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Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:51 PM   #1221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
In which case it is natural that tickets are hard to get and too expensive for poor. Lowering the price would simply mean that the tickets are bought out by ticket dealers.

It remains to be seen what happens when more trains are completed and enter service. Can all people travel at reasonable prices?
No, the government builds the railways for money. Those capitalist officials would rather throw the milk away than giving it out to the poor people. This is how China works in recent years.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:51 PM   #1222
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Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Being unaware of the reason the station was planned like this is not a good reason to call the Chinese developers incompetent. They are surely better prepared than you to judge what's ideal, they know what are the issues to solve, etc. For one, I guess ample space is needed for cases like the Chinese New Year, or service interruptions, and many other situations.
shhhhh! he doesn't know, yet likes to keep talking.

there are 2, soon to be 3 railway stations in guangzhou, connected to the city and each other by subway.

kinda difficult to place a new railway station in central guangzhou...

once again... shhhhh!
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 10:23 PM   #1223
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true, what a retard
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 10:30 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
No, the government builds the railways for money. Those capitalist officials would rather throw the milk away than giving it out to the poor people.
At present, tickets are expensive and still hard to get. Therefore the tickets are not expensive enough (at higher ticket prices, fewer people would buy tickets, and they would be easy to get for those willing to pay).

In this situation, any extra train would bring more profit (extra trains mean more people can get tickets at expensive prices).

When will the ticket prices start to fall, because the capitalists can make bigger profits by selling more tickets although cheaper?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 11:10 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
I guess your vision of the forum is one of perpetual celebration. Using "troll" to designate anyone who voices concerns or criticisms, even if repeatedly, just makes that word meaningless. Seems to me he has a valid point, and, as Makita says, unless someone provides some detailed analysis and research, the issue is not really settled.

Frankly, your attempt to shut people up is by far more annoying than the so-called "trolls".

Believe me I am not trying to shut up anyone. I am actually a firm supporter of free speech and expression of ideas. However, here issue is a little bit different. You either didn't read the previous posts about this issue or ignoring them for another reason. Issue has been discussed in civil manner many times. what is annoying is after every single post related to new high speed stations (an update of construction, a new render etc) same "wow!, this station suck" messages. first it was the location of the stations, then their designs, then planning around the stations, finally whole city plan to blame..... again nothing wrong with the argument, I am annoyed with the tone and repetition.

I know the type. What I hate is hypocrisy. Any new development comes from China have a "but" with it. I ask the guy what he thinks about the new Kowloon station. No answers... Not surprised... I know he is against that station, too. Although it is perfect according to his ideal train station. And, actually, what is ironic is I agree that the ideal station should be in city center. However, for most of the Chinese cities it is really not feasible. Moreover, most of these cities already have couple of stations. At least one of them is in city center. Because of pace of the city development, population increase and creating a completely brand new nation wide high speed network, for most places it is great to have these specious stations. cheaper to build, you will feel pleasant to see them, to be inside them. Trains will be faster...

You cannot build penn station everywhere. and you should not either.

I am not trying to defend china. I hate many things about china. I just follow infrastructure projects and boy they are building great ones. I just don't like hypocrisy.

also, I am sorry everyone, I know you expect to see new nice photos about railways when you see "new post" sign. My last post about the issue.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 11:48 PM   #1226
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^don't bother. free speech means nothing if it's used to manipulate facts and twist the truth. the fact that our unnamed forumer says tons of crap, yet fails to present any cogent supporting arguments means that there's no point to taking him seriously.

anyway, because these stations have such high capacities, they'll have to occupy a large plot. how the hell can you fit THAT into the center of guangzhou? furthermore the plazas make sense because:

chinese cities are still lacking in public space, and


the plazas can be used to accommodate crush loads (e.g. the rush of lunar new year or weather related delays)
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Old February 4th, 2010, 03:11 AM   #1227
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Is there no one know China have 1.3 billion people, and over 0.2 billion people will use the railway transportation system for journey in 15 days during the Spring Festival?


a huge railway station is necessary, absolutely!


Guangzhou Railway Station (2008 Spring Festival)


the bus station near Guangzhou Railway Station (2008 Spring Festival)






2010 Spring Festival










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Old February 4th, 2010, 03:24 AM   #1228
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"10-minute metro journey from most core parts of the city"

Don't be ridiculous.

Last edited by HunanChina; February 4th, 2010 at 03:49 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 03:48 AM   #1229
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The Exiting Hall of Guangzhou South Railway Station

few months ago


satellite imagery
















Transfer Passage(will open half year later) to Guangzhou Metro System















Entrance Hall



temporary waiting hall and tent awning path on the square. ready for passenger flow of Spring Festival

Last edited by HunanChina; February 4th, 2010 at 04:07 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 07:08 AM   #1230
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haha cool pictures. Let's see what it will look like this year
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Old February 4th, 2010, 07:09 AM   #1231
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How to get to Guangzhou South Railway Station?

The Metro line have not linked with the Station, so, How to get to Guangzhou South Railway Station?

photo from Mr. 冷刀



Mr. 冷刀 set off in the morning at 6:30 and got to 创展中心 at 6:50
then take the south station express bus(14 RMB/1.4 euro) at 7:00 near the 创展中心


Guangzhou's morning


the bus arrived at Guangzhou South Railway Station at 7:50


Parking



Tent awning path, Guangzhou is a raining and hot city.







got to Entrance Hall at 8:00, nice.






You can get to transfer passage of Guangzhou Metro at this floor half year later.




escalator to floor 3






floor 2 , You can take Bus and Taxi at this floor afterwards.



Waiting Hall




Guangzhou Railway Station just opened partly(1/5). maybe the other 4/5 will open for Guangzhou-Guiyang 300km/h line, Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hongkong 350km/h line and Guangzhou-Fuzhou-Ningbo 250km/h line at 2 or 3 years later.
























Last edited by HunanChina; February 4th, 2010 at 07:47 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 08:11 AM   #1232
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Luoyang longmen Railway Station begin to sell ticket.












































Last edited by HunanChina; February 4th, 2010 at 08:20 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:10 PM   #1233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
The differences are almost entirely artificial and in perception. In terms of naturally evolving city layout and the need for inner-city redevelopment, there are far more similarities than some are prepared to admit.

Edit - sorry, thought I was responding to a different thread where I was particularly 'obtuse' about location selection.

More to the point, the fact that 'you can't pass through a station quickly' is not something to be proud of or should be accepted as the 'norm'. Railway competes against motoring and aviation in China as much as everywhere else. Sure the advantages of HSR are clear, but every time we make a compromise the adcantages get reduced, and likewise the overall advantages of HSR.
You still cannot understand that brand new city centers are being built around some of these new highspeed railway stations. So these new stations are located properly as they serve the influx of population into the cities. This is the situation in many cities in China, that you have problems coming to grasp with.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
"10-minute metro journey from most core parts of the city"

Don't be ridiculous.
How's that ridiculous. 10 minutes on the metro roughly equates to 4 to 5 stations, or 4 to 5 kilometres, which is a considerable distance.

In the case of Shanghai, Shanghai Station is 3 stops from People's Square, 5 stops (with one change) from Lujiazui, and 8 stops (~ 20 mins) takes you to Xujiahui which is the other side of the city centre.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:55 PM   #1235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Believe me I am not trying to shut up anyone. I am actually a firm supporter of free speech and expression of ideas. However, here issue is a little bit different. You either didn't read the previous posts about this issue or ignoring them for another reason. Issue has been discussed in civil manner many times. what is annoying is after every single post related to new high speed stations (an update of construction, a new render etc) same "wow!, this station suck" messages. first it was the location of the stations, then their designs, then planning around the stations, finally whole city plan to blame..... again nothing wrong with the argument, I am annoyed with the tone and repetition.
For the record I don't think I've ever used the word 'sucks'.

For goodness' sake, for every 'this station sucks' comment there are hundreds of 'this is awesome', 'amazing', 'it's going up this fast' argument - and I don't see them as non-valid, so chill out.

And it's not really repetition is it, as you yourself acknowledged, it's an intermittent stream of different but related points, and it'd be foolish to pretend they are not relevant.

Quote:
I know the type. What I hate is hypocrisy. Any new development comes from China have a "but" with it.
It's in your head. Any new development, anything, anywhere, inevitably will have a but in it.

Quote:
I ask the guy what he thinks about the new Kowloon station. No answers... Not surprised... I know he is against that station, too. Although it is perfect according to his ideal train station.
It would have been irresponsible for me to launch into an answer to which I had limited knowledge, but I'll come back to it now.

The new Kowloon station is on a site immediately adjacent to the existing business district, and a mere 2 km from Hong Hom Station. It represents a continuous growth of the exising centre, which is fundamentally different the situation of Guangzhou south.

The location of New Kowloon is partly why the whole project is so expensive, and is subject to such resistence, as the line has to pass through quite a lot of already built-up area. The difficulty is compounded as HK is already highly developed so buildings will be much more difficult to knock down. But this is worth it in the end. A parkway station near, say, the kcrc west depot site will be much easy to construct and link to, but it would have significantly reduced long-term benefits.

No, I'm not against change, I'm wary of changes not properly executed.

Quote:
And, actually, what is ironic is I agree that the ideal station should be in city center.
There, I'm glad we are at least reaching some sort of concensus.

Quote:
However, for most of the Chinese cities it is really not feasible.
I'd actually argue that there are great development opportunities to be tied in with railway development plans. All it requires is joined up thinking and coordinated approaches, which are clearly things yet to happen. The lack of feasibility is in politics much more than everything else.

Quote:
Moreover, most of these cities already have couple of stations. At least one of them is in city center.
But not all these stations are termini, and total terminating platform numbers are still nowhere near European cities of similar populations. And one city-centre station with a couple of parkway station clearly resembles a wrong balance.

Quote:
Because of pace of the city development, population increase and creating a completely brand new nation wide high speed network, for most places it is great to have these specious stations. cheaper to build, you will feel pleasant to see them, to be inside them.
As I've said, the pace of development actually represents opportunities for coordinated development, which is something developed countries do have have.

Quote:
Trains will be faster...
Only to be discounted by longer access journeys.

Quote:
You cannot build penn station everywhere. and you should not either.
Who says you should?

[QUOTE]I am not trying to defend china. I hate many things about china. [QUOTE]

Hmm but it's such a tabooed subject.

Quote:
I just follow infrastructure projects and boy they are building great ones. I just don't like hypocrisy.

also, I am sorry everyone, I know you expect to see new nice photos about railways when you see "new post" sign. My last post about the issue.
Why, I don't bite, I just tell it as it is, be it facts or my own opinions. This is afterall a forum, a place for discussions, exchanges of facts and opinions. Opinions are what keeps the world going round afterall.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #1236
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Originally Posted by NCT View Post
How's that ridiculous. 10 minutes on the metro roughly equates to 4 to 5 stations, or 4 to 5 kilometres, which is a considerable distance.

In the case of Shanghai, Shanghai Station is 3 stops from People's Square, 5 stops (with one change) from Lujiazui, and 8 stops (~ 20 mins) takes you to Xujiahui which is the other side of the city centre.

You want "10 minutes", Ok, tell me. Where will you want locate the new station as HUGE as Guangzhou South Railway Station? and HOW to locate?
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Old February 4th, 2010, 01:55 PM   #1237
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Originally Posted by NCT View Post
This is afterall a forum, a place for discussions, exchanges of facts and opinions. Opinions are what keeps the world going round afterall.
That it may be, but at least 5 people in the last few days have expressed their dislike as to the way you conduct yourself.

And no, opinions do not make the world go round.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 02:04 PM   #1238
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Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
You want "10 minutes", Ok, tell me. Where will you want locate the new station as HUGE as Guangzhou South Railway Station? and HOW to locate?
Don't put all the eggs in one basket.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #1239
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I think we can assume that the new stations being built will become the main station for their relevant cities, displacing the current old stations. Given that in the UK we’re still using stations 170 years old and have no intention of replacing them soon, don’t worry too much about the stations being out of the centre. The city centre will move to where the stations are over the coming decades. Metro lines and other transport links are also needed, of course, but when you take the long view there’s nothing to worry about.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 02:20 PM   #1240
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Most train stations in European city centres were actually outside the city when they were built. Of course most cities were relatively small in comparison to Chinese cities right now.
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