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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
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Old June 5th, 2012, 12:08 AM   #3201
Nexis
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Overview of the Hell Gate line with planned changes , note the pictures were taken back in 09...so alot of Catenary has been replaced and some other things done

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=860970

1. - The Hell Gate line and New Haven line will berade separated to allow for more trains & @ faster speeds up to 125mph....

image hosted on flickr

METRO-NORTH--IB M8s at Shell Junction by milantram, on Flickr

2. - All Catenary is to be replaced by 2017 with 1-2 Tracks reinstalled

[IMG]http://i45.************/1z3xbx0.jpg[/IMG]

3. - Could be the Future site of the Pelham Manor station for the MNRR Hell Gate line

[IMG]http://i49.************/ziuixe.jpg[/IMG]

4. - The Approach to the Pelham Bay Bridge & the bridge itself will be Replaced and Elevated in the future with 3 -4 tracks

[IMG]http://i50.************/2l9lgyv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i46.************/fvh5s0.jpg[/IMG]

5. - Future site of the Co-Op City station is just around the corner

[IMG]http://i46.************/531k00.jpg[/IMG]

6. - Some Catenary has been replaced , as of 2012 , most of it has been replaced and Constant Tension to allow up to 125mph...although other things need to be done....for the speed to be increased..

[IMG]http://i48.************/1zl9flf.jpg[/IMG]

7. - Future site of the Eastchester station

[IMG]http://i49.************/sqo6dd.jpg[/IMG]

8. - Bronx River Bridge will be rehabbed sometime later this decade

[IMG]http://i49.************/281sm7k.jpg[/IMG]

9. - Future Rehabbed Hunters Point station , the CSX tracks next to the station will have to be moved to allow 4 tracking and the station

[IMG]http://i45.************/209leeb.jpg[/IMG]

10. - Hell Gate tracks rise above the CSX tracks and start there climb to the bridge.

[IMG]http://i48.************/e13wpt.jpg[/IMG]

11. - Little Hell Gate , 1-2 Tracks would restored here....Amtrak has just started replacing the Bridge Deck and Tracks and wires

[IMG]http://i49.************/2lk5utl.jpg[/IMG]

12. - Big Hell Gate

[IMG]http://i49.************/19lgs7.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i45.************/2mmxnrk.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.************/wvvdp1.jpg[/IMG]

13. - CSX tracks break here and continue to Red Hook , Amtrak plans on restoring 1 track from here to Long Island City...

[IMG]http://i45.************/20k3eyx.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.************/x6en7o.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.************/2q8rf6h.jpg[/IMG]

14. - Harold Interlocking where Amtrak meets the LIRR and NJT , it is currently being grade separated and will completed by 2018.

[IMG]http://i46.************/a3fr48.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.************/9pno6q.jpg[/IMG]

15. - One of the 4 tunnels under the east River set to be rehabbed...

[IMG]http://i48.************/eslpp4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.************/2cdbdys.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 5th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #3202
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It look like a 3rd rail and catenary on the same track? Does it use different voltage? Do it use some elaborate systems as in Berlin - http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/voltage_berlin.php ?
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Old June 5th, 2012, 03:41 PM   #3203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
It look like a 3rd rail and catenary on the same track? Does it use different voltage? Do it use some elaborate systems as in Berlin - http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/voltage_berlin.php ?
The third rail is only there because the Long Island Railroad shares that track with Amtrak. LIRR runs on 750 VDC third rail. Amtrak runs on 25 or 12 kVAC catenary. I believe this section of track is 12 kV at 25 or 60 Hz depending on where you are.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #3204
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Other tracks where there is both catenary and 3rd rail at the same track is Boston's MBTA Blue line near airport station.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #3205
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What impact will the Hells Gate line works have on journey times, for example Amtrak journeys to New Haven, and Metro North too?

It's so slow from NYC to New Rochelle.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #3206
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I'm starting to wonder who's more to blame for this mess: Americans who can't see the bigger picture, or politicians who muddied the picture up for them.

Quote:
Californians Turn Against High Speed Rail Project, Poll Finds

A controversial $68-billion high-speed rail project in California has lost support from a majority of Californians, a USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times poll found.

Across the state, 55% of the voters want the bond issue that was approved in 2008 placed back on the ballot, and 59% say they now would vote against it.

Since voters approved that $9-billion borrowing plan, the state and national economic outlook has dimmed and some of the promises about the bullet train have been compromised. Its projected cost has roughly doubled, and it will now share track with slower commuter and freight trains in some areas. Powerful agriculture groups and freight railroads have asserted that proposed routes would damage their interests and compromise safety. Churches, schools, businesses and homeowners are fighting the project.

The poll shows that concerns about the project extend broadly across regions, ethnic groups, income brackets and even political affiliations. In Southern California, 67% of voters said they would reject issuing bullet train bonds if they could vote again.

Although organized labor has been among the biggest proponents of the project, 56% of union households now would reject the state funding plan, the poll found. Even among Democrats, the strongest backers of the project, only 43% would support the bond in a new vote, while 47% would oppose it. And 76% of Republicans would vote it down.

The poll found that most voters don't expect to use it. Sixty-nine percent said they would never or hardly ever ride it. Zero percent said they would use it more than once a week. Public opinion surveys cannot predict the revenues and ridership a rail service might generate. The poll results raise questions about whether the system would serve as a robust commuter network, allowing people to live in small towns and work in big cities or vice versa. On the other hand, 33% of respondents said they would prefer a bullet train over an airplane or car on trips between L.A. and the Bay Area.

The USC Dornsife/L.A. Times survey contacted 1,002 registered voters in mid-May. Two other polls last year also found shrinking support for the project, which was approved by 52.7% of voters in 2008. A third poll this year also found likely voters opposed the project, though adults in general favor it by a small margin...

Read on...
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Last edited by Silver Swordsman; June 7th, 2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #3207
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Ultimately, it's the politicians. People are too busy providing for themselves to learn about this stuff, so they count on other sources for information, including politicians. LA to San Francisco is the busiest air route in the country after New York to Miami, and California could clearly benefit from improved connections north to south. The public is being intentionally misled on this project.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #3208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Ultimately, it's the politicians.
how utterly unamerican a thought...
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Old June 7th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #3209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Ultimately, it's the politicians. People are too busy providing for themselves to learn about this stuff, so they count on other sources for information, including politicians. LA to San Francisco is the busiest air route in the country after New York to Miami, and California could clearly benefit from improved connections north to south. The public is being intentionally misled on this project.
I do think, however, despite my strong enthusiasm for rail improvements and HSR, education and other public services should come first. If we're gutting funding for public schools, other infrastructure repairs, and otherwise pinching money that's needed elsewhere, I can see how that's going to piss a lot of people off.



People should prepare for the future, but it's important not to lose sight of today.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #3210
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i think to me is that high speed rail should be built in phases sure it will take a long time but if its something that cannot be done as a whole, phases are the best way.

since Traffic is the highest for LA to San Francisco then that segment should go first, then the others can follow.

i also have thought that maybe they can upgrade the tracks it won't be high speed rail like what was envisioned but an upgrade can be a first step to improving travel times and the first step towards high speed rail.

I really want California to be the first for High Speed rail but i want it to be practical that way both private and public companies can come to an agreement, i just want things to be fair so that way we can pave way for a better future.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #3211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Ultimately, it's the politicians.
Ya think??
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Old June 7th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #3212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cle View Post
What impact will the Hells Gate line works have on journey times, for example Amtrak journeys to New Haven, and Metro North too?

It's so slow from NYC to New Rochelle.
Well if all go through by 2025 , then you'll see anywhere from 30-60 mins shaved off the journey between NY and Boston...upgrading the entire NEC , will mean that instead of 6hrs from DC to Boston , it will only take 4hrs....the Next Gen NEC brings that to 2hrs but a different route away from the Coast in New England...which adds 2-3hrs to a journey.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #3213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
The problem is, trains are most efficient in densely populated areas, so building an entire HSR ring across such sparsely populated (in overall terms) country sa USA is a mad idea. It's better to start building isolated systems in densily populated areas (like North-East, California, Great lakes area, etc) and after succes of such systems it would be much easier to plan connection of such systems (if it can be feasible, some systems, like californian one will be isolated anyway...).
The U.S. is much denser east of the Mississippi than west of it*. West of the Mississippi you have yon gurt wide-open spaces, the Great Plains, the Rocky Mountains, the Great Basin, and cities averaging 600 miles apart, if there at all. Along the California and Pacific Northwest coastlines there's some more density, but it's generally constrained by the Coast Ranges and Sierra Nevada.

Consequently, HS proposals need to take advantage of this geography: it's economically much easier to implement desirable networks in the Northeast (Benelux density), Midwest (French density), and South (Swedish density, south of Uppsala) than it is in the open middle.

Unfortunately, our politics right now are dominated by a cadre of Southern blowhards...
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* Not quite accurate (see e.g. Iowa)--generally density drops off sharply about 300 miles west of the Mississippi, around Omaha, Kansas City, and DFW-San Antonio. But the Mississippi is an obvious line, so, at the national level, offers a useful geographic marker.
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That's how it works - you fist do simple solutions, and once you succeeded - you go for a complex and expensive one.
Agreed on that front! Unfortunately Americans have gotten so used to implementing the most complicated solutions available--to the point we almost see it as a cultural birthright--that we've just about completely forgotten how to implement incremental solutions.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 12:02 AM   #3214
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i also want to bring something up shouldn't there be a high speed rail from New York City to Chicago i mean since the two cities are huge financial cities and are successful i wonder if NYC and Chicago can be connected more directly by High Speed rail or something close to it?

edit: i have not understood why the routes had to go to washington DC first and then go to chicago, a more direct route would be more efficient and possible, and i hope it will be possible to build i hope we get like a Roosevelt new deal for the 21st century because we need more jobs.

Last edited by goten2255; June 8th, 2012 at 12:23 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #3215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goten2255 View Post
i also want to bring something up shouldn't there be a high speed rail from New York City to Chicago i mean since the two cities are huge financial cities and are successful i wonder if NYC and Chicago can be connected more directly by High Speed rail or something close to it?

edit: i have not understood why the routes had to go to washington DC first and then go to chicago, a more direct route would be more efficient and possible, and i hope it will be possible to build i hope we get like a Roosevelt new deal for the 21st century because we need more jobs.
My guess is that Chicago-New York is considered to be a bit too long, probably around 1300km/750 miles, for current high speed trains, but that's assuming a relatively straight line between them. Currently, the line running through Pittsburgh (the more direct route) is almost 1000 miles long, and there are sections of that track not owned by Amtrak, never mind being very, very curvy, if memory serves. It'd be cheaper to build an entirely new high-speed PDL, and even then, assuming the fastest trains coming into production around the world (the CRH380 class, HEMU-430X, AGV) on non-stop trips, it'd take 4 hours or so, which is only just competitive with flight. And I think people are expecting the trains to blow the planes away, and when they don't, ridership will be too low, and thus the service unjustifiable. Perhaps in 30 years when HSR is, hopefully, successful in the U.S., that'll change.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 01:25 AM   #3216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
My guess is that Chicago-New York is considered to be a bit too long, probably around 1300km/750 miles, for current high speed trains, but that's assuming a relatively straight line between them. Currently, the line running through Pittsburgh (the more direct route) is almost 1000 miles long, and there are sections of that track not owned by Amtrak, never mind being very, very curvy, if memory serves. It'd be cheaper to build an entirely new high-speed PDL, and even then, assuming the fastest trains coming into production around the world (the CRH380 class, HEMU-430X, AGV) on non-stop trips, it'd take 4 hours or so, which is only just competitive with flight. And I think people are expecting the trains to blow the planes away, and when they don't, ridership will be too low, and thus the service unjustifiable. Perhaps in 30 years when HSR is, hopefully, successful in the U.S., that'll change.
Right now they have a major advantage over airlines. Right now, thunderstorms are creating delays at LGA and EWR requiring flights to be held at their origin until 6:30 EDT. For those who were taking a shuttle flight, it would be quicker to take the train due to the delays. Capacity may get strained less when regional jets cannot do flights economically. NYC airports will remain constrained unless operations are curtailed, airports are expanded along with reducing environmental regulations or someone builds a runway over the Parkway next to EWR. HSR on the NEC would probably eliminate PHL-LGA flights which would open up 18 LGA slots. LGA shuttles would survive but they would not be as frequent and downgauged. DC-Boston shuttles would still probably be hourly as it has an advantage as long as there are no airport delays.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #3217
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thats why we need other nations to help the United States to build the high speed rail network. We have to build this network it makes sense and also there are areas with lots of potential.

i am not understanding why is rail so god darn hated here in the states i find it really odd, isn't rail what people invested on back then, isn't Caltrain being electrifed for the stepping stone of High Speed Rail in California i mean it seems odd that the project could not happen for no reason??????

anyways i hope things will be allright and that it will be build one way or another i really don't want it to be gone, the United States is one of the superpowers of the world and its infrustructe needs to be upgraded, fixed and state of the art to maintain business, schools, homes, hospitals, transportation, police stations, fire stations, etc.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #3218
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Rail isn't hated in the Northeast , we'd welcome any $$$ with open arms...
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Old June 8th, 2012, 06:31 AM   #3219
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Rail isn't hated in the Northeast , we'd welcome any $$$ with open arms...
NExis, it was the NJ governor who axed that ACT tunnel project. The biggest rail project in US as it would have been.

And NJ is not Dixie country last time I checked...
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Old June 8th, 2012, 06:40 AM   #3220
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NExis, it was the NJ governor who axed that ACT tunnel project. The biggest rail project in US as it would have been.

And NJ is not Dixie country last time I checked...
Now we have a Gateway Project that he supports , like ive said in the past that project had a ton of issues. He hasn't canceled any other projects and supports several...
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