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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:56 AM   #2841
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I apologise for cluttering up this thread although I wouldn't be copying the following here had the presumed Acelaesqueness not come up the prior page here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Today's -- I so resent our apparent lack of safety (wouldn't you know it, it was a seldom-passing, swift-moving intercity train that killed the occupants of the vehicle), plus, if I'm not mistaken, this morning's radio said that the overpass itself was slated for guard-rail installation this coming year, but that part got spliced out as the early morning wove onward:
Investigation of fatal Montreal train accident underway


clickable...
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Old December 30th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #2842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
I apologise for cluttering up this thread although I wouldn't be copying the following here had the presumed Acelaesqueness not come up the prior page here:
Thanks, man. I love this stuff. Canada is successfully monkeying the Acela for its own needs, building off a New Haven doppelganger from this summer:

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...b189274726.txt

same upside down truck in a graffiti-covered trench
same disruption to major "high-speed" rail line

I couldn't have done it better myself. And just in time for the new year.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #2843
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It's dreadful up here ... as far as I know; that's now six people (possibly eight) that have been killed by the Toronto-to-Montreal train the past five years, 27 days; so who knows about the opposite direction; never mind the other intercity trains throughout our corridor
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Last edited by trainrover; December 31st, 2011 at 12:29 AM. Reason: arithmetic
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 06:25 AM   #2844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Vegas train looks closer to reality:
any news on that?
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Old January 4th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #2845
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I see no rationale (read: hope) to bringing HSR about when current service doesn't exist, e.g., Las Vegas connections, Dallas-Houston, etc(?)

Furthermore, I'm now finding myself not understanding the rationale to bringing about a Boston-Montreal HSR (which I believe is being much promoted by the state of Vermont), while on Page 33 of a current publication of Aéroports de Montréal's is the listing of only 39 flights per week between the two cities yet (accumulatively-speaking) 161 NYC-metro-area-Montreal ones
Quote:
Originally Posted by edubejar View Post

Current Amtrak routes:

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Past US rail networks:

clickable...


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Old January 4th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #2846
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Much though I hope you're wrong, my suspicions align with yours . Our country and its various areas just aren't shaped in ways that allow for efficient use of high speed trains. Unless we have a dramatic increase in urbanization, and more importantly a realization that statistically speaking, most people already live in or around only a handful of cities throughout the country and that we are in fact still urbanizing, HSR is never going to receive the funding and public support it needs and deserves. Unless as a country we lose the naive image of country living-perfection, it just won't happen.

I'm just hoping that the California proposal runs all the way through, and that it does well enough to keep running, even at a loss. At least then, I can stay somewhere in my home country without having to drive or fly absolutely everywhere.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #2847
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I don't know. All my comprehensive railroad literature published from the '70s through the '80s hailed United Aircraft Corp's Turbo Train as being the world's fasted (out-did Japan's initial Bullet fleet). USA was pulling off many speed record up until many decades ago. It's policy's that meddling, as far as I can tell.

BTW, it's telling, seeing Amtrak's rendition of its future high-speed locomotive sporting Siemens' name on its front end and side
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Old January 5th, 2012, 03:32 AM   #2848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Our country and its various areas just aren't shaped in ways that allow for efficient use of high speed trains.
I keep seeing this argument but let's just look at the facts for a minute:

Spain:
population - 46,777,373
population density - 93/km2
high speed rail lines - 2 665 km
urbanization rate - 77%
major metropolitan areas - Madrid - (6.1m), Barcelona - (4.5m), Valencia–Sagunto (1.7m)

NY+PA+OH+MA+MD
population - 55,938,116
population density - 128/km2
high speed rail lines - negligible (since only small portion of the northeast corridor is true HSR)
urbanization rate - didn't find data for the above states but the US average is
82% and I bet the rate is higher in New England
major metropolitan areas - NYC - (18.9m), Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, - (5.9m), Washington-Arlington-Alexandria (5.5m) Boston-Cambridge-Quincy (4.5m)

So... the true reason we don't have high speed rail has nothing to do with population density, or lack of urban areas and everything to do with our messed up priorities.

Last edited by cassini83; January 5th, 2012 at 03:41 AM.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:19 AM   #2849
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State panel: California HSR - "Not financially feasible"

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/01/0...ally-feasible/

"California panel declares high-speed rail project “not financially feasible”

posted at 2:40 pm on January 4, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

When the California legislature undertook the most expensive public-works project in American history, they also created an independent review board to ensure that the LA-to-San Francisco high-speed rail project would have solid financial footing. Perhaps they intended this panel to be a public-relations rubber stamp, but if so, it just proves that their miscalculations weren’t limited to cost projections. Yesterday, the California High-Speed Rail Peer Review Group sent a “scathing” letter to the political leadership in Sacramento, calling the project’s finances and costs “fundamentally flaw[ed]” (via Andrew Malcolm):"

(see link for rest)

Just under $100G now? YOWSAH!



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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:40 AM   #2850
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That's about what China spent on their high speed rail network in 2010... in just one year. To put it into perspective that would be about 10% of the Iraq war, or about 15% of the stimulus package. Having decent infrastructure, costs a lot of money.... but it's still nothing compared to other things, we're more than willing to spend money on.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 05:19 AM   #2851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassini83 View Post
That's about what China spent on their high speed rail network in 2010...
But how much track did that get them, through some incredibly rugged territory, compared with the distance between SFO and LAX?

Mike
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Old January 5th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #2852
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A lot more for sure. Mostly because a dollar has a lot more purchasing power in China than it does in the US. It varies from $25m/km in the Beijing to Shanghai line to $271m/km in Hong Kong. The fist example is quite similar in length to the California proposal and is comes up to $33.1B... so about 3 times cheaper. And to be fair $100B for a 800 mile line is quite a lot more than similar projects in Europe. Unfortunately, in my opinion, instead of learning from the experience of others and finding ways to lower the cost, the sticker shock will kill the project altogether.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #2853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassini83 View Post
I keep seeing this argument but let's just look at the facts for a minute:

Spain:
population - 46,777,373
population density - 93/km2
high speed rail lines - 2 665 km
urbanization rate - 77%
major metropolitan areas - Madrid - (6.1m), Barcelona - (4.5m), Valencia–Sagunto (1.7m)

NY+PA+OH+MA+MD
population - 55,938,116
population density - 128/km2
high speed rail lines - negligible (since only small portion of the northeast corridor is true HSR)
urbanization rate - didn't find data for the above states but the US average is
82% and I bet the rate is higher in New England
major metropolitan areas - NYC - (18.9m), Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, - (5.9m), Washington-Arlington-Alexandria (5.5m) Boston-Cambridge-Quincy (4.5m)

So... the true reason we don't have high speed rail has nothing to do with population density, or lack of urban areas and everything to do with our messed up priorities.
I wasn't talking so much about intermetro density, more intrametro development patterns. A lot of our cities, at least outside of the NEC, are fairly spread out, meaning a means of transit at the end points of high speed lines would be needed. We ought to be investing in both HSR and intraurban transit in enormous ways, I just seriously doubt there's going to be the sort of cultural change necessary to make transit funding a priority, on a local, state, regional, or national level.

And trust me, living just an hour's bus ride from Boston, I'm really, really crossing my fingers for the sort of investment the NEC HSR line needs. From Manchester, NH to NYC in 4 hours? Yes please.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #2854
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Quote:
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messedoctered-up priorities.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 02:17 AM   #2855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
I wasn't talking so much about intermetro density, more intrametro development patterns. A lot of our cities, at least outside of the NEC, are fairly spread out, meaning a means of transit at the end points of high speed lines would be needed. We ought to be investing in both HSR and intraurban transit in enormous ways, I just seriously doubt there's going to be the sort of cultural change necessary to make transit funding a priority, on a local, state, regional, or national level.

And trust me, living just an hour's bus ride from Boston, I'm really, really crossing my fingers for the sort of investment the NEC HSR line needs. From Manchester, NH to NYC in 4 hours? Yes please.
Couldn't agree more!
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Old January 6th, 2012, 03:05 AM   #2856
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They started replacing the poles and clearing trees in NJ for the NEC upgrade...
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Old January 6th, 2012, 03:25 AM   #2857
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Los Angeles Times

Quote:
Review urges delay in borrowing billions for bullet train

State-mandated panel concludes that the high-speed rail program 'is not financially feasible.' Gov. Jerry Brown's office signals that he isn't likely to be swayed by the findings.



By Ralph Vartabedian and Dan Weikel,
Los Angeles Times

January 4, 2012
In a scathing critique that could further jeopardize political support for California's proposed $98.5-billion bullet train, a key independent review panel is recommending that state officials postpone borrowing billions of dollars to start building the first section of track this year.

Gov. Jerry Brown has said he will ask the Legislature in the coming months to issue the first batch of $9 billion in voter-approved bonds for a high-speed rail network that backers say will create jobs, help the environment and transform the state's economy.

But in a report Tuesday, a panel of experts created by state law to help safeguard the public's interest raised serious doubts about almost every aspect of the project and concluded that the current plan "is not financially feasible." As a result, the panel said, it "cannot at this time recommend that the Legislature approve the appropriation of bond proceeds for this project."

Although the panel has no legal power to stop the project, its strong criticism, coupled with recent polls showing public opinion has shifted against the proposal, is giving some key political leaders pause.

"The peer review group report raises important issues for the Legislature to weigh as we consider any appropriation for the project during this year's budget process," said the leader of the state Senate, Darrell Steinberg (D-Sacramento), a longtime supporter of the program.

The project has won major support from organized labor, some big-city mayors and many state lawmakers. But Tuesday's report adds to a string of negative assessments from the state auditor, the state inspector general, the legislative analyst, the UC Berkeley Institute of Transportation Studies, as well as the transportation committee in the U.S. House of Representatives.

A few local agencies along the proposed route, the first leg of which would be built in the Central Valley, have voted to oppose the project. Powerful agriculture and railroad interests have joined the attack and several lawsuits are seeking to block construction.

The expert panel asserted that the plan to start construction between Chowchilla and Bakersfield does not meet requirements approved by voters. Their report also found ridership estimates are unverified, construction costs may exceed the current $98.5 billion estimate, and the state agency overseeing the project lacks adequate management resources.

Most problematic, the report said, is the lack of certainty about funding the balance of the project once the state exhausts the $9 billion in available bonds and $3.3 billion in federal grants. Congress has eliminated future funding for the project, and Republicans are attempting to freeze funds already granted.

[...]
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Old January 6th, 2012, 08:05 AM   #2858
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Somehow I have a feeling that the first leg of the Chuo Shinkansen Maglev line between Tokyo and Nagoya scheduled for 2027 will finish before you guys even break first soil.LoL
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Old January 6th, 2012, 09:03 AM   #2859
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This is sounding like Australia...
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Old January 6th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #2860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
They started replacing the poles and clearing trees in NJ for the NEC upgrade...
Adding tracks?
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