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Old August 9th, 2010, 04:35 PM   #1401
Ariel74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Ignorant about Qian Xuesen maybe don't know if he was a star student
And apropos star student, you have the word of his mentor, again, from wikipedia:

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Von Krmn wrote of Qian, “At the age of 36, he was an undisputed genius whose work was providing an enormous impetus to advances in high-speed aerodynamics and jet propulsion.”
and:

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In 1949, upon the recommendation of von Krmn, Qian became the first director of the Daniel and Florence Guggenheim Jet Propulsion Center at Caltech

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Old August 9th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #1402
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but my point still stands as how does he have any correlation with the space shuttle program that started in the 70's.
Depends on what you mean by "correlation". Yet again, from wikipedia:

Quote:
During this time, Colonel Qian worked on designing an intercontinental space plane. His work would inspire the X-20 Dyna-Soar, which itself would later influence the development of the American Space Shuttle.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 05:17 PM   #1403
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
which would probably not have been possible without the chinese invention of gunpowder.

Don't be carried away like Bandit is. Japan is not exactly a space-power, nor has it been particularly known for original ideas historically speaking.
Yeah Yeah Japan is the inferior younger brother of the Asian three.
The same old beat with the same old music.
Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
And apropos star student, you have the word of his mentor, again, from wikipedia:

Quote:
Von Krmn wrote of Qian, At the age of 36, he was an undisputed genius whose work was providing an enormous impetus to advances in high-speed aerodynamics and jet propulsion.
Any one can add narrative in Wikipedia.

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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Depends on what you mean by "correlation". Yet again, from wikipedia:
Quote:
During this time, Colonel Qian worked on designing an intercontinental space plane. His work would inspire the X-20 Dyna-Soar, which itself would later influence the development of the American Space Shuttle.
And Gene Roddenberry will be known as the idealist who inspired the "transporter" and "warp drive" when it actually become a reality.
You can also add Jules Verne as the idealist who came up with the idea nuclear powered submarines written within "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea".

As I have posted earlier the idea of space planes was not anything new since it was staple of Sci-Fi of those days.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #1404
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Yeah Yeah Japan is the inferior younger brother of the Asian three.
The same old beat with the same old music.
Get over it.
You said it, and you brought up the Japanese rocket-shooting festival. I don't think I have anything to "get over".


Quote:
Any one can add narrative in Wikipedia.
The portions that I quoted are all referenced. You can check out the quote from von Krmn yourself, for example. I did.


Quote:
And Gene Roddenberry will be known as the idealist who inspired the "transporter" and "warp drive" when it actually become a reality.
You can also add Jules Verne as the idealist who came up with the idea nuclear powered submarines written within "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea".

As I have posted earlier the idea of space planes was not anything new since it was staple of Sci-Fi of those days.
Working on a project that influenced another project that influenced the design of the space-schuttle is more than writing a sci-fi novel or simply having the "idea" of a space-plane. I don't want to push the point, but I think it is fair to say that, though Qian did not invent the space-shuttle (no one said he did), the link between Qian and the space-shuttle is obviously stronger than the link between the ancient Chinese idea/sci-fi novels on the one hand, and modern rockets on the other hand.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 11:48 PM   #1405
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You guys are just knit-picking. I don't why you're bothering to argue your own logic. Who's side tried to take credit for a Chinese vacuum-tube train just from an idea? Now all of the sudden you want argue against the same logic used to take credit to discredit when it doesn't work in your favor. You're contradicting yourself in obvious desperation to salvage the fact you got caught not knowing an important piece in history. What makes it worse than someone that just didn't know anything about it is you actually knew bits of that history but totally didn't know a Chinese man was a part of it? You can count the people involved on one hand and you didn't know? That's just sad and says a lot about where you're coming from. Can you really take anyone serious who believed false history just a post ago and then found out they were wrong by Googling it? I also love how one can use wikipedia and and then later question the reliability of wikipedia. Just like using logic to take credit and then discredit that very logic when it doesn't work in your favor anymore? There seems to be a pattern.

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Old August 13th, 2010, 11:19 AM   #1406
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No, its because US has no money and neither do most of the Western countries. Infact the West is fast running out of steam, while the East, on the other hand seems to be gaining momentum and if we dont up our game we are fcuked.
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No, we dont and I did not say that we did. However the West is looking a little bit tired these days, indeed just look at the state of our economies.
Could you read this page: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...912580&page=17

And then explain your pessimism again?
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Old August 14th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #1407
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Pessimism? I prefer to call it realism.
Economic growth of 1% is hardly cause for celebration, especially given the fact that property market is stalling, unemployement is increasing and of course, lets not forget that many countries are ridiculously in debt (USA will soon have to invent a new word to describe their debt) and are cutting everything and anything.
China and Asia, on the other hand, is growing, modernising and generally putting everyone to shame. We need to up our game if we are to stay competitve and not become a bloody irrelevance!
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Old August 15th, 2010, 01:09 AM   #1408
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Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Pessimism? I prefer to call it realism.
Economic growth of 1% is hardly cause for celebration, especially given the fact that property market is stalling, unemployement is increasing and of course, lets not forget that many countries are ridiculously in debt (USA will soon have to invent a new word to describe their debt) and are cutting everything and anything.
China and Asia, on the other hand, is growing, modernising and generally putting everyone to shame. We need to up our game if we are to stay competitve and not become a bloody irrelevance!
Innovation is the key to future success. Asia, Latin America, and Africa are all going to experience higher growth and more attention from investors looking for markets w/ higher rates of returns in the coming decades. So the only way for the old economic giants to stay as relevant as today will be to innovate.
Though with the case w/ America, I'm not trying to be bias but I think we have a better future economic outlook than Europe since we still have a growing population.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 05:56 AM   #1409
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It may possible to built this project.....
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Old August 15th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #1410
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Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Pessimism? I prefer to call it realism.
Economic growth of 1% is hardly cause for celebration, especially given the fact that property market is stalling, unemployement is increasing and of course, lets not forget that many countries are ridiculously in debt (USA will soon have to invent a new word to describe their debt) and are cutting everything and anything.
China and Asia, on the other hand, is growing, modernising and generally putting everyone to shame. We need to up our game if we are to stay competitve and not become a bloody irrelevance!
Germany has higher grow and the unemplement is falling. The US, well it doesn't look too good. But if they would stop using loads of billions for wars they might even manage to get it right.

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Originally Posted by đđeůx View Post
Though with the case w/ America, I'm not trying to be bias but I think we have a better future economic outlook than Europe since we still have a growing population.
Population doesn't matter, it i only per capita that counts. BTW Europe is growing (though immigration).
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Old August 16th, 2010, 04:38 AM   #1411
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Germany has higher grow and the unemplement is falling. The US, well it doesn't look too good. But if they would stop using loads of billions for wars they might even manage to get it right.


Population doesn't matter, it i only per capita that counts. BTW Europe is growing (though immigration).
And how long will that immigration last? Either immigrants will return to their newly booming African and Asian countries, or Europeans will start to backlash at one point or another and force governments to enact tougher immigration laws. I'll admit here in the US a good chunk of our growth comes from immigration, but if you remove that the already legal population residing here will increase the population as well.

Per capita is important, but if chosen, would you rather invest your money in an economy growing 1% a year, shrinking population, and higher purchasing power or one growing 8% a year, growing population, and smaller but rising purchasing power?

I feel as if this is getting off-topic, but anyways I think it's quite obvious that China has the money to experiment with this as compared to the west. We can debate all we want but no western country comes close to China's $2 trillion in reserves. Heck that's almost on-par w/ the entire GDP of France and the UK!
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Old August 16th, 2010, 08:23 AM   #1412
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Originally Posted by đđeůx View Post
Per capita is important, but if chosen, would you rather invest your money in an economy growing 1% a year, shrinking population, and higher purchasing power or one growing 8% a year, growing population, and smaller but rising purchasing power?
I not only would, but I do invest my money in the first.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #1413
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Just cooooooooooooooooooool,I wish that one day this will come ture!!!!!!!!!
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Old August 16th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #1414
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I not only would, but I do invest my money in the first.

Almost everyone else on this world prefer to invest in the second option. Investment figures are in front of you, screaming.

Moreover, purchasing power is increased all over the world because of the cheap labor China and some other far East countries have offered. We are buying those LCD TVs or Nike Shoes at todays prices thanks to China. Otherwise it would have been at least three times more expensive. People should actually appreciate China and its cheap labor for todays increased purchasing power. If you take out China out of economic system almost every single item in the mall will see a dramatic increase in the price for sure.

A growing China is a good thing. Not something to afraid or bash.

Without China do you think GE might have been saved? Could Germany have grown 2.2% in last quarter???

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Old August 16th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #1415
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Germany has higher grow and the unemplement is falling. The US, well it doesn't look too good. But if they would stop using loads of billions for wars they might even manage to get it right.
Indeed, but not all is well in Germany either - the Rhine-Ruhr is finding it very hard to compete with the East.

Europe could rebounce again if it put all of its energy into the Green Technologies. I believe we could be quite a player in this field.

As for America, they seem to view change of any shape or form and one which is not based on oil as communist and a threat to 'American way of life'. Stopping spending shitloads on military would be a good idea too. The Chinese spend much, much less on military, but still managed to achieve this -

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More doubts on the risks of deploying carriers from China's new missile capable of ten times the speed of sound:

China's Dong Feng 21D missile, a newly developed weapon, is said to be capable of destroying moving US aircraft carriers with pinpoint precision. This new weapon is causing concern among US military planners, according to an Associated Press report published Thursday.

The Dong Feng 21D reportedly has the range, at least 900 miles, and the ability to hit moving targets like aircraft carriers.

One of the hallmarks of the US aircraft carriers is their remarkable armor and defenses, but some analysts are saying that the Dong Feng 21D, an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), may have the capability to bypass these.

"The Navy has long had to fear carrier-killing capabilities,” Patrick Cronin, senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program at the Center for a New American Security, told AP.

“The emerging Chinese antiship missile capability, and in particular the DF 21D, represents the first post-Cold War capability that is both potentially capable of stopping our naval power projection and deliberately designed for that purpose,” Cronin added.

A 2009 Jamestown Foundation report acknowledges intelligence factors that "suggest that China may be close to fielding, testing, or employing an ASBM—a weapon that no other country possesses." The report also asserts that there are "considerable unknowns" about the Chinese military's ASBM capabilites.

The Chinese regime, in recent years, has been against the US's presence in the South China Sea, Yellow Sea, and the East Sea.

While the missile might not be a complete game-changer in the Pacific, it could be detrimental to the US collective psyche of being able to travel anywhere using aircraft carriers.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates last year said a missile such as the Dong Feng 21D has the “ability to disrupt [America's] freedom of movement and narrow our strategic options.”

Reports say that the Dong Feng 21D is small and inexpensive to produce.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 07:47 PM   #1416
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Old August 17th, 2010, 02:00 AM   #1417
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I not only would, but I do invest my money in the first.
You are outnumbered by those who choose option #2. An investor will look for new markets, markets that are growing rapidly, and that is exactly what China will offer.

I wonder though, if this is made who will manufacture it. Chinese train makers (if there are any) or maybe a western company.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 08:45 AM   #1418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by đđeůx View Post
You are outnumbered by those who choose option #2. An investor will look for new markets, markets that are growing rapidly, and that is exactly what China will offer.
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Almost everyone else on this world prefer to invest in the second option. Investment figures are in front of you, screaming.
You make it a little bit too simple. In investment there is a triangle, or magic rubber band between three factors.
-Investment rate
-Risk
-Availability

If you want to go for a high rate, you will increase risk or have less availability. If you want to have more availability you will usually have a lower rate ect.

I currently have only save investments, one part with high availability and lower rates and one with high rates but limited withdrawals.

This is absolutely sufficient for me, as the inflation in Switzerland is almost zero.

Of course I could invest in other countries but the risk will increase and the availability will decrease.

There is no free cake.
Quote:
Moreover, purchasing power is increased all over the world because of the cheap labor China and some other far East countries have offered. We are buying those LCD TVs or Nike Shoes at todays prices thanks to China. Otherwise it would have been at least three times more expensive. People should actually appreciate China and its cheap labor for todays increased purchasing power. If you take out China out of economic system almost every single item in the mall will see a dramatic increase in the price for sure.

A growing China is a good thing. Not something to afraid or bash.

Without China do you think GE might have been saved? Could Germany have grown 2.2% in last quarter???
Economically speaking increased trade and trade partners are a good thing. But politically I see some problems, but that would be even more off topic.

Anyway my point was not to bash China but actually to say that Europe is far from dead, but as we say in German "Todgesagte leben lnger" (Those who are said to be dead live longer)
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Old August 18th, 2010, 03:10 AM   #1419
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Yes Europe isn't dead, but it's haydays are gone, and it definitely won't be shining like China and other developing nations in coming decades.

You are right that risk is high and availability low in developing nations, but that will all change as they continue to grow, and more investors again will choose option #2.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #1420
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Yes Europe isn't dead, but it's haydays are gone, and it definitely won't be shining like China and other developing nations in coming decades.
Of course, it's called saturation, and China will hopefully reach it one day too. Reaching saturation is IMO a good thing, because it means you have reached a high level, while stagnation on the other hand is standing still on a low level.
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