daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 11th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #3781
yankeesfan1000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,236
Likes (Received): 563

Nice to hear Gateway is slowly creeping forward. Hopefully we can see full blown construction in a year or two.
yankeesfan1000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 11th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #3782
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Nice to hear Gateway is slowly creeping forward. Hopefully we can see full blown construction in a year or two.
They started clearing and prepping the sites in NJ...
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #3783
Cal_Escapee
In Search of Sanity
 
Cal_Escapee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Francisco/Tucson
Posts: 3,690
Likes (Received): 10283

Quote:
California high-speed rail official discusses project during San Francisco visit
By: Bay City News | 01/10/13 8:05 PM

Ben Tripousis, regional director for Northern California, told a packed auditorium at the San Francisco Planning and Urban Research Association that the under-three-hour trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles could be a reality by 2029, but that a host of political, financial and logistical obstacles must be overcome before high-speed trains reach the Bay Area . . . .

One of the keys to making the 800-mile system a reality is moving ahead with early investments in local transportation corridors that will eventually accommodate high-speed trains, Tripousis said.

“Here in the Bay Area, our focus is largely on the electrification of Caltrain,” he said.

As part of the $8 billion high-speed rail funding plan approved by the state Legislature in July, more than $700 million was committed to the electrification of Caltrain between San Francisco and San Jose. Additional investments were committed to other Bay Area agencies, including BART, which is slated to receive $145 million, and the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, which will receive $61 million . . . .

High-speed rail also is expected to stimulate the region’s economic growth by allowing San Francisco International Airport to concentrate on expanding long-distance and international airline service, instead of continuing to be bogged down by north-south regional flights, Gillett said.

“We are reaching our limits in the air,” she said.

Construction on the first operating phase of the rail system — a 130-mile stretch between the Central Valley cities of Madera and Bakersfield — is expected to start in July.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/tran...ing-san-franci

For those unfamiliar with the project, lawsuits have virtually blocked consideration of new parallel tracks for HSR only between San Francisco and San Jose so HSR trains will eventually run on the CalTrain tracks. That means that electrification of calTrain is an essential part of building out HSR.

The other point here is that San Francisco International Airport is near capacity and that it uses too much of its capacity on trips to and from Southern California. That makes development of HSR inevitable IMHO. SFO cannot be meaningfully expanded for environmental reasons. HSR is the only way to provide efficient new NorCal-SoCal service as the state's population grows.
Cal_Escapee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2013, 08:35 PM   #3784
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21237

Will they not build 2 additional tracks on Caltrains ROW?
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2013, 06:00 AM   #3785
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Will they not build 2 additional tracks on Caltrains ROW?
__
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee View Post
For those unfamiliar with the project, lawsuits have virtually blocked consideration of new parallel tracks for HSR only between San Francisco and San Jose...
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 01:26 AM   #3786
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
__
Why?
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 02:01 AM   #3787
XAN_
Registered User
 
XAN_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,034
Likes (Received): 760

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Will they not build 2 additional tracks on Caltrains ROW?
Well, they plan to do this in several steps - first the most critical streches, then - other.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6bMoADk62x...ake_figure.png
__________________
"I'm lost but still I know//There is another world"
-H. Kürsch, 1995
"Well, we all know there's no other side"
-H. Kürsch, 2002
XAN_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #3788
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

The "why" is a bunch of wealthy peninsula NIMBY's.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 07:58 AM   #3789
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Ah. Thanks. I should've known.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #3790
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Any arguments in particular that they're giving?
(i.e. land valuation or something?)
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #3791
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

The CAHSRBlog is where I get most of my information about the issue.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 06:50 PM   #3792
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21237

I still think they could push some elevated tracks over current Caltrain HSR
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #3793
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

I read this report a while back, and saw these graphic illustrations of the air/highway congestion between key city pairings. Ever since, I'd been trying to find them again.

Long story short, I stumbled across that report (High Speed Rail in America 2050) and thought I'd post those graphics here.





Overall scoring of different corridors (based upon such criteria as potential passengers)

Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in the Northeast


Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in the Great Lakes Region


Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in Florida


Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in the Piedmont-Atlantic Region


Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in the Southwest


Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in the Mountain West


Regional Air Market and Highway Congestion in Cascadia


One important trend I gleaned from this was, if you hadn't noticed, the California-Southwest, Northeast, Florida, and Great Lakes Megaregions all have heavy air congestion (which appears to be more chronic than highway congestion in many of these regions as a whole - certain cities in these regions have road congestion, but the over-arching theme is maxed-out capacity of airports serving them).

So it just made me wonder if pushing this as an alternative to driving makes sense. Seems like they should be gunning to devour as much air share as possible, and they should also consider working with airport authorities to do so. In the long run, it'd free up resources for these key hubs to focus more energy on international/long-haul-domestic routes.
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2013, 02:40 AM   #3794
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

I would imagine that the intended goal is different for each region. At least in California, displacing SF-to-LA air travel is one of the primary drivers for the HSR project. But in the NEC it could easily displace car and air, while in the midwest, northwest, southeast, and likely Florida, I'd imagine it'd be displacing car travel, though I'm not really familiar with transportation patterns in terms of modal share for those areas.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #3795
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
I would imagine that the intended goal is different for each region. At least in California, displacing SF-to-LA air travel is one of the primary drivers for the HSR project. But in the NEC it could easily displace car and air, while in the midwest, northwest, southeast, and likely Florida, I'd imagine it'd be displacing car travel, though I'm not really familiar with transportation patterns in terms of modal share for those areas.
I can imagine that domestic air travel (SF to LA) would die out within a year of CHSR's opening. HSR simply holds the advantage here. Automobile traffic is another story, which depends on how the city is structured, and how available (convenient) the HSR service is to the general public. If it is well-connected by reliable bus and mass transit networks, then automobile will drop. Until then, intercity road trips may drop, but will be offset by a spike in intracity traffic.

Fair trade.
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 12:51 AM   #3796
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21237

High-speed rail hasn't killed air traffic in other busy routes like London-Paris or Barcelona-Madrid.

There is always the issue of connecting flights. People flying to SFO via LAX or vice-versa will likely keep using airplanes because they area already at the airport. Since LAX is a major international hub, I'd exepct a sizeable number of flights on that route to be kept.
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #3797
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

That's particularly the case if one airport is significantly bigger than the other. Also for some people not going directly to LA or San Franciso flying with its easy access to road network will still make sense. Of course there would be less flights than today.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #3798
Starfish PRime
Registered User
 
Starfish PRime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 133
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
High-speed rail hasn't killed air traffic in other busy routes like London-Paris or Barcelona-Madrid.

There is always the issue of connecting flights. People flying to SFO via LAX or vice-versa will likely keep using airplanes because they area already at the airport. Since LAX is a major international hub, I'd exepct a sizeable number of flights on that route to be kept.
Keep in mind that airports can have rail stations serving HS trains.
Starfish PRime no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 02:08 AM   #3799
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

High speed rail share relative to air (effect to road traffic is limited) can be estimated by this formula:



s - rail share, t - time in minutes

So with a rather optimistic travel time from LA to SF of 2h 30 min the optimal rail share would be about 75% (excluding transfer passengers)

In your case probably lower than this because both endpoints lack good public transport options for further travel. Also this assumes that prices for flying and rail are similar. In some places in Europe airlines have managed to regain a bit of ground by drastically slashing prices.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2013, 02:45 AM   #3800
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21237

That is just an estimation model that has an enourmous error term.
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium