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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 20th, 2007, 08:36 PM   #181
Reivajar
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HSL's are really usefull for densly populated corridors between big cities, and not longer that 1000 km. In longer distances plane is more useful than trains, at least in daytime travels. For nightime travels you can cover a distance of 2000 or more km on HSLs.

There are some interesting corridors in USA for HSL developing:

NE Coast Corridor (Boston-New York-Philadelphia-DC), with links to Canada (Montreal), and even to Chicago (via Pittsburg and Cleveland).

California, as Nefast has commented.

In Florida, for example the cancelled project between Tampa and Orlando.

In Texas (San Antonio-Dallas-Houston triangle).

500 kph in traditional system of road-rail, even in HSL is very expensive, not due to infraestructure, but due to energetic cost. Any speed over 300-350 kph on traditional rails tracks causes an enormous energetic cost. It's no impossible, in fact French TGV reached 515,3 kph in 1990, but it isn't economically profitable in commercial services. To reach 500 kph you need a different technology based on maglev trains as German Transrapid. A Transrapid at 400 kph consumes less energy than an ICE-3 at 300 kph.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 05:31 AM   #182
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One of the problems with air travel, though, is that it is not that easy to build the necessary facilities for it. Airports near the city centers are getting more and more crowded, and can't take any more additional traffic. Contrary to popular conception, it's hard to find a large enough piece of land that is not affected by geography and noise issues that is close enough to the destinations people want to travel to. Plus, our weather adversely affects air travel - the spate of bad storms this year has really made a whole mess of air travel nationwide.
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Old January 22nd, 2007, 03:16 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
From east coast to west? Unless it would Maglev (which would prohibitively expensive) or the fast HSR to date I would say no. The U.S. is just not densely populated enough to warrant a frequent HSR from one coast to another. Planes fit a much better role for coast to coast travel. HSR should be broken up into high density regions before trying to build a national network. Also it would have to improve rail infrastructue within the major cities that such HSR would feed into.
Europe will have a network from Denmark to Portugal, it will be highly used and very profitable, but the amount of services that run from Denmark to Portugal will be precisely zero, because that is a ridiculously long journey to do by rail - even hsr. Just because the network goes somewhere doesn't mean there will be a service that traverses it's entirety. You can drive from Cape Town to Beijing, but I'm sure not too many have had the need to do it.
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Old January 23rd, 2007, 01:26 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Europe will have a network from Denmark to Portugal, it will be highly used and very profitable, but the amount of services that run from Denmark to Portugal will be precisely zero, because that is a ridiculously long journey to do by rail - even hsr. Just because the network goes somewhere doesn't mean there will be a service that traverses it's entirety. You can drive from Cape Town to Beijing, but I'm sure not too many have had the need to do it.
Yes, but between Denmark and Portugal you have a lot of major metropolitan areas to make a network between - without even considering the cities in between, you have a nice chain of these national capitals:

Copenhagen-Amsterdam-Brussels-Paris-Madrid-Lisbon

So, you're right about Europe, but you can't use the same logic with the USA. New York to Los Angeles is about 4,000km, but there just aren't enough large metro areas in between that would make it feasible to connect them with high speed rail. LA to Denver is about 1,500km, making it far quicker to fly, and there's nothing in between.

The Atlantic seaboard, Californian coast and maybe Texas are good candidates for high speed rail, but I can't ever see them being joined up with high speed lines via other places...
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Old January 28th, 2007, 05:22 PM   #185
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I think I read (DTK Guide) that 20,000 passengers pass over the Copenhagen-Malmo link per day ... and 10,000 go by road.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 12:40 AM   #186
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Ok, I live in D.C. Here is the problem with Acela. It is only for business travellers, as their is no "second/coach" class at all. Its only business or first class. Therefore the price is somwhere around 120$ one way between DC and NYC on the weekday. Too expensive for most people.

Second, the speed. It is only about 20 mins faster than the regular train, which costs much less...This is because the train, capable of 150mph top speed, is unable to achieve that speed from DC to NYC (top is 135) due to old catenary, curves and tunnels. The tilting mechanism was not built properly to allow full speed on curves, so this is another restriction.

Third, the track restrictions between NYC and BOS -- It has to share commuter rail tracks for a good portion of the stretch in Connecticut slowing the Bos-NYC trip to 3:30 mins or so...just not fast enough to compete with the air shuttle.

The next problem is that it stops in all the cities in between DC and NYC, there is no non-stop service..so it ends up being 2:50 mins, rather than 2:15 mins. For example, its stops in wilmington, philadelphia, newark, baltimore, etc.

So, all you get for your extra 60$ on the acela is nicer accomidation and 20 mins gain in time. If they could get it down to 2:15 mins and add a more second class carriages, it would be much more useful to the majority of people.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 08:46 AM   #187
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That's a pity. Sharing lines with commuter rail is a problem here too. One question: given that the US has numerous competing railways previously, what happened to all those easements? can't you find an old abandoned one along the Conneticut coast suitable for redevelopment as a high-speed corridor?

A pity about the pricing, too. I tried out about 170 miles of newly upgraded "regional fast rail" here recently ... with the bus between the two cities I visited, it cost me about $US 20. No wonder the trains always seem to be almost full!
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Old January 31st, 2007, 11:36 PM   #188
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It's impractical. Major cities are served so extensively by flight, and flights are so cheap that it's hard to do. Also, the amount of capital required is enormous.

There was a poll done somewhere that Americans prefer to drive for journeys under 500 miles than fly, let alone rail.

If it happens, it'll almost certainly flop.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 11:46 PM   #189
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There is a revival of conventional rail serice in many places and Amtrak has added trains from Chicago to Milwaukee, St. Lous and Quincy over the years and civic groups in places such as Rockford and the Quad cities are clamoring for rail service to REopen.

In terms of highspeed rail, I think it'll end up happening at the state/regional level before the feds really get behind it. But I do believe it is coming.
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Old February 1st, 2007, 07:48 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post
It's impractical. Major cities are served so extensively by flight, and flights are so cheap that it's hard to do. Also, the amount of capital required is enormous.

There was a poll done somewhere that Americans prefer to drive for journeys under 500 miles than fly, let alone rail.

If it happens, it'll almost certainly flop.
I wonder how such a poll was done. Americans may prefer to fly or drive everywhere and everywhere, but their habits are destroying not just their own environment, but that of the World as well.

If the people of Asia- or Europe- emulated the American lifestyle the US apparently invaded the Middle East in order to promote (Democracy at the barrel of a guided missile) the earth's climate would be spiralling vastly faster into chsos than it already is ... but Americans still insist on taking a tonne of steel with them every time they go to the supermarket.

Forget about the broadsheet press here: even the tabloids are reporting that hundreds of American scientists were threatened or silenced by the US Government regarding climate change.

So Americans would like to fly if they can't drive. Big deal. Australians don't want to drink treated sewerage, but, as it evolves, they have to. Why? sorry, but this was all on the cards forty years ago.
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Old February 1st, 2007, 07:51 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post
It's impractical. Major cities are served so extensively by flight, and flights are so cheap that it's hard to do. Also, the amount of capital required is enormous.

There was a poll done somewhere that Americans prefer to drive for journeys under 500 miles than fly, let alone rail.

If it happens, it'll almost certainly flop.
I wonder how such a poll was done. Americans may prefer to fly or drive everywhere and everywhere, but their habits are destroying not just their own environment, but that of the World as well.

If the people of Asia- or Europe- emulated the American lifestyle the US apparently invaded the Middle East in order to promote (Democracy at the barrel of a guided missile) the earth's climate would be spiralling vastly faster into chaos than it already is ... but Americans still insist on taking a tonne of steel with them every time they go to the supermarket.

Forget about the broadsheet press here: even the tabloids are reporting that hundreds of American scientists were threatened or silenced by the US Government regarding climate change.

So Americans would like to fly if they can't drive. Big deal. Australians don't want to drink treated sewerage, but, as it evolves, they have to. Why? sorry, but this was all written large and accurately forty years ago.
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Old February 1st, 2007, 09:29 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hinnov View Post
No, not really. HSL's are extremely expensive to build, that's why they're only viable between large cities. In Europe, HSL's can be found between large cities like Brussels and Paris, Cologne and Frankfurt or Rome and Naples.

That's why the US should concentrate on corridors between large cities like Boston, NY, Philly, Baltimore and DC; Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland or Los Angeles and SF. That would provide an interesting and attractive alternative to flying.
agreed.
New York State is actually considering a plan to have an intra-state HSR system, with connections from NYC - Albany - Syracuse - Rochester - Buffalo

It's a great plan.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 03:58 AM   #193
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Texas had a proposal for HSR in the '90s. Southwest Airlines essentially killed it. What makes a Texas triangle (I prefer a 'T" for HSR: http://www.thsrtc.com/ ) makes that same triangle *very* profitible for Southwest.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 10:11 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post
agreed.
New York State is actually considering a plan to have an intra-state HSR system, with connections from NYC - Albany - Syracuse - Rochester - Buffalo

It's a great plan.
Just wondering, does this route already have a train service? Is it or was it once served by turbo-trains?
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 07:34 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Luc View Post
Just wondering, does this route already have a train service? Is it or was it once served by turbo-trains?
Served by the Empire, Lake Shore Limited, Maple Leaf, and various others. The turbo trains I think used to run between Albany and NYC. The state actually paid Amtrak to have a bunch of turbo trains refurbished in the early '00s that would have run between Buffalo and NYC to speed up service some, but Amtrak renegged on the project after New York State gave them the money. Last I heard the state was suing them.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 09:22 AM   #196
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I rode the metroliner from Boston to New York. Good pace all the way through Rhode Island. What the **** happens in Connecticut. I get out of the damn city into the trees, and they slow the train down to 30mph. Ridiculous.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 11:58 AM   #197
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Yeah, only HSR in 'regions' would be profitable and useful.
I think if these lines will be constructed: San Diege-LA-SF-Sacramento, Salem-Portland-Olympia-Seattle, Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago, the BoshWash Corridor offcourse, Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinatti-Columbus-Cleveland and a branch to Detroit and another one to Buffalo/Rochester. And maybe some other HSR lines in regions like Texas, Florida, Atlantic Coast or the Midwest.
If you combine this with aiport station, flights between US Regions and good public transport facilities from the HSR stations(Bus/Metro/Tram?Regional Train) I think that the US could get out of the car!

But i also think this is nothing more than just a dream that wont come true.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:35 AM   #198
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Yeah, Europe has (which I'm IMPOSSIBLY jealous of by the way) many large cities that are within hundreds of miles of each other. The United States traverses 4,500 KM. Our country has an extremely developed passanger transport system via airplanes. People will drive up to 500Km or less, and fly longer distances.

People in the USA aren't AGAINST trains, we just have cars and airplanes that normally are more efficient than taking a train. It just is what it is. The northest, Chicago to Detroit, LA/San Diego, etc are a few of the regions where train travel actually makes sense.

I love train travel, and am all for it, but in our country there are rational reasons why we don't have a major network/system that people use.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #199
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Cars & planes aren't more efficient than trains ... they both burn up far more fuel and create far more global warming per passenger-mile.

Yes, I'm envious of Europe, too. But whereas Europe, the contiguous 48 states of the USA and Australia have more or less similar areas, we have just over 20 million people in that area, whereas you guys have about 300 million, and so do the Europeans (OK , in round figures, and it depends where you draw the lines).

Reading one of the other threads here, I find it incredible that a train from Chicago to Washington (or wherever) can routinely turn up hours late. Certainly much slower than say, Frances's TGV's. It's not about efficiency or population distribution, it's about political and economic will & organization.

Even here, little old Bendigo, a city of about 60,000 people 100 miles away, gets a train every hour, more at peak, the fastest of which does the distance- city centre to city centre, start to stop,- in under 90 minutes, even though it has to slot into suburban (commuter) traffic. Certainly not TGV stuff, but ...

I was referring to the "Amtrak" thread ... can't imagine why you haven't got dedicated high-speed passenger lines, at least between Washington & Boston.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 05:43 PM   #200
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i was thinking of a new high speed rail line and that i think Florida could do it maybe if they combined it with TGV Technology and Shinkansen can be done also around the United States it can use existing or modified Main Stations and then around the countryside it will go on its separate tracks and right of way and it can speed it doesn't have to go all the way separate it just can do that on the countryside on evelated right of way like the shinkansen and use exisiting right of way near the city that will stop but it will only be with the major terminals of the lines it will built new stations on the HSR lines so yeah i imagine it is possible since alot of people in the United states are thinking now that the rest of the world that Railways are the way to go

by the way i like Railways as well as cars and airplanes also ships as well
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