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Old December 6th, 2010, 09:46 PM   #21
DanielFigFoz
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In Portugal, the traffic from the right goes first rule does exist, but people simply give way to the major road, simply because they don't want to be crashed into Most junctions have stop or give way signs anyway.

In the UK, I have never seen all way stops, but I have seen an all way give way before, and one of the road websites has a page on a neighbourhood in Nottingham (I think) full of all way give ways.
The case of an all way give way that I know is on Feltham High Street. Traffic coming from the southbound High Street's bus lane has a give way line, traffic from the High Street southbound also face a give way line, as does traffic coming from Victoria Road.

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Old December 6th, 2010, 10:04 PM   #22
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The Irish way is a little complicated.

Most of the time the priority is assumed unless there are yield or stop signs or and/or markings. No need to use the priority diamond (though it might be reassuring).

However the higher class road should have priority if it's not explicitly marked. The class of the road is shown by the advance junction warning signs, the little diagram will have equally weighted lines or one line will be thicker if that road is the higher class one (this sounds more confusing than it is). I.E. a regional road will yield to a national one, a local yields to a regional etc.

If there's a junction with two roads of equal importance, and it's unmarked, the yield to the right rule applies. Basically an invisible roundabout exists.

In practice the (lack of) priority is nearly always clearly marked by road markings and the presence of yield or stop signs.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #23
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In Bulgaria the rule for priority to the right-comer will only be used on streets that are obviously same level, I mean a small street coming to an avenue will certainly not have priority. In most of the cases, tough, there is additional marking with a sign.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 11:26 PM   #24
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In the UK there is no default priority rule - so signs always dictate who has priority (i.e. you always have priority unless there is a "give way" sign).

In Ireland, theoretically, at unmarked crossing yield to the right still applies, but is very rare.

Problem is when a set of traffic lights goes, there's no rule! At least in Europe on rural roads, you know if there's no sign.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 01:56 AM   #25
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In the UK there is no default priority rule - so signs always dictate who has priority (i.e. you always have priority unless there is a "give way" sign).

In Ireland, theoretically, at unmarked crossing yield to the right still applies, but is very rare.

Problem is when a set of traffic lights goes, there's no rule! At least in Europe on rural roads, you know if there's no sign.
In Portugal, sometimes traffic lights have a stop or give way sign attached to them, especially if they are turned of a lot. There's a traffic light junction in Figueira, that is off quite often (on Sunday's I think)

In regards to the UK, there is no specific rule at turned off traffic lights, you have to "proceed with caution". This probably make sit a all way stop in effect.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #26
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The junction is equal priority, when the traffic lights are out, although what often happens is the side road ends up backlogged with traffic unable to make it into the intersection.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #27
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As an American, and being used to American signage, that sign tells me:
HEY!

It specifies no specific hazard, just the vague possibility that somewhere ahead your vehicle may be compelled to force-feed you the windshield and/or steering wheel.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 07:41 AM   #28
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In Canada (at least Ontario), the priority-from-the-right rule does officially exist and is in the books, but in practice it is never applied, and frankly, exactly because we have neither the yellow diamond nor the priority intersection sign (i.e. fat arrow going through a narrow line), it is impossible to really apply it - in other words, it would be dangerous to do so.

The only way you would know that you have to yield to the right is by inspecting the intersecting road and making sure there is no yield or stop sign there - but that never happens in practice and no one does that. I guess the rule exists in the books simply as a default condition, just in case.

However, I like not having this system though (in other words, I like the UK-style system we have in North America). The priorite-a-droite system does make sense, but I think that in practice in modern conditions it is unnecessarily complicated. For example, it is unintuitive to have to yield to the right at a T-intersection, driving through the "top" of the T.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 09:47 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
As an American, and being used to American signage, that sign tells me:
HEY!

It specifies no specific hazard, just the vague possibility that somewhere ahead your vehicle may be compelled to force-feed you the windshield and/or steering wheel.
That's not weird, since you're not used to such signs. However, once you understand its meaning, you can drive in several dozen countries which have maybe over 60 languages and still understand the signs. That's the whole concept. Such a thing doesn't work in the United States, which is almost as large as a continent, with fewer foreign vehicles with drivers that do not understand English and a large amount of the population who will never go to a country with another language in their entire life.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #30
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In Belgium, the Yellow Diamond Priority signs are used very often on all priority roads. If nothing is signed (though very often the sign below, meaning "intersection" is then used), it's the usual priority from the right.



Very often the Diamond Priority sign gets accompanied or replaced with this sign that shows to drivers on the priority roads that there is an intersection ahead in which they have priority:


There are many variations of this sign, all meant to make clearer to the driver in which way that road connects to the priority road.

I feel that this sign is a lot clearer than the Yellow Diamond sign because it could also be understood by people who don't know our signs too well.

Up until a couple of years ago we had a peculiarity in the system though: if a vehicle coming from the right on a regular intersection would stop, it would lose its priority. I never understood why they did this because it only caused accidents... They changed it now so that someone coming from the right will always keep their priority, even if they stop.

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Old December 7th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #31
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Sorry I was unclear - what I meant was that sometimes on continental Europe you can be driving down a 'main' street but must yield/give way to traffic coming from the right, even if it's coming off a side street onto 'your' street.
if that happens you aren't on a main street but on an equal street that is crossed by another equal street.

it might look like your road is bigger but actually isn't a main road. Its not really about size, but traffic volumes and other local factors. If you are on a main road
you have right of way and you will not have to yield to vehicles from the right.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 07:54 PM   #32
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These, too, are standard Vienna Convention signs.

I am still intrigued that UK and Ireland also have yielding-to-the-right, contrary to the continental rule.

OK, imagining the intersection as a tiny roundabout definitely helps. And as I now see, the Brits & Irish therefore do not need "Give Way" signs on roundabout entrances. We here in mainland Europe do, since otherwise entering traffic would have priority, as per the the right-hand rule.

There's just one possible downside to the British & Irish rule—that I can see. If driver is sitting on the right, then the car's A-pillar obstructs the view and makes traffic on the right actually harder to observe.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #33
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These, too, are standard Vienna Convention signs.

I am still intrigued that UK and Ireland also have yielding-to-the-right, contrary to the continental rule.

OK, imagining the intersection as a tiny roundabout definitely helps. And as I now see, the Brits & Irish therefore do not need "Give Way" signs on roundabout entrances. We here in mainland Europe do, since otherwise entering traffic would have priority, as per the the right-hand rule.

There's just one possible downside to the British & Irish rule—that I can see. If driver is sitting on the right, then the car's A-pillar obstructs the view and makes traffic on the right actually harder to observe.
In the UK and Ireland, give way/yield signs are common but not universal.

In the UK, there is a rule saying that you have to give way to traffic already on a roundabout. This law also exists in Portugal, as far as I know, as an exeption to roundabouts.

P.S, I did some research and I found that indeed, in Portugal there is an exception for roundabouts and you have to automatically give way, but that in the past this wasn't the case, and still isn't where posted.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #34
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This used to be used in the UK and it meant "junction ahead"



This does exist in the UK, and is quite common.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #35
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In Israel, as far as I know, the exception for roundabouts is also universal (so yield signs aren't needed, though they may be there), but the "roundabout" sign (blue circle with white circular arrows) must be present to classify the junction as a roundabout.

Because of this, there is a somewhat common intersection type that can be confusing - a junction that looks like a roundabout (though is usually more oblong), but with no such roundabout sign. It's not actually a roundabout because there is crossing traffic with yield signs in the middle of the "roundabout" from some directions. In that case there is no "roundabout" sign at the approach, which means that approaching traffic can just continue through straight as if it's a priority junction (but drivers turning left by going around will encounter yield signs).
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Old December 8th, 2010, 12:58 PM   #36
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In Greece we have triangle priority signs; i dont remember seen a yellow diamond sign. Probably we havent such signs
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Old December 8th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
How then do you clarify priority, what's the rule? Is the driver expected to know which road is the major and which is the minor and assume priority based on that? It all seems a little ambiguous..

..which is why I think the priority to the right combined with the diamond priority sign (or any sign meaning the same) is a better solution. In my view traffic laws, signs and markings should always be as clear as possible to remove ambiguity, which this system does: You will always know who has priority and who must yield.

The system is simple and effective: Priority to the right is the base rule. On top of that you can have yield and stop signs, but then you also need the priority sign because you can't expect the driver to hunt around for yield signs at every intersection to see if they have priority. In my driving exam I had to learn about the different "levels" of priority rules, and I assume others in continental Europe too have learned this: The base rule, then the next level is signs, then traffic lights, and on top of that a police/traffic officer can override all that by directing traffic manually.

That being said, there are lots of instances where no priority road is marked, but where one of them is obviously of higher importance. People will assume priority based on this, but knowing that if someone pulls out from the right in front of them and they crash it's unambiguously their fault.

Roundabouts are just roads going in a ring and the same base rule applies to them: priority to the right, i.e. traffic entering. But, most countries have overriding rules specifically for roundabouts that say traffic inside it has priority. Some don't though, like France, but nearly all roundabouts have yield signs. The much dreaded Arc de Triomphe doesn't, but I guess "European city driving rules" apply there: Just dive in, sound your horn at every maneuver, be aggressive and hope for the best.
No ambiguity at all: if you don't have a stop sign or yield sign (or a light, obviously) facing you, it's safe to assume the intersecting street does, so you have the right of way.

EDIT: what I meant in my post is, at an intersection that doesn't have lights, if one road's clearly more important than the other, the less important road will be the one that's given a stop or yield sign. I'm not suggesting the driver has to guess which road's the more important; just addressing how the authorities determine where to put the signs, so that the North American equivalent of the diamond priority marker would be, simply, signage on the intersecting roads to "protect" the priority road. I persist in finding bizarre the notion that someone could come tearing out of a parking garage into the Champs-Élysées with the confidence that that traffic would yield to him. Exagerrated example, perhaps, but thats what priorité à droite makes me think of....

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Old December 8th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #38
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No ambiguity at all: if you don't have a stop sign or yield sign (or a light, obviously) facing you, it's safe to assume the intersecting street does, so you have the right of way.
According to this thread, it seems that yield-to-the-right intersections are rather an occasional occurrence than a prevalent rule. If the road administration is thoughtful and far-sighted, such intersections, if they have the slightest ambiguity (or limited visibility or whatnot) should be marked with the sign. This is what I generally tend to see.

I agree that it is neither possible nor reasonable to mark ALL intersections, both equal and prioritized, with signage. So the driver still sometimes needs to tell apart an equal intersection from one where priority is unmarked (ie., no diamond). That's why I previously mentioned that sometimes you need to peek around the corner to see what sign is installed on the intersecting road. Especially if you are learning driver and doing a driving exam, for example

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I persist in finding bizarre the notion that someone could come tearing out of a parking garage into the Champs-Élysées with the confidence that that traffic would yield to him. Exagerrated example, perhaps, but thats what priorité à droite makes me think of....
Priorité à droite is the fallback case. But I took a look at my local traffic code and among a lot of other things, it says (in an approximate translation):

Driver must give way to everybody else when entering the road
1) from a parking lot;
2) from a resting area;
3) from an area adjacent to road;
4) from a courtyard area, or its access road;
5) from an unpaved road.


I am reasonably sure that in my country this clause covers all the cases where an explicit "Give Way" sign has not been installed. Moreover, I assume that many other European countries have a similar clause in the traffic code. So, hold there with tearing into the Champs-Élysées...
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Old December 8th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #39
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This used to be used in the UK and it meant "junction ahead"
Do you mean like this one?

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Old December 9th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #40
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No ambiguity at all: if you don't have a stop sign or yield sign (or a light, obviously) facing you, it's safe to assume the intersecting street does, so you have the right of way.
For intersecting traffic it isn't always clear. Since I can't read minds I have no idea if this person pulled into traffic because didn't see that the cross street didn't have a stop sign, but a more visable sign indicating priorty would be helpful.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
So, does that mean that in every single intersection, one of the roads has either yield or stop signs? What about a large, suburban grid neighbourhood where all the streets have equal weight? Like this one, what's the rule here?

In Michigan, I've never seen an intersection where one street doesn't have a sign let alone in an area as urbanized as your link.

Last edited by urbanlover; December 9th, 2010 at 01:08 AM.
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