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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
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Old September 28th, 2012, 08:06 AM   #3621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Huo View Post
Is Amtrak/Acela sharing same tracks with NJ transit or other metro, intercity rail systems? If there is no dedicated tracks for HSR-like Acela, I imagine that it will be extremely difficult to manage HSR and low speed metro/intercity trains on same tracks.
Its commuter rail , this section is 4 tracks , it ranges from 4 to 8 tracks in NJ so HSR can be squeezed in with Intercity rail....aside from a few 3 tracked or curved areas which will be fixed its fine...the wires are also being replaced.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:00 AM   #3622
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Is it true that Paul Ryan wants to cancel the High speed rail plan?
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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:45 AM   #3623
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Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Is it true that Paul Ryan wants to cancel the High speed rail plan?
I haven't heard that , wouldn't suprise me though...however this doesn't apply to the Northeast...
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:17 AM   #3624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Is it true that Paul Ryan wants to cancel the High speed rail plan?
yep:
http://www.cahsrblog.com/2012/08/pau...ti-hsr-record/
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #3625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Huo View Post
If there is no dedicated tracks for HSR-like Acela, I imagine that it will be extremely difficult to manage HSR and low speed metro/intercity trains on same tracks.
I don't see any problem there. In Germany it is not uncommon to have 250 km/h ICE's, 200 km/h Intercity's, 160 km/h regional trains and 80-100 km/h freight trains all share the same track.
Unfortunately the 'We are so special, so we can't do the same the thing the rest of the world does' argument and the 'Not invented here' syndrome seem to be very prevalent in the rail industry (not only in the USA!).
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Old October 10th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #3626
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I don't see any problem there. In Germany it is not uncommon to have 250 km/h ICE's, 200 km/h Intercity's, 160 km/h regional trains and 80-100 km/h freight trains all share the same track.
Unfortunately the 'We are so special, so we can't do the same the thing the rest of the world does' argument and the 'Not invented here' syndrome seem to be very prevalent in the rail industry (not only in the USA!).
Well, there are some problems indeed.

CAHSR is planned with standards SUPERIOR to German high-speed trains.

Mixed-speed traffic can become uncomfortable at curves, since the superelevation on tracks designed for 350km/h trains would make a rather uncomfortable ride for a 100km/h train, especially if there are any standing passengers.

Freight trains are a different animal in US: they use trains whose length is measured in miles and 3-digit train-car counts
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Old October 10th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #3627
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Well, freight traffic via Caltrain railway, were freight and HS will be met are nowhere like "3-digit train-car counts" - http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/200...peninsula.html There is only a small freight traffic, generated by whatever left from industry in SF itself, no transit freight, and, AFAIK they think about running freight under deelectrified wires anyway, during night. And the shared stretch is only small link between SF terminal and San Jose, where speed of HSR are likely to be limited to 200..220 kmh, AFAIK. The true 350-desighned HSR would be all the long way from San Jose to LA.
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Old October 11th, 2012, 01:02 AM   #3628
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he better not win!
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Old October 11th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #3629
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Freight trains are a different animal in US: they use trains whose length is measured in miles and 3-digit train-car counts
Take advantage of 2 facts: These trains can be split into multiple trains and long trains usually have multiple engines, sometimes even already distributed over the train.

If my sources are correct the only reason freight trains don't exceed 800m in western Europe, is because of braking performance. Especially the time it takes to apply and release the brakes increases with train length. That would make them more difficult to integrate into mixed traffic. The track layout was optimised accordingly.

Quote:
Mixed-speed traffic can become uncomfortable at curves, since the superelevation on tracks designed for 350km/h trains would make a rather uncomfortable ride for a 100km/h train, especially if there are any standing passengers.
In 350 km/h track you shouldn't have sharp corners with extreme superelevations in the first place.
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Old October 11th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #3630
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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
In 350 km/h track you shouldn't have sharp corners with extreme superelevations in the first place.
AFAIK, the higher minimal speed, the more superelevation cam be applied, isn't it?
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Old October 12th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #3631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Take advantage of 2 facts: These trains can be split into multiple trains and long trains usually have multiple engines, sometimes even already distributed over the train.

If my sources are correct the only reason freight trains don't exceed 800m in western Europe, is because of braking performance. Especially the time it takes to apply and release the brakes increases with train length. That would make them more difficult to integrate into mixed traffic. The track layout was optimised accordingly..
You can't really compare both systems. The signaling blocks in US sometimes are huge. I'm not sure pre-CBTC/ECTS systems in Europe are all compatible with trains 2100m long on normal specifications.

Moreover, many freight railways in US transformed whole lines into single-direction only, especially accross mountainous terrain.
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Old October 12th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #3632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
You can't really compare both systems. The signaling blocks in US sometimes are huge. I'm not sure pre-CBTC/ECTS systems in Europe are all compatible with trains 2100m long on normal specifications.

Moreover, many freight railways in US transformed whole lines into single-direction only, especially accross mountainous terrain.
What's wrong with ocuppitoin of multiple blocks? Here in 1520 countries there many 4-digit signaling systems with relatively short blocks that is used for short 12-8 cars suburban trains during rush hour, but than used for freight trains.
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Old October 12th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #3633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
If my sources are correct the only reason freight trains don't exceed 800m in western Europe, is because of braking performance. Especially the time it takes to apply and release the brakes increases with train length. That would make them more difficult to integrate into mixed traffic. The track layout was optimised accordingly.
Historically freight trains have never been that long so there are no freight yards that can handle them, very few passing loops that can handle them, and the layout of points assumes shorter freight trains so longer ones would cause pathing restraints for other traffic.

The reason why braking is important is that the train must be able to stop within a certain length of block, and if its brakes are weak due to train length (I assume this affects air-braked cars only) then the max speed of the train is reduced, which affects pathing and line capacity.

XAN - there is nothing wrong with occupying multiple blocks - Suburbanist is making it up as he goes again.
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Old October 12th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #3634
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The main objection against longer trains in Europe is coupler strength.

And then comes indeed the track layouts that cannot easily accomodate
trains longer than 800 m.

Block lenght also plays a role, not because you cannot occupy multiple
sections, but because you must be able to bring any train to halt in the
distance between two consecutive signals.

And finally, you have acceleration and deceleration performance that must
remain compatible with the many passenger trains that are using the same
tracks. There are very few rail lines in Europe that are for freight only : to
the contrary, there are many lines with 50+ pax trains a day, but with no
freight at all - and not counting HSLs.

But, on the other hand, there is not that much market for large freight trains
in Europe anyway. Such loads are most often transported by ship. There is
no real equivalent in Europe to the transcontinental rail traffic that exists
in North America.
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Old October 21st, 2012, 01:27 PM   #3635
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 10:10 PM   #3636
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Very cool video. Thanks Nexis.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 09:22 PM   #3637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manila-X View Post
There were plans of building a high speed train network in some areas such as California but never went to effect.
Thats not true. In California, the Fresno to Bakersfield segment is in the middle of the environmental review process and just recently advertised an RFQ for Construction Mangement.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #3638
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Is there any word from CHSRA on what country they'll be working with for the design plans? We all know SNCF got thrown out some time ago, now it's a race between China, Japan and other European companies?

Which one stands a greater chance?

Japan - Impeccable safety record and comprehensive knowledge. According to what I remember, they're offering a full deal (Japanese trains, track, signalling).

China - Build it fast and cheap. Somehow, they just know how to reduce costs. Whether this is because China had cheap labor or whether China just knows how to cut money remains a question.

Europe - Integration and Flexibility; CHSR's call for shared track near terminals are more familiar to European systems. Furthermore, Bombardier and Alstom created the Acela trainset, demonstrating that they have the flexibility to conform to American specifications.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #3639
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I say let China take over the right of way for a few years, get a line built, California sends them a check. Get some CRH380D's on the line and California is set. Don't even need to repaint the trains, CRH can stand for California Rail High-Speed.

Most things in the U.S. seem to be made in China.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #3640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


I say let China take over the right of way for a few years, get a line built, California sends them a check. Get some CRH380D's on the line and California is set. Don't even need to repaint the trains, CRH can stand for California Rail High-Speed.

Most things in the U.S. seem to be made in China.
Try selling that to the electorate
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