Somali Politics | Siyaasada Soomaalida

[Ajepako]

for using it's resources to bring peace to a troubled neighbor?
you guys may like politics and all, it's fun when you forget that people are dying for reasons not worth a human life. this isn't a video game, this is real life, and the efforts of any group of people the end the killing of another group should be commended. I don't care is satan bankrolls it, and there's nobody with the courage to stand up to the problem.


Nigeria has declared that when the UN allows peacekeepers to fire back if shot at they're going in full force because they want to focus on peace enforcement not just peace keeping.

[Janub]

Another spin in the Somali saga - Al-Shabaab begins to train female brigade.

Hundreds of Somali women are recruited and trained in the southern port city of Kismayo by the al-Shabaab, a Somali insurgent faction embracing a radical form of Islam similar to the harsh, conservative brand practiced by Afghanistan's Taliban regime, Radio Garowe Reports.

Garowe Online received reports that indicate the trainers which were approximately 150 soldiers were matching in the street of Kismayo with AK47 on Saturday.

“The recruiters were teenagers who need to be trained more, so that they participate fighting against our enemies [AMISOM] because every Muslim is must join the jihad [holy war],” said Al-Shabaab leader in Kismayo, Sheikh Hassan Yaqub.

Al-Shabbab has increased its territorial control to much of central and southern Somalia and is stepping up recruitment of foreign jihadists.

The UN reported that the extremist Islamist group generally doesn't recruit girls for combat roles, but does use them to carry out tasks like cooking, cleaning, transporting detonators, and collecting intelligence. The report identified an al-Shabaab training camp near the southern city of Kismayo, where about 120 girls learned intelligence-gathering techniques and how to transport explosives and drive. Some of the girls were also recruited to marry the male fighters.

The Horn of Africa nation is turning out to be an al-Qaeda safe haven, with terrorist-linked groups like al-Shabaab controlling large swaths of southern and central regions and waging deadly insurgency against the UN-backed Somali government. Along with other insurgent groups such as Hisbul Islam, al-Shabaab has trapped the country's UN- and U.S.-backed Transitional Federal Government into a small part of Mogadishu, the Somali capital.

[lordangers5]

Originally Posted by Ajepako

Nigeria has declared that when the UN allows peacekeepers to fire back if shot at they're going in full force because they want to focus on peace enforcement not just peace keeping.

I truely love Nigeria.
It's shown the world that peace making can work with the likes of ECOMOG. Imagine a UN mission took it's place before the Nigerians went in...... they didnt even want to go in till ECOMOG had calmed the place down. Bring on the Nigerians!

[Janub]

Only problem is that Freetown isn't Mogadishu. Its quite easy to flex your muscles against tame Sierra Leone rebel bands, try that wild west stuff in Somalia and see the how far it goes, I'm sure you Lord Ranger of all people should know how well that panned out. Only Uganda has so far shown willingness to venture into the lion's den. I lost hope that Somalia could be tamed when Ethiopia, which easily has the best military history in Africa, could not do the job, I'm not confident Uganda or anyone could pull it off at this stage, maybe send NATO in and see how that works out, nothing less will cut it.

[Ajepako]

not in the end of the day you need to send in african forces because africans know how to deal with africans


americans saw an american troop being dragged by a rope dead in the street and got cold feet. Africans wouldn't flinch.



Nigeria refuses to go under the UN banner because it's fighting to get the rules on engagement changed in the UN.

Sierra Leone and Liberia were calmed down because it was an african force playing by african rules and dealing with african people.

the UN rules of engagement don't make sense for any wartime setting especially an african one, Nigeria is therefore advocating what Goodluck Jonathan has called "Peace Enforcement" as opposed to "Peace Keeping"

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by Ajepako

not in the end of the day you need to send in african forces because africans know how to deal with africans


americans saw an american troop being dragged by a rope dead in the street and got cold feet. Africans wouldn't flinch.



Nigeria refuses to go under the UN banner because it's fighting to get the rules on engagement changed in the UN.

Sierra Leone and Liberia were calmed down because it was an african force playing by african rules and dealing with african people.

the UN rules of engagement don't make sense for any wartime setting especially an african one, Nigeria is therefore advocating what Goodluck Jonathan has called "Peace Enforcement" as opposed to "Peace Keeping"

Delusion if I ever heard one.
Somalis know how to deal with other Somalis. Non Somalis will never have that same advantage

[Ajepako]

If somalians knew how to deal with somalians this thread wouldn't exist.

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by Ajepako

If somalians knew how to deal with somalians this thread wouldn't exist.

It is precisely because of this delusion it exists, foreign interference and the foolish thought that somehow getting unwanted soldiers on Somali soil will fix it when all it has done is exacerbate problems. Perhaps if everyone understood from the beginning, this thread would not exist

Uganda will fail, as Ethiopia did and as US previously did as well.

[The Nomadic Warrior]

Originally Posted by Lailax

It is precisely because of this delusion it exists, foreign interference and the foolish thought that somehow getting unwanted soldiers on Somali soil will fix it when all it has done is exacerbate problems. Perhaps if everyone understood from the beginning, this thread would not exist

Uganda will fail, as Ethiopia did and as US previously did as well.

+1

[abesha]

Originally Posted by Ajepako

If somalians knew how to deal with somalians this thread wouldn't exist.

That's the truth. If not, A. the country wouldn't have collapsed to begin with, and B. The entire 90s (after US left) and most of the 2000s, Somalians were left alone - where was this miraculous peace that supposedly happens with non-interference?

[Xusein]

They did figure it out on their own, but the ideology was not palatable for outsiders.

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by Xusein

They did figure it out on their own, but the ideology was not palatable for outsiders.

+1

[abesha]

Originally Posted by Xusein

They did figure it out on their own, but the ideology was not palatable for outsiders.

Becoming another Taliban-ruled Afghanistan is not a solution that a society heading in the right direction comes up with. That's replacing one type of cancer with another: at the end, it's still a cancer.

[Xusein]

Yeah, that's why I said it wasn't palatable for outsiders. It was a solution but not the ones that was wanted by the West. Of course, pushing a pretty much non-existent government that has no legitimacy is just as foolish and dangerous but nobody will admit that.

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by abesha

Becoming another Taliban-ruled Afghanistan is not a solution that a society heading in the right direction comes up with. That's replacing one type of cancer with another: at the end, it's still a cancer.

Rubbish.

The Islamists in 06 were never as bad as people thought, the moderates had control and the public was willing to put up with some of the tough rules for the stability but it would have eventually turned over when peace happened and the populace wouldn't stand for the ban forever (No Samatar ever again? Wouldn't have happened)

But once again, foreigners went all moral on Somalia and overthrew their choice in Government and once again attempt to force on the country a board of crackpots and corrupt bastards who have no legitimacy or authority as if that will solve the issue.

[abesha]

Originally Posted by Lailax

Rubbish.

The Islamists in 06 were never as bad as people thought, the moderates had control and the public was willing to put up with some of the tough rules for the stability but it would have eventually turned over when peace happened and the populace wouldn't stand for the ban forever (No Samatar ever again? Wouldn't have happened)

But once again, foreigners went all moral on Somalia and overthrew their choice in Government and once again attempt to force on the country a board of crackpots and corrupt bastards who have no legitimacy or authority as if that will solve the issue.

So they would have accepted a government they didn't want, to then eventually throw them out too? To be replaced by whom? To me it seems like it would have gone back to where it was pre-UIC.
That still doesn't sound like it would have resulted in a sustainable solution.

[Constantine MMX]

Originally Posted by abesha

That's the truth. If not, A. the country wouldn't have collapsed to begin with,

Plenty of countries collapsed or went through a crisis, the Ethiopian Civil War being the most vivid example, it claimed several million lives over the span of two decades, Somalia can't even touch that kind of bloodspilling and carnage, even with Anarchy having being omnipresent in the South for two decades.

Lets keep things in persepective.

and B. The entire 90s (after US left) and most of the 2000s, Somalians were left alone -

- Somaliland a region in Somalia the size of Eritrea and with a similar population was turned into a peaceful oasis during that time, BY SOMALIS

- Puntland a region in Somalia the size of Senegal and a population the size of Mauritania was turned into a stable region during that time, BY SOMALIS

- The South and other smaller regions were following this natural process, as one can see from the ICU period and the current Galmudug, again BY SOMALIS.

where was this miraculous peace that supposedly happens with non-interference?

You gotta be FREAKING kidding me , foreign meddling never stopped after the withdrawal of US/UN troops, there is an entire wiki article dedicated to America and its regional proxies destructive role. Mind you, your country's name is mentioned alot, I know you don't like the mention of Ethiopia, and get angry when it happens, but own up, that miraculous peace you are asking for did happen and we all know what particular event destroyed it.

If you prefer keeping those blinkers on, by all means do so, but your not going to fool us with this revisionistic history.

Originally Posted by Ajepako

If somalians knew how to deal with somalians this thread wouldn't exist.

Lailax completely shut down your argument, but lets entertain it a little bit further; show me one example during the Civil strife where foreign intervention brought stability to Somalia?

-Anything comparable to Somali grassroots projects like Somaliland, Puntland, Galmudug and ICU pacification of the South that constitute 99% of the country?

- Billion dollar warships can't even stop young rag-tag pirates, compare this to Somalis completely shutting down their operations in 2006, before the illegal invasion.

These are massive examples of Somalis successfuly dealing with other Somalis and their problems, there is nothing comparable on the part of foreigners.

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by abesha

So they would have accepted a government they didn't want, to then eventually throw them out too? To be replaced by whom? To me it seems like it would have gone back to where it was pre-UIC.
That still doesn't sound like it would have resulted in a sustainable solution.

Who said anything about throw out?
I said reform quietly. It would have happened.

All that is necessary is the example of Somaliland to shut down any delusions by non Somalis that foreign interference is helpful. If Somaliland was invaded by Ethiopia, US, had foreign money from the beginning. We'd be in the same position as the South.

[Xusein]

The Islamists in 2006 were the best solution for Mogadishu at the time. Other political movements at the time were permanently stained by their abuses in the war. The warlords were interested in keeping the status quo, leeching off the community while lying to the Westerners and Kenyans by holding peace talks that were never intended to actually bring peace.

I don't agree with everything that the Islamists did, but they were at least able to get rid of that warlord cancer, until Ethiopia and the US tried to put them back in. It's a shame that they prefer a warlord ravaged Somalia than a Islamist one.

[abesha]

Originally Posted by Constantine MMX

Plenty of countries collapsed or went through a crisis, the Ethiopian Civil War being the most vivid example, it claimed several million lives over the span of two decades, Somalia can't even touch that kind of bloodspilling and carnage, even with Anarchy having being omnipresent in the South for two decades.

Lets keep things in persepective.

You are really grasping at straws. When exactly during the civil war did Ethiopia collapse and descend into complete and total anarchy??? The entire state aparatus in Somalia is non-existent and that certainly didn't happen next door.

- Somaliland a region in Somalia the size of Eritrea and with a similar population was turned into a peaceful oasis during that time, BY SOMALIS

- Puntland a region in Somalia the size of Senegal and a population the size of Mauritania was turned into a stable region during that time, BY SOMALIS

- The South and other smaller regions were following this natural process, as one can see from the ICU period and the current Galmudug, again BY SOMALIS.

Why didn't they band together as one country?

You gotta be FREAKING kidding me , foreign meddling never stopped after the withdrawal of US/UN troops, there is an entire wiki article dedicated to America and its regional proxies destructive role. Mind you, your country's name is mentioned alot, I know you don't like the mention of Ethiopia, and get angry when it happens, but own up, that miraculous peace you are asking for did happen and we all know what particular event destroyed it.

If you prefer keeping those blinkers on, by all means do so, but your not going to fool us with this revisionistic history.

Every country in the 3rd world deals with foreign meddling in their affairs yet Somalia is the ONLY one that collapses and stays collapsed. Why is that?

There's nothing revisionist about this. The reality is that Somalis are not willing to work together; if they were Somaliland + Puntland could have stabilized the rest of the country. That didn't happen did it. It's every man for himself.

Blame it on Ethiopia if you like, but your country will NEVER EVER solve its issues if you are always looking to blame outsiders for your problems. Only YOU can assert control over what happens there as you guys keep repeating here, but you are not doing the necessary work for that. You have to own your internal problems first and accept that if foreigners are meddling to the point you are left on your knees, it's because you let them get to you.