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Old October 22nd, 2010, 10:50 PM   #1481
Knuddel Knutsch
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yup, thats it, the Tangshan CNR Maglev train, which they presented to the public in April.

Thats the one that test-runs on the SMTDC track in Shanghai/pudong .

Its really surprising that it takes so long until we actually get pics of the train on the track (dont confuse it with the german transrapid, which has different front lights and a different interior )

No trainspotters around who already had it in Front of their Lense ?
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 12:07 AM   #1482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railfan View Post
Why don´t apply cavitation effect to the hyper-speed train?
Because air is less dense than water, so the effect will not be significant at all.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 01:03 AM   #1483
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Quote:
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Because air is less dense than water, so the effect will not be significant at all.
Travelling at high speed the air behaves like a fluid providing great strength and that's what makes it economically unfeasible trains traveling at 500km/h or 750km/h as a plane.

An active vacuum system on the train journey within a bubble may reduce friction at the point of dispensing with a vacuum tunnel that is much more expensive, that's my humble idea.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 03:55 AM   #1484
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it's completly feasible and it's been done:

In April 2007, the TGV broke its own 1990 record with a speed of 574.8 km/h (357.18 mph) under test conditions with a shortened train (two power cars and three passenger cars) and larger wheels to reduce angular speed in the motors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...ns_in_test_run

the same TGV that did 574km/h with larger wheels, only reached 380km/h with conventional wheels

world record with conventional wheels: 416.6 km/h CRH380A Electric China 2010-09-28 11:40 On Shanghai–Hangzhou High-Speed Railway

if we do cross-multiplication (I know it's not accurate at all for this but I do it for having an idea), a short CRH380A with large wheels could reach 628km/h

if TGV already did 574km/h then aerodinamics is not a huge problem. IT'S DONE!
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 04:14 AM   #1485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
it's completly feasible and it's been done:

In April 2007, the TGV broke its own 1990 record with a speed of 574.8 km/h (357.18 mph) under test conditions with a shortened train (two power cars and three passenger cars) and larger wheels to reduce angular speed in the motors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...ns_in_test_run

the same TGV that did 574km/h with larger wheels, only reached 380km/h with conventional wheels

world record with conventional wheels: 416.6 km/h CRH380A Electric China 2010-09-28 11:40 On Shanghai–Hangzhou High-Speed Railway

if we do cross-multiplication (I know it's not accurate at all for this but I do it for having an idea), a short CRH380A with large wheels could reach 628km/h

if TGV already did 574km/h then aerodinamics is not a huge problem. IT'S DONE!
It's a bit more complicated since CHR380A is an EMU meaning complete synchronization of all the motors in extreme condition must be achieved.
Also the smaller motors situated in the boogies needs to withstand the higher amount of electrical power without overheating. The transfer also needs to be in complete synch with each other.
Not saying it can't be done just that with the difference in configuration the hurdle is much higher.

As for commercial utilization forget it.
It's much more economically sensible to utilize maglevs if you consider the amount of energy necessary to power conventional HSR compared to maglevs at those speeds.

Last edited by SamuraiBlue; October 23rd, 2010 at 04:25 AM.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 08:05 AM   #1486
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The Wuhan train station is just awesome, love the curvy roof.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 09:56 AM   #1487
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My idea to improve the aerodynamics of a train of steel wheels with a no-conventional active vacuum is it economically efficient from any point of view.

Hopefully the train in question to develop and test a platform for future technologies
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Old October 24th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #1488
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I think that Shanghai Hongqiao Railway Station is too big and unfriendly, ugly.

I like Suzhou's. Look at here...

image hosted on flickr



image hosted on flickr



image hosted on flickr
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Old October 25th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #1489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
it's completly feasible and it's been done:

In April 2007, the TGV broke its own 1990 record with a speed of 574.8 km/h (357.18 mph) under test conditions with a shortened train (two power cars and three passenger cars) and larger wheels to reduce angular speed in the motors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...ns_in_test_run

the same TGV that did 574km/h with larger wheels, only reached 380km/h with conventional wheels

world record with conventional wheels: 416.6 km/h CRH380A Electric China 2010-09-28 11:40 On Shanghai–Hangzhou High-Speed Railway

if we do cross-multiplication (I know it's not accurate at all for this but I do it for having an idea), a short CRH380A with large wheels could reach 628km/h

if TGV already did 574km/h then aerodinamics is not a huge problem. IT'S DONE!
This doesn't make sense. The laws of physics require power to go fast, its not dictated by the size of the wheels. The TGV record attempt had much more power - not only were the locomotives providing power but the cars also had motors in the axles to test the traction package for the AGV (it wasn't just a pointless media exercise) and the OHLE was increased in power.

As you say the wheels were made larger to avoid over-speeding the motors, but if they hadn't given the train more power it wouldn't have gone faster to need larger wheels.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 07:48 PM   #1490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
This doesn't make sense. The laws of physics require power to go fast, its not dictated by the size of the wheels. The TGV record attempt had much more power - not only were the locomotives providing power but the cars also had motors in the axles to test the traction package for the AGV (it wasn't just a pointless media exercise) and the OHLE was increased in power.

As you say the wheels were made larger to avoid over-speeding the motors, but if they hadn't given the train more power it wouldn't have gone faster to need larger wheels.
Of course you need more power to go faster but what Luli Pop said makes sense. French used larger wheels to decrease the stress on engines otherwise they wouldn't have done it, right? To his defense, he is not saying large wheels is the only thing to go faster..

Last edited by foxmulder; October 25th, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #1491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Of course you need more power to go faster but what Luli Pop said makes sense. French used larger wheels to decrease the stress on engines otherwise they wouldn't have done it, right? To his defense, he is not saying large wheels is the only thing to go faster..
So what's the bad side of using larger wheels? There must be a reason for not using them more often then, I don't know, just asking
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Old October 25th, 2010, 08:29 PM   #1492
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Quote:
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So what's the bad side of using larger wheels? There must be a reason for not using them more often then, I don't know, just asking
Larger wheels mean a higher top speed, but lower tractive effort. Just look at steam engines. Those for passenger trains had large wheels, those for freight trains smaller wheels.
In the case of the French record train they could get away with enlarging the wheels as the total weight of the train was reduced (by shortening it). On a real full length TGV having larger wheels would reduce acceleration to much , which is not really desired.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #1493
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Quote:
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So what's the bad side of using larger wheels? There must be a reason for not using them more often then, I don't know, just asking
You will need more torque to spin larger wheels. Generally higher torques generated by "slow" engines like trucks vs sports cars. Some sport cars have more hp than 18 wheelers but have much less torque. However, to be honest I don't know how this translates for electrical engines used by high speed trains. I suspect smt similar going on. You cannot carry heavy loads with larger wheels. Also, I think acceleration would have been slower with larger wheels. So for record breaking larger wheels is probably better; for everyday use smaller ones
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #1494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
The laws of physics require power to go fast, its not dictated by the size of the wheels. The TGV record attempt had much more power
Yes, there was definitely power involved: 27'000 hp for just 5 cars. This makes more than 5'000 hp per car!
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #1495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Larger wheels mean a higher top speed, but lower tractive effort. Just look at steam engines. Those for passenger trains had large wheels, those for freight trains smaller wheels.
In the case of the French record train they could get away with enlarging the wheels as the total weight of the train was reduced (by shortening it). On a real full length TGV having larger wheels would reduce acceleration to much , which is not really desired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
You will need more torque to spin larger wheels. Generally higher torques generated by "slow" engines like trucks vs sports cars. Some sport cars have more hp than 18 wheelers but have much less torque. However, to be honest I don't know how this translates for electrical engines used by high speed trains. I suspect smt similar going on. You cannot carry heavy loads with larger wheels. Also, I think acceleration would have been slower with larger wheels. So for record breaking larger wheels is probably better; for everyday use smaller ones
thanks you both crystal clear answers hehe
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Old October 26th, 2010, 10:50 AM   #1496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
if TGV already did 574km/h then aerodinamics is not a huge problem. IT'S DONE!
And the track had to be repaired after two test runs.

350 km/hr is considered to be the limit of safe HSR service speed. Every km/hr above 350 km/hr is a struggle.
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Old November 16th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #1497
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Bridge-erecting work began on Hami Grand Bridge

Original text and video: http://www.xj.xinhuanet.com/2010-11/...t_21359805.htm

Bridge-erecting work on Hami Grand Bridge, the longest viaduct of the Xinjiang section of the Lanxin Line, began on November 8. The viaduct is 19.3 kilometers long, 13.6 meters wide, consists 593 spans with the maximum span length is 100 meters. The work is set to complete in October 2011.

The designed life expectancy of the bridge is 100 years. The total investment is 670 million yuan (101 million USD). The bridge will cross Tianshan Town, Taojiagong Town, Nongshisanshihongxingyichang, and urban Hami city. It will ensure high-speed trains running safely in urban areas, and decrease the use of arable land by 23,000+ mu (15+ km^2).

The Xinjiang section of the line is 713.4 km, of which, the Hami section is more than half, total length is 356.33 km. The Hami section is being built in 4 bid sections, total investment 29.704 billion yuan. The bridge-erecting work indicates the construction of the railway has switched from subgrade rock work phase to rail track structure phase.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 10:05 AM   #1498
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CHINA | High Speed Rail

http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2...c_12815246.htm
http://www.xinhui.gov.cn/export/xinh...105171429.html

China starts development of CRH6 regional high speed train.

CSR is planning to open its' new factory at Jiangmen city, Guangdong province, the CSR Guangdong factory will manufacturer a new generation Chinese high speed train, CRH6, this time it's not for higher speed, the CRH6 is developed for service at 200km/h and 250km/h regional Intercity High Speed rail, the top speed of CRH6 is 220 km/h, designed by CSR, the first trainset planned to rolled off by next year, the CRH6 will service Guangzhou-Dongguan-Shenzhen ICL, Dongguan-Huizhou ICL, Chengdu regional ICL, Zhongyuan ICL (Zhengzhou,Luoyang and other citiesin Henan Province), Changsha-Zhuzhou-Xiangtan ICL and Wuhan regional ICL.

Last edited by greenlion; November 26th, 2010 at 10:53 AM.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 10:48 AM   #1499
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What is the design concept of this train?
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Old November 26th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #1500
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Very encouraging - hopefully the new train will have an original exterior design and be a true alternative to imported models.
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