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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #3101
Sunfuns
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USA alone has at least a dozen potentially viable routes with large cities 1-4h from each other (100-600 miles). Just from a top of my head: LA-Las Vegas, San Diego-LA, LA-San Francisco, LA-Phoenix, Portland-Seattle-Vancouver, Boston-New York-Philadelphia-Washington, Detroit-Chicago, Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami, Houston-San Antonio-Dallas. Maybe some more in the Midwest, but I don't know how big those other cities are (other than Chicago or Detroit).

And by the way while it's true that USA in general is sparsely populated, there are some key areas which have population densities on par or greater than most European countries.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 02:42 AM   #3102
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^ But with NEC's track speed limitation due to restricted space, Florida's hate on publicly funded HSR, and California's difficulties in building the line linking cities that can actually take advantage of HSR, there is not much left for the hope of HSR in America. Portland-Seattle-Vancouver is not gonna happen but no one has the money and the boarder crossing is a bottleneck. Detroit-Chicago will be perfectly happy with their new faster service. Houston-Dallas is probably the only other feasible choice but it's a long shot since this is Taxes we are talking about.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #3103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
USA alone has at least a dozen potentially viable routes with large cities 1-4h from each other (100-600 miles). Just from a top of my head: LA-Las Vegas, San Diego-LA, LA-San Francisco, LA-Phoenix, Portland-Seattle-Vancouver, Boston-New York-Philadelphia-Washington, Detroit-Chicago, Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami, Houston-San Antonio-Dallas. Maybe some more in the Midwest, but I don't know how big those other cities are (other than Chicago or Detroit).

And by the way while it's true that USA in general is sparsely populated, there are some key areas which have population densities on par or greater than most European countries.
Heck, IMHO, Chicago-Milwaukee-Green Bay (via Appleton) would very likely work 'above the rail' as a 'conventional/enhanced speed restored-service' route (*NO* true HSR), but the startup costs and who would pay them are the killer here.

Mike
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Old April 9th, 2012, 05:55 AM   #3104
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The politics is USA's biggest problem with HSR. But it is deffinately worth it on a dousin of locations if you consider future growth. What america has that the old world lacks is a future trend of population growth stretching at least a century into the future. A hundread years from now the population in USA will be at over 600 million, and then you will all think of the opportunity you had to make an hsr line when you had the chance, when land sales was cheaper, when you could bring in foreign labor and when you needed to employ people after a financial crack.

It is just ashame that american politicians deem anything said by a politician of the opposing party as bad, although it would be considered "good" if your own side came up with the idea. What is important in USA is to throw dirt at the other party's politicians, and they only see towards the next election. If one party backs up the HSR network, it won't pass because it needs support from state governemnts too, and the states that are run by the opposing party will vote it down because the party leading washington is their opponents. It is nothing but a childish bickering ruining a once great country. The system is tearing USA down. It is ashame that the same can be said about Europe.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 06:00 AM   #3105
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I think you're too pessimistic, hmmwv. California is progressing, albeit slowly and haltingly. The NEC will, assuming that ridership trends continue, require further investment, and it's highly likely that this will involve speed improvements at some point. The Chicago Hub is already seeing a bunch of investment already. Basically, assuming things continue as they are, trains are bound to rebound. Most people my age (early 20's) are used to much more frequent use of public transportation than older people are.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:22 AM   #3106
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The point is rail corridors between key cities, THEN build links between these corridors to form a cross country stretch (remember, they can alter time tables so that not EVERY train stops at EVERY station).
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:23 AM   #3107
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California High Speed Rail Network
Size : 800+ Mi (1,300kms)
Number of lines : 6
Stations : 25+
Projected Ridership : 95 Million a Year or 260,730 Daily
Top Speed : 220mph (350Km/h)
Cost : 68.5 Billion $

Midwest High Speed Rail Network
Size : 700 Mi+ (1,296Kms)
Stations : 76+ (Feeders factored in)
Lines : 6+ with 7 Feeders
Projected Ridership : 43 Million a year or 120,000 daily (Feeders factored in)
Top Speed on Trunk lines : 220mph (350Km/h)
Top Speed on Secondary / Feeder lines : 125mph (201Km/h)
Cost : 58 Billion $


Northeastern High Speed Network
Size : 1940 Mi+ (3,592kms)
Lines : 4+ with 6 Feeders
Stations : 90+ (Feeders factored in)
Projected Ridership : 127 Million a year or 350,000 daily (Feeders factored in)
Top Speed on Trunk lines : 220mph (350Km/h)
Top Speed on Secondary / Feeder lines : 125mph (201Km/h)
Cost : 120 Billion $


Taken from MWHSR , CAHSR and AMtrak Next gen sources
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Last edited by Nexis; April 10th, 2012 at 03:44 AM.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #3108
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All sections of NEC needs at least 4 tracks, 5 or 6 if its a busy commuter rail section.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #3109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
All sections of NEC needs at least 4 tracks, 5 or 6 if its a busy commuter rail section.
Plans call for New HSR ROW in New England and New HSR routes / bypasses through Newark , Philly , Wilmington and Baltimore.... As well as Grade Separating all the Interlocks and added tracks to allow NJT , MNRR , MBTA , and MARC to add more lines that feed into the NEC.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #3110
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Whats the point if it wont stop in any of those stations?
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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:20 AM   #3111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
Whats the point if it wont stop in any of those stations?
Well only the Super Express will bypass most of the stations only service the Large Cities , the semi Express and Shore line express will stop at the Airports and cities like Newark , Hartford , Wilmington , etc....
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Old April 9th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #3112
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HSR is not supposed to stop very often. For example a train from Basel where I live to Paris (ca 350 miles) takes 3 h 5 min and has only two stops.

A fast train from New York to Washington DC probably ought to stop only in Philadelphia and Baltimore. Smaller stops are for regional and commuter trains.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #3113
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Current / Proposed , Planned , Under Construction Stations

Next Gen High Speed Rail Northeast

Next Gen Super Express (Max : 220mph : Average : 190mph)
Washington DC Union Station
Philadelphia Market East Station
New York Penn Station
New York Grand Central
Boston Back Bay Station
Boston South Station


Next Gen Express (Max : 220mph : Average : 180mph)
Washington DC Union Station
BWI Airport Station
Baltimore Charles Center
Wilmington HSR Station
Philadelphia In't Airport
Philadelphia Market East

Trenton Transit Center
Newark Liberty Airport
Newark Penn Station
New York Penn Station
Grand Central Station
White Plains HSR Station
Danbury HSR
Waterbury HSR Station

Hartford Union Station
Tolland (UConn)
Worcester HSR Station
Metro West HSR Station

Back Bay Station
South Station


Next Gen Shoreline Express (Max : 160mph : Average : 130mph)
Washington DC Union Station
BWI Airport Station
Baltimore Penn Station
Wilmington HSR Station
Philadelphia 30th Street
Newark Penn Station
New York Penn Station
Stamford Station
New Haven Union Station
Providence Union Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Boston South Station


Next Gen Long Island Express (Max : 160mph : Average : 130mph)
Washington DC Union Station
BWI Airport Station
Baltimore Charles Center
Wilmington HSR Station
Philadelphia In't Airport
Philadelphia Market East

Newark Liberty In't Airport
Newark Penn Station
New York Penn Station
Jamaica - JFK Airport Station
Nassau Hub
Farmingdale - Route 110
Ronkonkoma - Mac Arthur Airport
Terryville (SUNY Stony Brook)

New Haven Union Station
Meriden Station
Hartford Union Station
Tolland (UConn)
Worcester HSR Station
Metro West HSR Station

Back Bay Station
South Station



Intercity Amtrak , Entire system will be Electrified Eventually

Max : 125mph : Average : 100mph

Northeast Regional - Main line
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Route 128
Providence
Kingston
Westerly (Limited)
Mystic (Limited)
New London
Old Saybrook (Limited)
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport (Limited)
Metropark
New Brunswick (Overnight)
Princeton JCT (Overnight)
Trenton
Cornwells Heights (limited)
North Philadelphia (Limted)
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station
Alexandria
Woodbridge
Quantico
Fredricksburg
Ashland
Richmond Staples Mill Road
Richmond Main Street
Williamsburg
Newport News


Northeast Regional - Springfield Shuttle
Springfield
Windsor Locks (shifted to commuter rail in 2018)
Windsor (shifted to commuter rail in 2018)

Hartford
Berlin (shifted to commuter rail in 2018)
Meriden (shifted to commuter rail in 2018)
Wallingford (shifted to commuter rail in 2018)

New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport
Metropark
New Brunswick
Princeton JCT
Trenton
Cornwells Heights
North Philadelphia
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station


Northeast Regional - Lynchburg Branch
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Route 128
Providence
Kingston
Westerly
Mystic
New London
Old Saybrook
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport
Metropark
New Brunswick
Princeton JCT
Trenton
Cornwells Heights
North Philadelphia
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station
Alexandria
Burke Centre
Manassas
Culpepper
Charlottesville
Lynchburg
Roanoke
Bristol


Vermonter
St. Albans
Burlington-Essex Junction
Waterbury-Stowe
Montpelier-Barre
Randolph
White River Junction
Windsor-Mt. Ascutney
Claremont
Bellows Falls
Brattleboro
Greenfield
Northampton
Holyoke

Springfield
Windsor Locks
Windsor
Hartford
Berlin
Meriden
Wallingford
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Metropark (weekends only)
Trenton
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station

Keystone Service
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport (Limited)
Metropark
New Brunswick (Overnight)
Princeton JCT (Overnight)
Trenton
Cornwells Heights (limited)
North Philadelphia (Limted)
30th Street Station
West Philadelphia
Ardmore
Paoli
Exton
Downingtown
Coatesville
Parkersburg
Atglen
Lancaster
Mount Joy
Elizabethtown
Middletown
Harrisburg


Pennsylvanian
New York Penn Station
Newark Penn station
Trenton
30th Street Station
Ardmore (train 44 only)
Paoli
Exton (trains 42 & 44 only)
Downingtown (train 44 only)
Lancaster
Mount Joy
Elizabethtown
Middletown
Harrisburg
Lewistown
Huntingdon
Tyrone
Altoona
Johnstown
Latrobe
Greensburg
Pittsburgh


Empire Service
New York Penn station
Yonkers
Croton Harmon
Poughkeepsie
Rhinecliff-Kingston
Hudson
Albany-Rensselaer
Schenectady
Amsterdam
Utica
Rome
Syracuse
Rochester
Buffalo-Depew
Buffalo-Exchange St.
Niagara Falls


Downeaster Service
Boston North Station
Woburn
Haverhill
Exeter
Durham
Dover
Wells
Saco-Biddeford
Old Orchard Beach
Portland
Freeport
Brunswick


Proposed / Planned lines

Lackawanna line
New York Penn Station
Newark Board Street Station
Summit
Dover
Delaware Water Gap
East Stroudsburg
Analomink
Pocono Mountain
Tobyhanna
Scranton
Binghamton


Cape Cod Service
New York Penn station
New Rochelle
Stamford
Bridgeport
New Haven
New London
Westerly
Kingston
Providence
Pawtucket
Taunton
Buzzards Bay
Barnstable


Norfolk Service (Opens DEC 2012)
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Route 128
Providence
Kingston
New London
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport (Limited)
Metropark
New Brunswick (Overnight)
Princeton JCT (Overnight)
Trenton
Cornwells Heights (limited)
North Philadelphia (Limted)
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station
Alexandria
Woodbridge
Quantico
Fredricksburg
Ashland
Richmond Staples Mill Road
Richmond Main Street
Chester
Petersburg
Suffolk
Norfolk


Lehigh Line
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Easton
Bethlehem
Allentown
Emmaus
Macungie
Lyons-Kutztown
Fleetwood
Reading
Wyomissing (Could be shifted to Regional Rail after Reading line restored)
Lebanon
Hershey
Harrisburg


Northwest Service
Harrisburg
New Cumberland
York
Riestertown
Owing Mills

Baltimore Penn Station
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Last edited by Nexis; July 10th, 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #3114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
California High Speed Rail Network
Size : 800+ Mi (1,300kms)
Number of lines : 6
Stations : 25+
Projected Ridership : 95 Million a Year or 260,730 Daily
Top Speed : 220mph (350Km/h)
Cost : 68.5 Billion $

Midwest High Speed Rail Network
Size : 700 Mi+ (1,296Kms)
Stations : 76+ (Feeders factored in)
Lines : 6+ with 7 Feeders
Projected Ridership : 43 Million a year or 120,000 daily (Feeders factored in)
Top Speed on Trunk lines : 220mph (350Km/h)
Top Speed on Secondary / Feeder lines : 125mph (201Km/h)
Cost : 58 Billion $


Northeastern High Speed Network
Size : 1940 Mi+ (3,592kms)
Lines : 4+ with 6 Feeders
Stations : 90+ (Feeders factored in)
Projected Ridership : 127 Million a year or 350,000 daily (Feeders factored in)
Top Speed on Trunk lines : 220mph (350Km/h)
Top Speed on Secondary / Feeder lines : 125mph (201Km/h)
Cost : 120 Billion $


Taken from MWHSR , CAHSR and AMtrak Next gen sources
What's the guesstimated time frame for those projects? I do find the cost estimation quite reasonable though.


BTW don't forget Thursday is national train day.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #3115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
What's the guesstimated time frame for those projects? I do find the cost estimation quite reasonable though.


BTW don't forget Thursday is national train day.
2050.....very reasonable time frame and NTD is the first Saturday in May.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 11:33 AM   #3116
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Oops got the month wrong. I think 2050 is very reasonable, if the economy improves it may be completed even quicker.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #3117
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Anything further than 20-25 years in future is a pure speculation. I usually don't take it seriously. Too many things can and will change...
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Old April 20th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #3118
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Secaucus JCT - MAS - 90mph / 2030 : 120mph


image hosted on flickr

DSCN3672 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

DSCN3669 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr




Rahway - MAS 135mph / 2030 : 190mph

image hosted on flickr

DSCN3711 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

DSCN3692 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

DSCN3690 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

DSCN3686 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

Metuchen - MAS 135mph / 2030 : 200mph

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Old April 20th, 2012, 03:25 AM   #3119
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Now I know NEC is a very busy passenger rail corridor, but 6 tracks seems a bit excessive. Have never seen more than 2 trains going side by side in one direction.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 03:53 AM   #3120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
Now I know NEC is a very busy passenger rail corridor, but 6 tracks seems a bit excessive. Have never seen more than 2 trains going side by side in one direction.

During rush hr , you can see up to 4 trains heading in one direction or a 6 train meet... The 6 tracks there are for the North Jersey Coast line merge which is why theres a tunnel seen in one of the pictures.... The 6 track section runs from the Merge in Rahway to Elizabeth , then it goes down to 4 tracks....Amtrak wants it extended up to Newark Airport where it again grows to 6 tracks. Then in Newark its 6 Tracks till Penn Station , Penn Station has 8 tracks if you factor in the PATH and 12 tracks with the LRT....it will be increased to 18 tracks when the streetcar is added... Another 4th track from Newark Penn to Kearny JCT will be built later this decade and from Kearny JCT to Penn Station NY it will be 5-6 tracks by 2030 with 4 tracks running under the Hudson... From NY Penn station to CT it will be 3-5 tracks up from 2 tracks currently. Theres no need for extra tracks in PA , although the HSR plans call for flyovers to be built in North Philly to allow for 220mph service in the future , some sections in PA are up to 8 tracks.... The PRR really overbuilt there lines , there are some sections of the Keystone line that are 9 tracks , but only 4 in use although 2 more will come back online. They did seem to leave alot of room for future yards... Amtrak , NJT and Septa are eyeing 14 massive sites that used to be 5-9 track raceways for future yards... This will allow them to sell there current yards for redevelopment space and build brand new state of the art yards.... Amtrak needs 4 more yards for all the future expansions and HSR equipment , NJT needs 25 with all the new expansions...a few will be built along the corridor and Septa needs 6 since it will sell its center city yard...
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