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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 6th, 2011, 03:20 AM   #2181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
At 220 mph max., it's only 14 hours from New York to Los Angeles. Think you can get on a sleeper train in New York at 8pm Eastern time and arrive in Los Angeles at 7am Pacific time the second morning.
Sleepers? Not going to happen. Moreover, any conceivable route would be via New Mexico, not on a "straight" line via NV, UT, CO.

HSR lines can't be open 24/7. They are usually closed (or operate with very reduced speeds) at night.

Sleepers is for backpackers who wouldn't be able to afford tickets anyway.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:20 AM   #2182
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The decision by Scott Walker and Rick Scott to reject the HSR funds was PURELY ideological.
Yawn. When someone disagrees with you, it's because they're ideological. And we all know Rick Scott hates blacks, gays, AND trains. Where's the love?
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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:23 AM   #2183
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Yawn. When someone disagrees with you, it's because they're ideological. And we all know Rick Scott hates blacks, gays, AND trains. Where's the love?
Nice strawmen, but Rick Scott's cancellation of HSR in Florida was ideological.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:26 AM   #2184
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Sure it was, now explain the ideology.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:36 AM   #2185
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Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
Sure it was, now explain the ideology.
High Speed Rail in the country is the brainchild of Barack Obama, a person whose policies Rick Scott and his Tea Party base despise.

Scott's main reasoning for cancelling high speed rail was always about "The People" and "tax burdens." Never once did he take into account that the project would offer economic benefits.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:41 AM   #2186
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That's your opinion. I probably would have done the same thing and have nothing against Obama. I've been skeptical about HSR working in certain parts of the United States from the very beginning. I didn't even know Obama was into HSR until the SOTU.

Also, please expand on the economic benefits + projected ridership of rail between Tampa and Orlando. Link would be preferable. Genuinely curious.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 05:09 AM   #2187
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Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
That's your opinion. I probably would have done the same thing and have nothing against Obama. I've been skeptical about HSR working in certain parts of the United States from the very beginning. I didn't even know Obama was into HSR until the SOTU.

Also, please expand on the economic benefits + projected ridership of rail between Tampa and Orlando. Link would be preferable. Genuinely curious.
He had three concerns and every one of those were eliminated by either a private investor or by the federal government.

He didn't want operation costs to be handled by the taxpayers and that would had been taken care of by the private investor.

He didn't want cost overruns to come out of the taxpayers' wallets and that would had been taken care of by the private investor.

He didn't want the state to be on the hook of paying back the $2.4 Billion if the train failed and the Fed. Gov't. came out a day before saying that Florida wouldn't have to pay back the money. And even if the Fed. Gov't. didn't come out with that announcement, the people involved were going to include that with the bid package that any private company would have to pay back the money, not the state.

He got his wish of protecting the taxpayers and still said "no". That is why his decision was purely ideological and politically motivated.
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Last edited by TampaMike; March 6th, 2011 at 06:31 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 05:19 AM   #2188
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If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And I did hear about this 'private investor.' Sounded fishy. If this mysterious unnamed private investor was so enthusiastic about HSR to the point that it would eat all the cost overruns and operational costs, what was the point of involving the state to begin with? The feds should have just awarded a grant to this private investor, which could oversee the entire operation start to finish. HSR actually would be a great idea for private investment. If entrepreneurs think it'll work, they should go for it.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 05:22 AM   #2189
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So one ting I haven't heard much about is are there any plans for a Dallas to Houston HSR. It's one of the best areas excluding L.A. to San Francisco and the whole New York to D.C. line.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 05:35 AM   #2190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And I did hear about this 'private investor.' Sounded fishy. If this mysterious unnamed private investor was so enthusiastic about HSR to the point that it would eat all the cost overruns and operational costs, what was the point of involving the state to begin with? The feds should have just awarded a grant to this private investor, which could oversee the entire operation start to finish. HSR actually would be a great idea for private investment. If entrepreneurs think it'll work, they should go for it.
LMAO its just "fishy" because it goes against everything you stand for. If this was any other highway project, you would be jumping in glee. Answer me this, what companies are moving when they hear of a widening of a highway or extension of one?

Private investors haven't been stepping up because we haven't had a government that seems serious about High Speed Rail in this country. Obama has been the first president that really seems interested in expanding our transportation infrastructure into the 21st Century with HSR. No other president has shown to private investors that this country is truely serious about HSR.

Lets also remember that it took about 25 years for highways to take shape in the US after Italy opened their highway. And England and Germany both had highways before our first highway opened. And most of the highways were financed by government subsidies, same with airports at that time. Where were private investors back then?
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Old March 6th, 2011, 07:00 AM   #2191
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Originally Posted by TampaMike View Post
LMAO its just "fishy" because it goes against everything you stand for. If this was any other highway project, you would be jumping in glee. Answer me this, what companies are moving when they hear of a widening of a highway or extension of one?
You have no idea what I stand for. And you didn't answer my question.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 07:21 AM   #2192
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Here's Rick Scott/Teaparty logic:

1. No private company has officially submitted an ironclad bid to absorb 100% of all cost overruns. (Problem: he pulled the plug before Florida Rail Enterprise even had the OPPORTUNITY to solicit bids, so OF COURSE there were no ironclad, up-front bids.)

2. Because of #1, Florida's risk is infinite (Problem: FRE had no independent source of funds, and the Senate sure as hell wasn't going to kick in any extra funds, so unless condition #1 could be satisfied, it wasn't going to get built anyway.)

3. Everything Rick Scott reads from a Teaparty talking point is Holy Writ, not subject to independent verification or questioning. If Rick and the Teaparty said Florida might end up having to repay the $2.4 billion after spending $3 billion in overages without completing the job, then it MUST be 100% true, even if LaHood himself was jumping up and down screaming that it's a baldfaced lie, that Florida wouldn't have to repay a cent -- even IF the private company completely defaulted in the worst way possible, and that Florida would never be required to contribute a cent towards its operation, and could leave the tracks to rust in the median of I-4 if the private company went under and nobody else could be found interested in taking it over.

It's scary, but trying to reason with Teaparty people is like trying to deprogram somebody who's in a religious cult. You can go down their list of talking points, debunk every single one of them in 5 minutes with Google, and they'll tell you with a straight face that China is engaged in cyber-warfare against the US, hacking servers, and posting falsified documents online to mislead people.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 10:43 AM   #2193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
Take Boston to Washington for example.

Acela Express - $392 roundtrip, 7 hrs each way
JetBlue - $159 roundtrip, 2.5 hrs each way
Acela isn't HSR, comparison bunk.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #2194
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Acela isn't HSR, comparison bunk.
I'm well aware of what Acela really is. So name the estimated travel price and the time of your proposed HSR train. If it beats Jetblue on one or both, you're in business. If not, HSR is bunk.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:37 PM   #2195
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Well All these lines below will be Upgraded and Electrified with speeds up to 130mph outside the Core lines and up to 160mph on the core lines. Each state also has a state wide network in planning. Funding is an issue , but New England is well ahead of everyone else.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #2196
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I'm well aware of what Acela really is. So name the estimated travel price and the time of your proposed HSR train. If it beats Jetblue on one or both, you're in business. If not, HSR is bunk.
Nonsense, Acela trains are packed despite having higher fares. Not everyone wants to sit in a cramped sardine can prone to large delays and then have to pay cab fare to get the central city or suburbs from the airport. Acela offers downtown to downtown service in both D.C. and New York where people can take the subway or commuter rail to their final destination.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #2197
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Quote:
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That's your opinion. I probably would have done the same thing and have nothing against Obama. I've been skeptical about HSR working in certain parts of the United States from the very beginning. I didn't even know Obama was into HSR until the SOTU.

Also, please expand on the economic benefits + projected ridership of rail between Tampa and Orlando. Link would be preferable. Genuinely curious.
If you are genuinely curious about the ridership estimates then go find them for yourself. Many private sector operators believed ridership to be sufficient on the line to produce a profit, which is why they were clamoring for the chance to operate the line.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #2198
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Sure it was, now explain the ideology.
Any form of transportation that does not burn oil and pad the profits of oil companies is an evil, socialist, tree-hugging plot to destroy 'Merica and force us to live in government housing and convert to atheism.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:41 PM   #2199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Nonsense, Acela trains are packed despite having higher fares. Not everyone wants to sit in a cramped sardine can prone to large delays and then have to pay cab fare to get the central city or suburbs from the airport. Acela offers downtown to downtown service in both D.C. and New York where people can take the subway or commuter rail to their final destination.
Interesting. But that still doesn't explain HSR in regions with very little intracity connectivity. Like another poster mentioned, once you get there, you're stranded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
If you are genuinely curious about the ridership estimates then go find them for yourself. Many private sector operators believed ridership to be sufficient on the line to produce a profit, which is why they were clamoring for the chance to operate the line.
Actually, when someone makes a claim, the burden of proof is on them to produce evidence validating said claim. If the economic benefits and projected ridership are so obvious, it shouldn't be difficult for someone to provide a reputable source here. And no one has addressed why the feds didn't just award these funds as a private grant to this unknown private entity reportedly clamoring for the operational and cost overrun responsibilities of HSR.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:43 PM   #2200
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You have no idea what I stand for. And you didn't answer my question.
Why is the state involved? Because the state of Florida owns the Right of Way that the High Speed Rail line be placed and before the the intentions of having a private investor in the project, the project was going to be handled by the state. The state has owned the ROW since its plan of HSR back in 2000. The voters rejected the project in 2004 after a campaign of lies and misinformation from Jeb Bush and his buddies. But the state still owns the ROW and has widened and reconstructed I-4 since then in the case HSR does happen. That is why the state has been involved since the start.
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