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Old July 28th, 2017, 05:48 AM   #11641
t2contra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
How shall these 7 Fuxing trains get past Hexie trains?
Solution here:
New high-speed trains will run at 350km/h along the route, but railway expert says operator may have to reduce the number of services

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/socie...uld-mean-fewer
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Old July 28th, 2017, 10:39 AM   #11642
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Hexie trains did run at 350 km/h for 3 years, 2008 to 2011.
Could it be possible to speed up Hexie trains on the lines (and trains) where they have to get out of Fuxings' way, despite the higher cost?
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Old July 28th, 2017, 12:15 PM   #11643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t2contra View Post
Solution here:
New high-speed trains will run at 350km/h along the route, but railway expert says operator may have to reduce the number of services

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/socie...uld-mean-fewer
Makes no sense.
In order to increase speed they will sacrifice total capacity by reducing the number of trains per given time?
Basically that is financial suicide requiring to raise the ticket price just to maintain present revenue while the cost for power and maintenance will go up due to the increase in speed.
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Old July 28th, 2017, 04:11 PM   #11644
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Chongli branch line of Beiijng-Zhangjiakou HSR set to open in 2019

http://vip.people.com.cn/do/userbuy.jsp?aId=1078211


12794m Zhengpantai tunnel








Zhaochuan grand bridge

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Old July 28th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #11645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Makes no sense.
In order to increase speed they will sacrifice total capacity by reducing the number of trains per given time?
Basically that is financial suicide requiring to raise the ticket price just to maintain present revenue while the cost for power and maintenance will go up due to the increase in speed.
Yeah, those basic points must have been ignored by the engineers/planners. That expert is a genius.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 01:48 AM   #11646
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I would like to understand how the Chinese pulled off this high speed railway project so successfully. Obviously a combination of good project management, people management, engineering and something else I have no idea. I also don't understand how railways really work to keep track of all the different trains and coordinating all of them to work flawlessly. Probably have to railroad school to understand it all. All in all this project is amazingly impressive.
It's Government money, i.e. created at the stroke of a pen (brush?). With enough money you can do anything, and China isn't short of population to upskill to design/build/operate. People/project management? China invented the concepts 2000 years ago. Now they need to spend up large to fulfil the long term economic goals set down in the 1980 "reforms", which effectively set a growth rate of doubling GDP/capita every decade, the same as a 7% annual rate, right out to the centenary of the Republic in 2049. Part of it is social engineering with rapid urbanisation, and HSR becoming effectively the commuter service in the new megacities. Apparently works well for pan-Bohai, Yangtze delta and Pearl R. delta. Altho' I have seen new dormitory suburbs lying empty on the central Sichuan plains, and some new "cities" on the ashes of old fishing villages down the east coast, where the only people are the high-rise construction workers. The "one child" policy was damping the growth rate, and Chinese investors are looking overseas for new places. The FT's scare piece quoted above is European "old money" getting a fright. I rather wonder how many places outside China (or inside for that matter) can sustain a return of 7%+ through the life of an HSR project...
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Old July 29th, 2017, 02:36 AM   #11647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I would like to understand how the Chinese pulled off this high speed railway project so successfully. Obviously a combination of good project management, people management, engineering and something else I have no idea. I also don't understand how railways really work to keep track of all the different trains and coordinating all of them to work flawlessly. Probably have to railroad school to understand it all. All in all this project is amazingly impressive.
I am not sure about "good project management, people management", but when you throw enough money and people at infrastructure projects, shits get done, fast. As it happens, China has billions of $$$ and billions of people.

Although high speed rails are still evolving, it's actually a mature technology, thanks to the decades of efforts by the Japanese, German, French and etc. China bought the technologies and learned from all of them.

Bombardier and Siemens are especially generous in sharing their technologies with China, because China paid them generously. They had hoped to stay ahead of the technology curve with Chinese money, but didn't expect the Chinese would learn so fast in such short time.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 02:48 AM   #11648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
How shall these 7 Fuxing trains get past Hexie trains?


All those CRH train are designed to run at 350km/hr and 380km/hr anyways and BJ-SH was originally designed for 380km/hr. They are only running at 300 km/hr because of the slowdown in July 2011. Current phase is just for testing trail runs, so they way just run them during the morning as the first trains into the pipeline. Come September, all trains on the line will speed up to 350km/hr
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Old July 29th, 2017, 04:58 AM   #11649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Makes no sense.
In order to increase speed they will sacrifice total capacity by reducing the number of trains per given time?
Basically that is financial suicide requiring to raise the ticket price just to maintain present revenue while the cost for power and maintenance will go up due to the increase in speed.
Genius, it seems you have everything thought out. Why are you not helping Japan get out of its economic quagmire? TBH, if every Japanese engineer were like you, I would be a happy camper.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 06:30 AM   #11650
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Yeah, those basic points must have been ignored by the engineers/planners. That expert is a genius.
Your experts can't do simple math.
Basically it's a vanity project.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 09:59 AM   #11651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Your experts can't do simple math.
Basically it's a vanity project.
Butthurt genius, you should work for the Bank of Japan or Abe.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #11652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Makes no sense.
In order to increase speed they will sacrifice total capacity by reducing the number of trains per given time?
Basically that is financial suicide requiring to raise the ticket price just to maintain present revenue while the cost for power and maintenance will go up due to the increase in speed.



After two Nukes on japanese people and other Western humiliations of japan (daily rape of poor japanese women and children in okinawa, like in a 3d world occupied country), the only thing that can do now this castrated "samurai", with his traditional inferiority complex, is trying to bash China..

Funny anyway, from my Western perspective..


Any news about the opening of the Jinan - Shijiazhuang line?

Thx
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Last edited by Norge78; July 29th, 2017 at 10:20 AM. Reason: castrated samurai
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Old July 29th, 2017, 01:14 PM   #11653
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It will be better to talk about infrastructures again

Jinan-Shijiazhuang (323 km 250 km/h) be completed and put into use in December, 2017 (Source: Xinhua| 2017-06-15).
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Old July 29th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #11654
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How did Japanese handle mixing 320 km/h new trains and 300 km/h old trains on the same line when they got new trains good for 320 km/h?
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Old July 29th, 2017, 07:33 PM   #11655
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At 320 they run the E5 / H5 and E6 series, and only on the Utsunomiya (109 km from Tokyo) -Morioka (387 km in total to 320 kmh) section of the Tohoku Shinkansen; there is also E2 and E3 series at 275 kmh. There is not too much saturation, in the Tokaido Shinkansen almost all go to 300 except the series 800 for the Kyushu Shinkansen (260 kmh).

The problem in the Jinghu PDL will be the trains at 250 kmh.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 09:08 PM   #11656
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I didn't realize the 250(200)km/h trains ran on the Jinghu PDL. I thought all the slower CRH trains ran on the conventional Beijing-Shanghai Railway.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 12:51 AM   #11657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
At 320 they run the E5 / H5 and E6 series, and only on the Utsunomiya (109 km from Tokyo) -Morioka (387 km in total to 320 kmh) section of the Tohoku Shinkansen; there is also E2 and E3 series at 275 kmh. There is not too much saturation
What is the actual number of trains running on the section?
For example, Tokyo-Sendai appears to have 9 trains departing Tokyo between 7:00 and 8:00. 2 Hayate, 4 Yamabiko and 3 Hayabusa trains.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 05:32 AM   #11658
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Seeing that, a question popped up in my head. Granting that Tokyo is, obviously, enormous, and there are other population centers along the route to Sendai (primarily Utsunomiya and Fukushima), 7 trains per hour seems like a lot for what is ultimately not that populated a route. What are the ridership levels on a route like the Tohoku Shinkansen?

I'd imagine that, compared to China, where just about every city along the way from, e.g., Beijing to Shenyang, has multiple millions of people, it's lower, but then again, JR East still records regular operating profits. Is that due to the other services the company offers? Is CRH able to make a profit solely from its high-speed service due to greater passenger numbers? I guess I'm just wondering how vital and central each country's high-speed rail network is to their overall transportation capacity.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 09:35 AM   #11659
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Seeing that, a question popped up in my head. Granting that Tokyo is, obviously, enormous, and there are other population centers along the route to Sendai (primarily Utsunomiya and Fukushima), 7 trains per hour seems like a lot for what is ultimately not that populated a route. What are the ridership levels on a route like the Tohoku Shinkansen?

I'd imagine that, compared to China, where just about every city along the way from, e.g., Beijing to Shenyang, has multiple millions of people, it's lower,
Partly due to Chinese administrative terminology.
Tohoku Shinkansen serves the following prefectures:
Aomori Prefecture - area 9606 square km, population 1,373 millions
Iwate Prefecture - 15 278 square km, 1,332 millions
Miyagi Prefecture - 7285 square km, 2,321 millions
Fukushima Prefecture - 13 783 square km, 1,928 millions
Tochigi Prefecture - 6408 square km, 1,969 millions
Saitama Prefecture and Tokyo City are parts of Tokyo metropolis.

For comparison: Chengde prefecture level "city"
area 39 519 square km
population 3,610 millions
The area is about as big as the four prefectures of Tochigi, Fukushima, Miyagi and Iwate combined. But those 4 combine to a population of 7,5 millions.
Chaoyang prefecture level "city" - area 19 698 square km, population 3,045 millions
Fuxin prefecture level "city" - 10 445 square km, 1,819 millions
Jinzhou prefecture level "city" - 10 111 square km, 3,07 millions
Shenyang prefecture level "city" - 12 942 square km, 8,106 millions.
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Last edited by chornedsnorkack; July 30th, 2017 at 09:51 AM.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 10:19 AM   #11660
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I have copied (data from two or three years ago) 35 daily trains per direction only in the Joetshu Shinkansen, including 16 to Yamagata and 17 to Akita Mini-Shinkansen, since they are coupled. Those who go to Hokuriku (Nagano) and Joetsu Shinkansen are diverted in Omiya, long before the area to 320 kmh.

Tohoku Shinkansen had 82 million travelers in 2012 and since then JR East's Shinkansen traffic has increased by 10%.

In Spain, with a very small traffic, the AVE brand is the only one of Renfe that earns money (91 M € in 2016) and the infrastructure manager (Adif AV) enters from Renfe enough for maintenance (507,577 M € in 2016).
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