daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 8th, 2012, 04:30 AM   #2881
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
If HSR were to appear in California, how would the route be fenced off alongside its trunks right through wilderness, e.g., wouldn't wildlife eventually gnaw their way through it?

$90B might sound right (while the Keystone-pipeline estimate pegged at $7B strikes me far too low).
Unlike the California HSR proposal, the Keystone Pipeline is a 100% privately financed and built project. The companies doing the work thus have a very strong incentive to do the job as cost-efficiently as possible. Another cost factor, ROW acquisition, is not as much of a problem, either, as the high plains are very sparsely populated and a pipeline can be built and placed into operation while the land that it crosses can revert to its original use (ranching and so forth). The high plains also includes large areas of open public BLM rangeland that is inexpensive to transit.

Mike

Last edited by mgk920; January 8th, 2012 at 04:36 AM.
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 8th, 2012, 04:30 AM   #2882
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

Plus at 196cm, I'd not feel so frequently out of place there now as I do here! And I've met a few people from the Netherlands, all of whom were very nice.

I will consider your offer.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2012, 05:05 AM   #2883
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
Unlike the California HSR proposal, the Keystone Pipeline is a 100% privately financed and built project. The companies doing the work thus have a very strong incentive to do the job as cost-efficiently as possible. Another cost factor, ROW acquisition, is not as much of a problem, either, as the high plains are very sparsely populated and a pipeline can be built and placed into operation while the land that it crosses can revert to its original use (ranching and so forth). The high plains also includes large areas of open public BLM rangeland that is inexpensive to transit.

Mike
I fail to see how HSR would be different. It'll either be building a row of viaduct pylons or cutting an embankment if the tracks are laid on the ground; the rest of the farmland is left intact. I don't understand why the Californian farmers are so picky about a line being drawn through their property.
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #2884
cassini83
Registered User
 
cassini83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
Likes (Received): 1083

The HSR line has to go trough cities, with much more expensive right of way acquisition costs than farmland. Still, that's only a small part of the expense. The tolerances on the rail line are orders of magnitude smaller than any pipeline.
A few inches of horizontal deviation over a few hundred feet at 220mph and you've got a derailment. It's a much more time consuming process and requires a lot more specialized machinery and qualified labor. The track foundation is comprised of levels of subgrade, blankets and ballast. Ballastless track is even more expensive. There's also the cost for new train stations, signaling systems, poles and overhead catenary the trains themselves and so on...
cassini83 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #2885
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
UK kinda has HSR in Eurostar...I dont know if they run faster than 200KmPH in UK.
It runs at 300km/h in the UK, but there is no domestic passenger travel between any two stations within the UK that are served at 300km/h. We have 140mph / 225km/h domestic units that run on the Eurostar route, but because its less than 70 miles from London to the coast there was no need to spend the extra on full-high speed commuter trains, that only need to compete with legacy services running at an average of 50-60 mph through much of that area.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #2886
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Tell me, then where do those Javelins serve?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Is it actually going at 100MPH? The video made it feel slower, probably around 70-80MPH.
I agree, I think you're right ... the 95MPH lies about a couple of miles to the right of the pedestrian level crossing, if not actually over the filmed segment itself.




Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Stronger fence and regular inspections should be able to keep animals at bay.
HSR would necessitate regular, frequent inspections; I'm wondering if/how its fencing has been discussed/would be devised




Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Ugh, what's the deal with all us Anglo-Saxon countries
I've a hunch it has to do with said jurisdictions' airline sector/firms being mightier
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #2887
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
HSR would necessitate regular, frequent inspections; I'm wondering if/how its fencing has been discussed/would be devised
I really wouldn't worry about animals as much, the small ones won't cause problem to the train, the large ones will take considerable amount of energy and time to open a gap on the fence large enough to squeeze through. Fencing is mostly steel so it's not the easiest thing to break. The fairly frequent trains will discourage the animals from stay next to the fencing for too long.

Below is an example of what China uses as standard fencing for both expressways and railways.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2012, 01:51 AM   #2888
IanCleverly
A New Kind of Medicine
 
IanCleverly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Caerphilly, South Wales
Posts: 446
Likes (Received): 230

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Tell me, then where do those Javelins serve?
London St. Pancras to various destinations in Kent (clicking on the Network map in the left corner may give you an idea of geography, with High speed services showing up as light blue).
IanCleverly no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #2889
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Even though there's ample ditching for drainage, might there be anything else devised into this fencing to thwart creatures from burrowing under it?
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2012, 12:26 AM   #2890
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

No, but I bet whatever that can burrow under the fencing will not threatening a incoming train. They only have to worry about the likes of deer or bear.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #2891
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Acelaesqueness ... sorry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
I happened to find myself waiting at this three-track level crossing earlier today. Between the pair of trains that plied the crossing in the same direction independently of one another, I was the only of us ten pedestrians who waited for the crossing barriers to rise, yield to roadway traffic I guess that might've been 'we four of 40' had the first train been 120 cars long instead of 30, plus the other (single-loco-single-boxcar!) train took only the further 35 seconds to arrive at the crossing.

The weather? Not overly cold, although blustery, poor visibility due to the heavy snowfall, altogether with slippery pavement and tracks.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #2892
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Acelaesqueness ... sorry!

Most of the time, I have absolutely no clue at all what you're trying to say.
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #2893
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

trainover, check out this news last year about animals and Taiwan HSR.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=134
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #2894
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

What do you mean, they summed solely one critter?
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2012, 05:27 AM   #2895
transman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 41
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Ugh, what's the deal with all us Anglo-Saxon countries thinking we're "too good" for HSR? The U.S., Australia, Canada, the U.K...what gives? None of the places in the world I could live in without having to learn another language has true high speed service! Makes me wish I'd been born a continental European or something....
i firstly make a correction to you mr aqua, their is no such thing as an anglo saxon country.i am white european but not anglo saxon. secondly i live in australia and our government is surveying a high speed rail route along our east coast,although it will probably take years before it will come to fruition.but i agree that it is difficult to live in a large country that has problems biulding the transport infrastructure it needs to service a large population.
transman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #2896
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

Quote:
Originally Posted by transman View Post
i firstly make a correction to you mr aqua, their is no such thing as an anglo saxon country.i am white european but not anglo saxon. secondly i live in australia and our government is surveying a high speed rail route along our east coast,although it will probably take years before it will come to fruition.but i agree that it is difficult to live in a large country that has problems biulding the transport infrastructure it needs to service a large population.
There is indeed such a thing as an Anglo-Saxon country--any country which was founded by a primarily English or British Isles population, or possibly one whose primary spoken language is English. The U.S., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (and obviously the United Kingdom) are all Anglo-Saxon countries. You can be a white person of European descent and not from England or the British Isles, but still be Ango-Saxon; it's mostly heritage that determines that sorts of descriptor, not location.

My mention of high speed rail development was intended to point out that compared to most high-income developed economies, such countries have a passenger rail system that is far less advanced than in other, non-Anglo-Saxon countries, especially France, Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, and Spain.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2012, 05:51 AM   #2897
Jota
J
 
Jota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SC+ BCN+London+Donostia
Posts: 843
Likes (Received): 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Acelaesqueness
100MPH is not high speed, sorry!
__________________
El equilibrio es imposible...

Todo lo que pensé que nunca haría anda por ahí, está tan cerca que casi está dentro de mí...
Jota no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #2898
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jota View Post
100MPH is not high speed, sorry!
125mph+ is.....
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #2899
sweet-d
Registered User
 
sweet-d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chengdu
Posts: 1,612
Likes (Received): 265

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
There is indeed such a thing as an Anglo-Saxon country--any country which was founded by a primarily English or British Isles population, or possibly one whose primary spoken language is English. The U.S., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (and obviously the United Kingdom) are all Anglo-Saxon countries. You can be a white person of European descent and not from England or the British Isles, but still be Ango-Saxon; it's mostly heritage that determines that sorts of descriptor, not location.

My mention of high speed rail development was intended to point out that compared to most high-income developed economies, such countries have a passenger rail system that is far less advanced than in other, non-Anglo-Saxon countries, especially France, Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, and Spain.
yeah the US isn't anglo saxon especially considering most americans aren't ethnically anglo saxon. especially considering a lot of white americans identify themselves as American, then theirs latino's and african americans. listen the US is an American Country not Anglo Saxon.
sweet-d no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #2900
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 452

I think a better term is "Anglophone", meaning "English-speaking". It seems nations who have English as their first language are handicapped when it comes to having the gumption to develop HSR networks (though Britain is belatedly building one up).
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium