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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 12th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #3241
aquaticko
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The country is neither broke nor massively in debt. 100% debt:GDP is basically nothing when you're the world's preferred reserve currency. The easiest way to boost our economy would be to pump loads of money into it. But that's getting into an economics discussion thats OT here.
Anyway, if our country was honest with itself, it'd be clear that we can spend a lot more money than we do, especially on infrastructure considering the positive returns that kind of investment usually brings.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #3242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Even the Chinese are building most of their HSR in the eastern 25% of their nation.

The States are simply too big.
USA can easily adopt the same sceme - built 1 HSR line in one of most populated regions, prove it success and than build HSR in other regions... Not all states have enough density for an HSR, so will never see an HSR through entire country...
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:36 AM   #3243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
USA can easily adopt the same sceme - built 1 HSR line in one of most populated regions, prove it success and than build HSR in other regions... Not all states have enough density for an HSR, so will never see an HSR through entire country...
Thats the point I was trying to make.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 01:53 AM   #3244
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Map Key

High Speed Rail - 125-220mph
Regional Rail - 80-125mph
Commuter Rail - 50-100mph








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Old June 13th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #3245
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What's the use of those maps? Wasn't the Wisconsin part already axed?
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Old June 13th, 2012, 04:09 AM   #3246
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What's the use of those maps? Wasn't the Wisconsin part already axed?
It wasn't permenatly axed , just for the time being...those are proposals from Each state....only IL is making headway...these appear to be the 2050 plans...at least that's how long it will take.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #3247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
The country is neither broke nor massively in debt. 100% debt:GDP is basically nothing when you're the world's preferred reserve currency. The easiest way to boost our economy would be to pump loads of money into it. But that's getting into an economics discussion thats OT here.

Anyway, if our country was honest with itself, it'd be clear that we can spend a lot more money than we do, especially on infrastructure considering the positive returns that kind of investment usually brings.
I am not going to get into a thread jack to dissuade you.

Quote:
100% debt:GDP is basically nothing when you're the world's preferred reserve currency.
Unfortunately for Americans they are going to discover that all of the assumptions in your post are simply wrong.

===================================================================================

Regarding HSR, the California proposal is now at a round $100 Bn for 1300 kms, or $70 M per km. To lay one line east coast to west, and flying in the USA can be as low as $300 r/t on the same route, would cost 4167 kms X $70 M or $292 Bn. It would be like building a HSR line from Moscow to Lisbon.

Last edited by China Hand; June 13th, 2012 at 02:55 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 05:24 PM   #3248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Unfortunately for Americans they are going to discover that all of the assumptions in your post are simply wrong.
Dittos. To say that more debt is the way to go simply ignores what is happening in Europe right now.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 06:52 PM   #3249
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If either of you want to PM me so I can straighten things out for you, feel free.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #3250
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The faster the trains, the less you have to make of them. Wouldn't it come out to the same price at the end?
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Old June 13th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #3251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
It wasn't permenatly axed , just for the time being...those are proposals from Each state....only IL is making headway...these appear to be the 2050 plans...at least that's how long it will take.
Wisconsin shifted its priorities. First, get the state's government budget meltdown under control (check). Second, direct the money that is available to where it will do the most good (check). The state is now working on upgrades to the existing very popular Hiawatha service and other sensible upgrades that will then follow in due time.

Mike
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #3252
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Originally Posted by マイルズ View Post
The faster the trains, the less you have to make of them. Wouldn't it come out to the same price at the end?
Same price in terms of what?
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Old June 14th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #3253
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Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
Of course while spending money when the country is in debt is always a tricky issue, but the money spend is ultimately an investment and if an organization or a country has is in a tricky situation (like the US in in) it should not lose sight of investment that can help in the future.
You cannot invest if you do not have the money and no one will lend it to you.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #3254
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Those maps are pipedreams. We may see some improvements, but on that scale, even in 38 year's time? I'd say no.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #3255
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You cannot invest if you do not have the money and no one will lend it to you.
Yeah, no one will lend the U.S. money, which is why we have such high interest rates right now. Oh, wait....
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Old June 14th, 2012, 10:56 PM   #3256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Those maps are pipedreams. We may see some improvements, but on that scale, even in 38 year's time? I'd say no.
No there not.....there plans...wiki them....they have them in phases 1 , 2 & 3 , Phase 1 by 2030 , Phase 2 by 2040 , Phase 3 by 2050.... You always bash the US when it comes to rail even when its good news....why I don't know ...maybe its a bigger hatred of the US. But I would like if you would re frame from being negative down the road...keep it to yourself.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #3257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
.....there plans...wiki them....
Just because you can Wiki something doesn't make it fact. Nexis, were any sources associated with them? That would be helpful.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #3258
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Just because you can Wiki something doesn't make it fact. Nexis, were any sources associated with them? That would be helpful.
For which projects?
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Old June 14th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #3259
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Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
For which projects?
All of them if thats possible. If not, then whatever you can find. I'd like to look at them.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #3260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
No there not.....there plans...wiki them....they have them in phases 1 , 2 & 3 , Phase 1 by 2030 , Phase 2 by 2040 , Phase 3 by 2050.... You always bash the US when it comes to rail even when its good news....why I don't know ...maybe its a bigger hatred of the US. But I would like if you would re frame from being negative down the road...keep it to yourself.
Like above, source please, a wiki isn't enough.

I prefer to consider myself a realist, and there is a strong tendency in the US in particular to massively talk up a project, only for it to come to life in a stunted, half-arsed form amid a mire of political infighting and lawsuits.

I mean, for god's sake, TWO HSR routes between Minneapolis and Tomah, of all places? I'm willing to bet that two out of all the planned HSR routes, and around 10 of the regional rail routes will eventually be built by 2050. Feel free to screencap this/call me out if I'm wrong.
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