line though and not on the newly added fast Guangshen Line.
I see references to stations:
  1. Shipai
  2. Huangpu
  3. Jiuyunhui
  4. Jishan
  5. Xiayuan
  6. Nangang
  7. Xintang
  8. Shapu
  9. Tangmei
  10. Xiancun
  11. Shitan
  12. Honghai
  13. Shilong
But I could not find any schedules to these stations, causing suspicion that they are deserted.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 07:55 AM   #11325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
List the other East Bank lines, then.
This is part of the web of railways built, under construction or planned to serve Dongguan for passenger service only.

Guangshen Railway
Guangzhou - Shenzhen - Hong Kong XRL
Foshan - Dongguan ICR
Dongguan - Huizhou ICR
Guangzhou - Dongguan - Shenzhen ICR

Dongguan Metro Line 1
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Old February 8th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #11326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
I see references to stations:
  1. Shipai
  2. Huangpu
  3. Jiuyunhui
  4. Jishan
  5. Xiayuan
  6. Nangang
  7. Xintang
  8. Shapu
  9. Tangmei
  10. Xiancun
  11. Shitan
  12. Honghai
  13. Shilong
But I could not find any schedules to these stations, causing suspicion that they are deserted.
Neither do I. But I wouldn't conclude that there were no local services. China as country isn't very open. There could very well be services whose timetables are hard to come by for non-Chinese.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #11327
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CRH380B at Huangshan North Railway Station. by Airbus A380-800, on Flickr
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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:45 AM   #11328
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I'm not sure if this has been posted before but I came across an amazing CCTV documentary about China's High Speed Railways. If you need English subtitles, just switch on closed captioning.

I found the segment on manufacturing of IGBT converters particularly fascinating. It just shows how the minutest factors are critical to the success of the entire Chinese HSR system on such a colossal scale.

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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:59 AM   #11329
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I wonder how many passengers everyday using all these HSR?
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Old February 9th, 2017, 06:45 AM   #11330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Neither do I. But I wouldn't conclude that there were no local services. China as country isn't very open. There could very well be services whose timetables are hard to come by for non-Chinese.
There are no passenger services on those stations. They are freight stations.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 08:09 AM   #11331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aim11086 View Post
I wonder how many passengers everyday using all these HSR?
Source : http://www.chinadailyasia.com/nation..._15471224.html

>4 million a day
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Old February 9th, 2017, 09:08 AM   #11332
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
So much for the hard to come by argument.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 11:12 AM   #11333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
This is part of the web of railways built, under construction or planned to serve Dongguan for passenger service only.

Guangshen Railway
Guangzhou - Shenzhen - Hong Kong XRL
Only these two exist, right?
And Guangzhou-Shenzhen HSR has only 4 stations in 116 km:
  1. Qingsheng
  2. Humen
  3. Guangmingcheng
  4. Shenzhen North
Compare against the 15 stations in the 116 km Guangzhou-Zhuhai.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
Foshan - Dongguan ICR
Dongguan - Huizhou ICR
Guangzhou - Dongguan - Shenzhen ICR

Dongguan Metro Line 1
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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:14 PM   #11334
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Enroute Kunming to Fenghuang, China on high speed train by Bagush, on Flickr
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Old February 10th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #11335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
WOW!! never thought tats much.
should be so affordable that most citizen can enjoy it.

i think i wanna try someday
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Old February 10th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #11336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingstingsting View Post
I'm not sure if this has been posted before but I came across an amazing CCTV documentary about China's High Speed Railways. If you need English subtitles, just switch on closed captioning.

I found the segment on manufacturing of IGBT converters particularly fascinating. It just shows how the minutest factors are critical to the success of the entire Chinese HSR system on such a colossal scale.

This is a great documentary. I watched the other three in the series after seeing this one.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 05:47 PM   #11337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Only these two exist, right?
And Guangzhou-Shenzhen HSR has only 4 stations in 116 km:
  1. Qingsheng
  2. Humen
  3. Guangmingcheng
  4. Shenzhen North
Compare against the 15 stations in the 116 km Guangzhou-Zhuhai.
The Guangdong government has planned the whole Pearl River Delta as an intergrated network, not just one line either side of the river. Most of the lines and construction is concentrate on the Eastern side, while the Zhuhai railway was built first as there was no passenger railway service at all on the Western side and also to create a link to the Macau border. While the Guangshen Railway is over a century old, the Guangzhou - Zhuhai ICR is just 6 years old in comparison.

The Dongguan - Huizhou ICR is partially completed from Changping East, with 3 stations serving the Dongguan area with additional 7 once fully completed.

The Dongguan Metro Line 1 will have 26 stations serving Dongguan.

Foshan - Dongguan ICR, being built, will have two stations in Dongguan, 4 in Guangzhou. As well as connecting with the Dongguan - Huizhou ICR

The Guangzhou - Dongguan - Shenzhen ICR will have 10 stations in Dongguan.

There are also proposals for some of those freight stations on the Guangshen Railway to be renovated and opened up to commuter passenger service once again, such as Pinghu station in Shenzhen.

So it does not take too much effort to see that that there is a much greater density of stations on the Eastern bank of the Pearl River once completed. Certainly more than the Western bank's 15 stations, patience is called for until all the projects are completed.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 07:23 PM   #11338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
While the Guangshen Railway is over a century old, the Guangzhou - Zhuhai ICR is just 6 years old in comparison.
The problem is that Guangshen railway is deserted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
The Dongguan Metro Line 1 will have 26 stations serving Dongguan.

Foshan - Dongguan ICR, being built, will have two stations in Dongguan, 4 in Guangzhou. As well as connecting with the Dongguan - Huizhou ICR

The Guangzhou - Dongguan - Shenzhen ICR will have 10 stations in Dongguan.
Plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
There are also proposals for some of those freight stations on the Guangshen Railway to be renovated and opened up to commuter passenger service once again, such as Pinghu station in Shenzhen.
Proposals. Some.
The problem is that these stations were not kept open for commuter service, continuously and all of them, until they could be renovated/upgraded/supplemented with additional lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
So it does not take too much effort to see that that there is a much greater density of stations on the Eastern bank of the Pearl River once completed. Certainly more than the Western bank's 15 stations, patience is called for until all the projects are completed.
It does not take much effort to see that there is much smaller density of stations just now. Patience could be justified if all the old stations were in use. Abandoning old stations while new stations are vapourware expected in decades does not warrant patience. People do not make decisions to build businesses, build homes or not get cars based on vague plans in ten years.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 11:44 PM   #11339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The problem is that Guangshen railway is deserted.
No it isn't, it has intercity trains running very 5 to 10 min.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Plans.
Reality. All the aforementioned lines are under construction and will be complete by 2022.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
It does not take much effort to see that there is much smaller density of stations just now.
Ya so? Its not like China is doing nothing about it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Patience could be justified if all the old stations were in use.
Only in the eyes of someone really eager to reopen those stations. If your goal is to expand the network with new construction while greenfield construction costs are low, you could care less. You can get back to it when building subways are getting too expensive.

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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Abandoning old stations while new stations are vapourware expected in decades does not warrant patience.
Who said they are "vapourware" the new lines better hit the population centers than the old line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
People do not make decisions to build businesses, build homes or not get cars based on vague plans in ten years.
I have never read something so ridiculous. If you are buying a house or starting a business and you don't account for what will happen in the next 10 years then you truly don't know what you are doing. If you are worried about more people using cars in China, don't be. Cities are very dense and car ownership rates are still very low despite years of high growth. The next five years will see about 3,000 kilometers of new urban transit lines being constructed. This is how you fight private automobile usage and provide urban mobility. Which pining for nostalgic surface railways does not do.
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Old February 11th, 2017, 12:41 AM   #11340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
No it isn't, it has intercity trains running very 5 to 10 min.
But no commuter trains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Reality. All the aforementioned lines are under construction and will be complete by 2022.
By which time people will have had to make do without for how many years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Ya so? Its not like China is doing nothing about it now.
China has obviously failed to do the obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Only in the eyes of someone really eager to reopen those stations. If your goal is to expand the network with new construction while greenfield construction costs are low, you could care less. You can get back to it when building subways are getting too expensive.
Wrong order of costs.
The cost of building a surface railway through a green field is relatively cheap. The cost of cutting a surface railway through a built up area is much more expensive.
The cost of digging a subway is expensive even under a green field. Digging a subway under a built up area is even more costly than digging under a green field, but not so much relative difference, because digging the subway is so expensive to begin with.
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Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Who said they are "vapourware" the new lines better hit the population centers than the old line.
But they do not today exist.
And there are some people on old line. They should be served, but are not.
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Originally Posted by saiho View Post
I have never read something so ridiculous. If you are buying a house or starting a business and you don't account for what will happen in the next 10 years then you truly don't know what you are doing.
What happened to people who built houses in, oh, 2007, based on the Shanghai Transrapid extension?
The construction plans 10 years ahead are heavily subject to changes of plans. Physically present lines are somewhat more reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
The next five years will see about 3,000 kilometers of new urban transit lines being constructed. This is how you fight private automobile usage and provide urban mobility. Which pining for nostalgic surface railways does not do.
Surface railways are not just "nostalgic".
They are, for one, quick, cheap and cost effective for many purposes. And for another, in many places already in place.
Look right across border to Hong Kong.
Hong Kong, in 1979, had 34 km of single track, unelectrified surface railway with 7 stations.
What did Hong Kong do?
Hong Kong built 134 km of completely new subways, serving concentrations of people not served by existing rail.

But Hong Kong did not abandon surface railway or its stations.
Rather, Hong Kong electrified and double tracked those 34 km. And added 6 new stations to the existing 7. And also built a new, 7 km long Lok Ma Chau line which is a branch of Kowloon-Canton railway.
And the East Rail continues to also carry long distance trains.
By all means, construct all new urban transit line. But this should not be exclusive of upgrading the existing lines and adding infill stations - let alone failure of public service to any existing station.
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