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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:54 AM   #3801
Sunfuns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is just an estimation model that has an enourmous error term.
I said estimate instead of calculate, didn't I?
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Old January 16th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #3802
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If someone landed in LAX while his destination was in SF, he probably wouldn't book a transfer flight to SFO if the airport's jammed (or delayed due to bad weather). Assuming the airport is connected to CHSR, he will just take the train (which is presumably on-time and service in relatively good frequency).

That's basically Taiwan. Once you have the airport connected via HSR, the demand for regional airports drops to zero. The only time when air actually stands a competing chance against HSR in the "sweet spot" is when the train is already nearing capacity (and it is becoming difficult to buy tickets), and by aggressively slashing prices.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #3803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
High-speed rail hasn't killed air traffic in other busy routes like London-Paris or Barcelona-Madrid.

There is always the issue of connecting flights. People flying to SFO via LAX or vice-versa will likely keep using airplanes because they area already at the airport. Since LAX is a major international hub, I'd exepct a sizeable number of flights on that route to be kept.
...I was always under the impression that it had.


*part of a larger info-graphic found here.

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post

In your case probably lower than this because both endpoints lack good public transport options for further travel. Also this assumes that prices for flying and rail are similar. In some places in Europe airlines have managed to regain a bit of ground by drastically slashing prices.
The great thing about this taking over a quarter of a century to completely build, is that mass transit in LA at that time will pretty much be ubiquitous...

Last edited by phoenixboi08; January 16th, 2013 at 02:36 PM.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 11:36 PM   #3804
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Interesting...

"A trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles, which is about 410, 420 miles, will take two hours and 38 minutes with a one-way fare of $55," Kopp says.

The last I'd heard, I thought that estimate was supposed to be $150 or so?
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Old January 20th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #3805
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Source: www.insidebayarea.com

Quote:
Amtrak, California to team up to buy high-speed rail trains

By Kevin Freking Associated Press
Posted: 01/17/2013 12:34:29 PM PST
Updated: 01/17/2013 01:12:38 PM PST

WASHINGTON -- The two biggest players in the nation's pursuit of high-speed rail said Thursday they'll work together to search for trains that will operate at up to 220 mph along both coasts of the United States.

Officials with Amtrak and the California High-Speed Rail Authority said they envision that the two systems will purchase about 60 trains during the next decade. The first order could take place next year.

The aim is for manufacturers to design trains that will work for both systems. In the process, their combined buying power should generate better pricing from manufacturers.
Read more: http://www.insidebayarea.com/breakin...igh-speed-rail
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Old January 21st, 2013, 11:17 AM   #3806
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60 trainsets in 10 years? I thought Amtrak alone will need that many, that number just seems to be low. If CAHSR happens in the next five years or so they will need a lot more than 60 trainsets to make the line worthwhile. Boeing can make almost that many planes in a month, even Chinese manufacturers deliver upward of 300 trainsets annually.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 06:11 PM   #3807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
60 trainsets in 10 years? I thought Amtrak alone will need that many, that number just seems to be low. If CAHSR happens in the next five years or so they will need a lot more than 60 trainsets to make the line worthwhile. Boeing can make almost that many planes in a month, even Chinese manufacturers deliver upward of 300 trainsets annually.
The first press release I read was some 100+ trainsets (split between the two).

Edit: No, that's obviously wrong. Didn't realize you were talking about the first wave (next 10 years).
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Old January 21st, 2013, 07:11 PM   #3808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
They started clearing and prepping the sites in NJ...
Where?
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:28 AM   #3809
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Where?
South of Jersey Ave to North of Trenton station , some new poles are in place and an new access road has been created...
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 03:27 PM   #3810
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South of Jersey Ave to North of Trenton station , some new poles are in place and an new access road has been created...
Thank you
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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:03 AM   #3811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
High-speed rail hasn't killed air traffic in other busy routes like London-Paris or Barcelona-Madrid.

There is always the issue of connecting flights. People flying to SFO via LAX or vice-versa will likely keep using airplanes because they area already at the airport. Since LAX is a major international hub, I'd exepct a sizeable number of flights on that route to be kept.
Airlines can also include HSL itinerary instead of a flight. For example, Air France no longer serves the Paris-Brussels route by plane and instead sells tickets for the train.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:11 AM   #3812
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Not surprising, high speed rail going nowhere:

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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:45 AM   #3813
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Bogus report. The money spent on the Vermont project was never intended for true high speed rail-it's totally dishonest to show CAHSR conceptual videos as what was intended for this service. And 28 minutes faster in the schedule is actually pretty good infrastructure improvement. Never trust the American mainstream media to report railway matters accurately- most reporters and editors are f*#king clueless about railways.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #3814
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28 minutes is not worth billions $$$$. It's just not.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:55 AM   #3815
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I stopped watching after Randall O'Toole popped his head in, and got me a puke bucket.

Noting that CNN has a reputation for being liberal, I'm surprised that they've managed to become this misinformed.

I especially like how it was made to look cost-ineffective by comparing the money spent with the "size" of the improvement, not taking into account the industrial pricing of such endeavors; it's going to take a LOT more money to catch up 50 years of lagging development. $13 billion is simply a drop in the bucket if you want to modernize the railway system in America. $52 million for a route may seem like a lot of taxpayer money, but for HSR, it simply is not.

I'm surprised that this report has the balls to call itself "Making Them Honest" while omitting critical truths--they compared it to foreign systems, but neglected to compare the costs; the Ethan Allen express featured in this news report is around 388km long, a little more than the distance covered by Taiwan High Speed Rail, which totalled $15 billion dollars. $52 million vs. $15 billion, go figure.

Neither did this report mention that this service used to be one of the worst passenger services in America, and that with just $52 million dollars, it has become one of the best intercity HrSR lines in the country, or that ridership has jumped by nearly 11% immediately after the improvements. This line, in fact proves that passenger rail service is feasible in the US, so long that it has a little financial encouragement.

CNN, you disappoint me.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:42 AM   #3816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
$13 billion is simply a drop in the bucket if you want to modernize the railway system in America. $52 million for a route may seem like a lot of taxpayer money, but for HSR, it simply is not.
There is a difference between a want and a need. When taxpayers are going to be on the hook for billions, it would be wise to clarify that distinction. It's people that act like $13 billion is chump change that make me want to puke.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 11:18 AM   #3817
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There is a difference between a want and a need. When taxpayers are going to be on the hook for billions, it would be wise to clarify that distinction. It's people that act like $13 billion is chump change that make me want to puke.
Please tell me how investing $13 billion for passenger rail is "chump change" when the Interstate has recieved annual subsidies of $30 billion since 1970...
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #3818
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Ethan Allen and Adirondack Lines


This is probably the most dishonest coverage I've seen in a while...

That money has been going to rail improvements in general since the get-go. It wasn't earmarked for High Speed Rail only...

Besides all that, this is not the completed project. That will extend the Ethan Allen line to Burlington, which sees many Canadian tourists, and on to Montreal.

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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #3819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Please tell me how investing $13 billion for passenger rail is "chump change" when the Interstate has recieved annual subsidies of $30 billion since 1970...
Because literally millions more people use the interstate system every year. $13 billion to unnecessarily "modernize" the railway system is part of our problem.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #3820
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Wow; that is a tragically bad report.

First of all, they mention that Vermont is a small, low-population state, and then wonder why there are so few passengers on the train. Second, they say "it's been three years since the start of California's high-speed rail initiative, and nothing's happened" as if any similar project anywhere has ever been completed in that short a time span; certainly to expect that sort of alacrity in a place like the U.S. is just stupid. Third, they talk on and on about millions of tax dollars gone into minor rail improvements without ever putting that figure into perspective, either against international rail projects or even U.S. spending on roads. Fourth, the reporter says "as we approach this 21st century rail, we're still seeing slow trains"; well then clearly in fact we're not approaching 21st century rail standards. Fifth, as Silver Swordsman mentioned, Randal O'Toole? Seriously? That they feel they have to mention that the Cato Institute is libertarian shows they think he may not be an unbiased source of information, so why would they use him as a reference at all?

If I thought it'd matter, I'd send them an angry email for what is essentially spreading misinformation among the public. Considering CNN, it's probably just sitting-on-my-ass journalism. Pathetic.
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