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Old July 22nd, 2017, 05:20 PM   #11601
tjrgx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
The reason is that none of them are high speed railways. Of course the article is definitely leaning on the negative side preferring to highlight "failures", China is still very new at this so blunters are expected.
But the article also highlight Laos railway which is 160km/h. Also Do they mention 70% of cost is shared by China?

Chinese firms is only a sub-contractor for Saudi HSR I believe?

FT has a very loose definition of HSR, above 120km/h
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 07:43 PM   #11602
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All this HSR infrastructure has to be incredibly expensive to maintain, but nonetheless impressive. I hope China maintains their rail system better than they seem to with apartment blocks and other public spaces.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:20 PM   #11603
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lol... when did Chinese companies won the California rail project that it is now considered "discontinued".. really lol.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:22 PM   #11604
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Can China actually build their HSR to Taiwan? Is it possible without any "military" involvement, meaning purely both sides agree to get a Mainland - Taiwan HSR link built

or is that section just planned but has no timeline
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:35 PM   #11605
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As far as I have ben able to find, planned, but no timeline. Truthfully, the barriers to building a Taiwan-mainland HSR tunnel are more political than anything else, and considering Xi's hawkishness and Tsai Ing Wen's broadly anti-China stance, we can call it a vision--albeit one I'd like to see come to fruition under the right circumstances.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:47 PM   #11606
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Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
As far as I have ben able to find, planned, but no timeline. Truthfully, the barriers to building a Taiwan-mainland HSR tunnel are more political than anything else, and considering Xi's hawkishness and Tsai Ing Wen's broadly anti-China stance, we can call it a vision--albeit one I'd like to see come to fruition under the right circumstances.
This is a distant dream.... China however are doing their bits by construing their segment (Fuzhou-Pingtan HSR) , which is set to open in 2019. This line are designed to further connect to Taiwan.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 10:32 PM   #11607
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There are no projects in Africa because they only talk about those that are for 200 or more.

In Haramain HSR they are only building the platform as part of the Al Rajhi Alliance Consortium (composed of Mada Group, Al Rajhi Holding, Al Arrab Contracting, Arup, French Bouygues and China Railway Engineering Corporation CRECG), the project changed to bring the station closer to the Great Mosque after starting, there were also extra costs, but you can not mix both. It is also true that they have not done very well and accumulate huge delays, although not all are their fault.
Phase 1.1 is budgeted at 1,453 million Euros, and is not only for CRECG; the amount they have put is for the whole project and its operation for 12 years. Most of the project is for the Al Shoula Group Consortium, made up of 88% of Spanish companies (ADIF, Renfe Operadora, INECO, Talgo, Cobra, Consultrans, Copasa, Dimetronic, Inabensa (Abengoa), Imathia, Indra and OHL) and two Saudi subcontractors (Al Shoula Group and Al Rosan Contracting).

In this case they do not know what they are talking about.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A...iaria_Haramain
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 10:41 PM   #11608
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
lol... when did Chinese companies won the California rail project that it is now considered "discontinued".. really lol.
An MOU and $100M investment was signed with XpressWest, the privately-developed HSR link between Las Vegas and Palmdale (Los Angeles), which connects to but is entirely separate from CAHSR, a project run by the State of California.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 12:01 AM   #11609
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Media (Western or Chinese) is notorious for inaccuracies when it comes to railways. Confusion with speeds (average, regular, service, maximum, cruising), definitions (what do they consider to be HSR?) etc. FT seems to be no exception.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 02:36 AM   #11610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post


.....

In this case they do not know what they are talking about.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A...iaria_Haramain
That's my impression as well.

They listed the Mexican project and the California project as failed ones. Both projects were terminated before they actually started, so no harm and no foul.

Especially for the California project, it's the norm for big public projects to take decades to fruition. It would've been a big surprise if China was able conclude a contract. In a mature democracy like US, fast moving projects scare people. That outcome was expected.

The whole article sounds too much of like a hit piece from those fringe "fake news" sites. It's very surprising to be from FT, who has so far managed to maintain a somewhat serious reputation.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 02:45 AM   #11611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSMEX View Post
An MOU and $100M investment was signed with XpressWest, the privately-developed HSR link between Las Vegas and Palmdale (Los Angeles), which connects to but is entirely separate from CAHSR, a project run by the State of California.
MOUs aren't contracts. They signal intentions, but don't mean much.

Governments sign MOUs with each other to generate press coverage and public interests, most don't generate concrete deliverables. People don't call those failures.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 05:32 AM   #11612
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 07:35 AM   #11613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mingrady View Post
MOUs aren't contracts. They signal intentions, but don't mean much.

Governments sign MOUs with each other to generate press coverage and public interests, most don't generate concrete deliverables. People don't call those failures.
Sure, but it's worth something. In this case, XpressWest and CRI called it "joint venture" and CRI was to be the exclusive operator and supplier of equipment and engineering services. Moreover, they were three months away from starting construction when the whole thing got called off.

It's one thing to sign an MOU to explore working together and it's another thing entirely to sign an MOU to actually work together on design/build. Because XpressWest is a private enterprise, there's no requirement for an open bidding process and an MOU is likely as far as they'd go publicly, with the exact contracts with deliverables details staying private.

If the JR and Texas Central HSR joint venture got called off, it'd be fair to consider it one in the loss column for JR exports. I don't see why this scenario is or would be any different.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 08:01 AM   #11614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Media (Western or Chinese) is notorious for inaccuracies when it comes to railways. Confusion with speeds (average, regular, service, maximum, cruising), definitions (what do they consider to be HSR?) etc. FT seems to be no exception.
Not to make excuses for inaccurate reporting of train services in the media but unfortunately, this is an issue in pretty much every technical field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mingrady View Post
That's my impression as well.

They listed the Mexican project and the California project as failed ones. Both projects were terminated before they actually started, so no harm and no foul.
What do you define as "started"? Just because there wasn't any hardware in the ground doesn't mean the project hadn't started yet. It takes years of planning and prep work, involving staff and capital, before groundbreaking happens. When you enter into a contract or joint venture to do something specific and that thing doesn't get done, that's considered a failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mingrady View Post
That's my impression as well.
Especially for the California project, it's the norm for big public projects to take decades to fruition. It would've been a big surprise if China was able conclude a contract. In a mature democracy like US, fast moving projects scare people. That outcome was expected.
XpressWest is 100% private and the project didn't get called off because the project was "fast moving". According to XpressWest, the project got called off because the project needed federal grants/loans with the Buy America requirement and CRI wasn't ready to supply equipment that could comply with such requirements. It has nothing to do with how fast the project was moving or who got scared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mingrady View Post
The whole article sounds too much of like a hit piece from those fringe "fake news" sites. It's very surprising to be from FT, who has so far managed to maintain a somewhat serious reputation.
The article is pushing the narrative the railway diplomacy isn't going as well as some may have wanted, and provides specific examples where this is the case. The Haramain HSR line is listed as "under way" and the fact that CRCC is only a minor player in the winning consortium actually inflates the amount under projects that are under way. If CRCC is only a small part of the $12.3B, the actual amount of under way projects would be around $12B total.

The various examples highlight the various failure modes, including building HSR where HSR might not be the best solution (too expensive or too fast for a short route), building HSR without complying with local regulations (whether it's financing rules or labor requirements), building HSR in highly unstable regions, etc.

Just because the narrative of the article isn't agreeable with you doesn't make this fake news. In fact, the depth of the various examples provided makes this the exact opposite of fake news. It even says that many of the failed projects failed due to reasons that are/were outside of Chinese control.
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 08:40 AM   #11615
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Why are Dandong lines missing from maps?
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 04:45 PM   #11616
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Why are Dandong lines missing from maps?
that is 2015 vesion

newest (2017.7) is below (pdf)

http://docdro.id/PZ5aFqi
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Old July 23rd, 2017, 07:55 PM   #11617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
It makes one wonder how much time CCTV and CD spent doing any fact-checking at all.

Over 150 years older:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Bridge
Was that high-speed rail?
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Old July 24th, 2017, 03:42 AM   #11618
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The Jinshajiang River overpass, one of the key parts of Chengdu-Guiyang high-speed railway under construction, will be world's first rail-road combined bridge with railway line on top deck, according to CCTV.
Here's the quote from the China Daily article.
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Last edited by Sopomon; July 24th, 2017 at 03:53 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 06:21 AM   #11619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Here's the quote from the China Daily article.
Fixed it for you. Your welcome.

Quote:
The Jinshajiang River overpass, one of the key parts of Chengdu-Guiyang high-speed railway under construction, will be world's first high-speed rail-road combined bridge with railway line on top deck, according to CCTV.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 12:08 PM   #11620
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Does China have a timetable for railway to Hainan?
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