daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 17th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #3021
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
I can tell you from experience the rocking makes napping easier.

It's what we have, and on that route it is always full and I'm certain by itself operates at a huge surplus. As slow as it may be compared to the super trains all of you non-backward utopian country residents use it is the fastest way to get from downtown DC to downtown Philadelphia, the fastest way from downtown Phil to downtown NYC, fastest from downtown NYC to downtown Boston, probably the fastest way to get from DC to downtown NYC etc. The only way to get to and from those places faster would be Star Trek beaming.

The Acela IS our high speed rail, and as someone who was in a former life a weekly rider, it is tremendous! But it's not tremendous enough to warrant a 10 billion dollar (or whatever it would need to be) borrowed investment to make it 50MPH faster when 9 out of 10 bridges the other 99.999% of the poulation drive on are falling apart. We have bigger infrastructure problems here.

I was just in Southern California a few weeks ago and I drove on your roads. If you folks out there have 40 billion to throw around on infrastructure HSR should NOT be your priority! JMHO of course and as always YMMV.
Just to clarify, I'm from Manchester, NH. What I'd appreciate more than HSR would be a 90mph rail line from Concord, down to Manchester, Nashua, and eventually Boston. And if you know about induced demand (here we go), the last thing SoCal needs is "better roads". It's still borderline offensive that a metropolitan area like LA has such a ridiculously poor excuse for a mass transit system.

Oh, and by the way, your 99.99%/.01% comparison is flawed for a number of reasons. It's a lot more difficult to rebalance an economy from that sort of orientation than it is to rebalance transportation. And also, for the first time in history, more people in this country live in cities than in the country. Cities, which HSR works best with.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 18th, 2012, 04:52 AM   #3022
manrush
Agenda 21 Advocate
 
manrush's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Urban New England
Posts: 4,150
Likes (Received): 499

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
So, you are saying that 99.99% should wait until the .01% get something they don't really need?

Got it!
If people took inaccurate codswallop like this at face value, then sure, that is exactly what I'm saying.

The so-called 'motorist majority' have political influence that urban folk in this country can only dream of.

They can wait their turn like the supposed adults that they are.
manrush no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #3023
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,446
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
So, you are saying that 99.99% should wait until the .01% get something they don't really need?

Got it!
You really think all people drive because they want to? Nonsense- the vast majority of people drive because it's THEIR ONLY OPTION. This nation has catered to the automobile for sixty years- it's not surprising that most people drive. Balancing the funding will provide people with much needed options. If this country's mass transit infrastructure was as extensive as its automobile infrastructure the modal share would be VASTLY different.
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2012, 07:51 AM   #3024
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,446
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
The Acela IS our high speed rail, and as someone who was in a former life a weekly rider, it is tremendous! But it's not tremendous enough to warrant a 10 billion dollar (or whatever it would need to be) borrowed investment to make it 50MPH faster when 9 out of 10 bridges the other 99.999% of the poulation drive on are falling apart. We have bigger infrastructure problems here.
$10 billion is a drop in the friggin' bucket. Roads receive FAR more each year in funding. Maybe if states quit building new ones to suburbia and had a fix-it-first approach many of these functionally obsolete and structurally deficient bridges and roads would be eliminated.

Rail infrastructure in this country is screaming for more investment- gas prices are only going to get higher and expanding roads and airports are just as expensive but with far worse environmental impacts.
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #3025
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
So, you are saying that 99.99% should wait until the .01% get something they don't really need?

Got it!
How about giving back what had been taken from the 99.99% by the 0.01%? Automobile leaders virtually demolished thousands of miles of railway infrastructure to usher in the age of the automobile.

As already said, driving isn't the American way: it's the corporate-enforced way that is almost defining of American culture. People don't realize that suburbs and urban decay are the direct result of automobile consumption--and that the reintroduction of rail can drastically alter urban landscapes in the future. Funny, for a country that claims to support free-market, there are so many impediments to getting new things off the ground.
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #3026
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
driving isn't the American way: it's the corporate-enforced way that is almost defining of American culture
Precisely ... I also agree with the rest of what you've written above.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 12:37 AM   #3027
FlyFish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Likes (Received): 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Funny, for a country that claims to support free-market, there are so many impediments to getting new things off the ground.
You mean like the need for gigantic Government investment. Pretty ironic huh?
FlyFish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 12:38 AM   #3028
FlyFish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Likes (Received): 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
$10 billion is a drop in the friggin' bucket. Roads receive FAR more each year in funding. Maybe if states quit building new ones to suburbia and had a fix-it-first approach many of these functionally obsolete and structurally deficient bridges and roads would be eliminated.

Rail infrastructure in this country is screaming for more investment- gas prices are only going to get higher and expanding roads and airports are just as expensive but with far worse environmental impacts.
I agree with every word of this....shockingly.
FlyFish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 12:43 AM   #3029
FlyFish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Likes (Received): 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
If this country's mass transit infrastructure was as extensive as its automobile infrastructure the modal share would be VASTLY different.
True, but as they say, it is what it is. The infrastructure here IS vastly road-heavy, whether you like it or not. I've got no issue with cities developing new and better mass transit systems. I just don't think HSR is one of those things.
FlyFish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 12:54 AM   #3030
CF221
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 1,770
Likes (Received): 811

And what's wrong with a faster alternative to cars? I mean, I myself had to choose what form of transportation to use when going to New Yor this Spring Break and ruled cars out very quickly for taking a day and a half to get there and a bunch of wasted money on gas, not taking into account the obvious dangers of driving for such a long time. I then weighed into rail and planes, rail being much cheaper, yet it took a much longer time to get there. Thus I chose plane over rail just for this reason, regardless of wether it is a little mor expensive, it gets me where I want to go, when I want to go, at the time I need, and duration that doesn't drive me nuts. If there had been high speed rail, i would've paid the price without blinking, and would've loved it... traveling on a train and looking through the window into the changing landscape is one experience I love.
__________________
Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CF221 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 02:07 AM   #3031
FlyFish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Likes (Received): 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by CF221 View Post
And what's wrong with a faster alternative to cars?
I don't know why this is so hard to understand. There is NOTHING wrong with a faster alternative except that there isn't any money to build it, and it is MHO that if there is infrastructure money out there it needs to be spent on fixing the crumbling infrastructure we have. Like it or not, and obviously most of you don't, it is auro-centric here in the US. For whatever reason, be it that people like to drive or for those of you with foil hats, that there is some great conspiracy driven by those oh-so-evil (yet I can almost guarantyee that if you have a 401k you are a shareholder in them) oil companies, the car is number one in the US.

Further, if there is infrastructure money out there that isn't needed on roads, the biggest bang for the buck with rail is regional and mass transit rail into the cities. THAT will get cars off the road.
FlyFish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 06:36 AM   #3032
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Flyfish:

Please, the US government spends $33 billion a year in maintaining the Interstate alone. Even if they keep the roads in pristine condition, it's only going to attract more demand, increase wear, and increase cost. How about diverting some of that money onto high speed rail so that intercity travel so road consumption (as well as road wear and the need for maintenance and repair) decrease?

Also, I disagree that regional rail is an immediate solution. I agree with you that right now, the automobile is supreme in the US, hands down. People aren't going to surrender their cars for which was their designed purpose, unless we're talking about impediments such as serious congestion. In short, intracity travel is the car's home turf: it's the grey, overlapping area where it's both ridiculous to fly and too long to drive that rail stands a chance in taking the lead. Even here in Taiwan, my parents prefer to drive to work because it's more convenient at the destination; but when it comes to going on a trip from Hsinchu to Kaosiung, it's almost always a train trip. And, true, it'll probably take a few years for the downtown area to recentralize, but once it does, it'll be much easier to build intracity rail networks (since such areas will increase in density).


I'd also like to take this time to point out that percentages quoted by researchers are wildly deceptive: after THSR opened, highway usage dropped by 2-3% annually: it may not seem like much, but when we're comparing even a marginal decrease with that of a projected increase, it's quite an achievement; if freeway consumption was projected to rise at 3% per year, that's a 6% decrease per year. If we're looking at the same model after three years, automobile consumption will have decreased by 18%, compared to if the HSR isn't built.

Problem, Randall O'Toole?
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 09:40 AM   #3033
Think
...or not to be...
 
Think's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,428
Likes (Received): 158

I'm waiting for the battle of the "world supremacy" in future decades between USA and China, in a scenario where oil have 4 times it current cost and China have developed a vast HSR network.

It will fun to see if it was ok to let all the transport market to the car.
Think no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 08:31 PM   #3034
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

To give credit to our government the new CAFE standard will make cars more efficient in the future, but I agree that a good passenger rail network is a must for any country to achieve sustainable growth.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 04:22 AM   #3035
joezierer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 237
Likes (Received): 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
I'm waiting for the battle of the "world supremacy" in future decades between USA and China, in a scenario where oil have 4 times it current cost and China have developed a vast HSR network.

It will fun to see if it was ok to let all the transport market to the car.
Shhh.
joezierer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:28 PM   #3036
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
You really think all people drive because they want to? Nonsense- the vast majority of people drive because it's THEIR ONLY OPTION. This nation has catered to the automobile for sixty years- it's not surprising that most people drive. Balancing the funding will provide people with much needed options. If this country's mass transit infrastructure was as extensive as its automobile infrastructure the modal share would be VASTLY different.
If I could take a train or bus to work that would be great. Sadly the only other option to my 10 minute drive is walking or bicycling. Walking will take over an hour each way, cycling maybe 30 minutes each way. The last two alternatives would me I would need another shower at work and another set of clothes which would be even more of a hassle. There is a commuter rail station about a 15 minute walk from my apartment but it goes no where that I need to go. There is a bus stop a 5 minute walk away but it doesn't go to my work and jumping in my car is faster.

After visiting China and countries in Europe, I so wish my city had excellent public transportation. High Speed Rail between Austin and San Antonio would be nice.

So with that said, as much as I love driving I would love to have a decent alternative so I don't have to pay a shitload on gas even with my little 2004 Nissan Sentra.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 03:33 AM   #3037
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

100mph

__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 05:15 AM   #3038
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

It's good to see a train that's not only (relatively) fast, but long, too. Gives one hope that rail travel will be as heavily-used in this country as it ought to be.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #3039
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 452

High(er) speed in Michigan:
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #3040
Stainless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pyeongnae
Posts: 420
Likes (Received): 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
If I could take a train or bus to work that would be great. Sadly the only other option to my 10 minute drive is walking or bicycling. Walking will take over an hour each way, cycling maybe 30 minutes each way. The last two alternatives would me I would need another shower at work and another set of clothes which would be even more of a hassle.
I cycle over 30 mins each way to work and don't find it a massive hassle, there are shower facilities at work and lockers. If the facilities are there people will use them. It keeps me very fit, but I imagine Austin is quite a different climate though!
Stainless no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium