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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 9th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #3881
aquaticko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
Not really, it will get worse, HSR is just as expensive as highways and airlines.
The point is that we don't have an option of "don't build anything". Nevermind the poor state of our infrastructure now; even if it was in perfect condition, it wouldn't be sufficient to handle transportation needs in ten or twenty years without expansion. We have to build something, particularly if we don't want our economy to suffer in the long-term.

It frankly doesn't matter if things cost a lot of money; other countries which are less important to the global economy have historically had higher debt:GDP ratios with few consequences. We are the reserve currency, and still the most important economy in the world, so no one would try to bring us down by asking for us to pay our debts because to do so would be against their interest. If you won't know why that's the case, do some more reading, making sure to avoid any Austrian school economics, which have been about this recession ever since it began.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 05:16 AM   #3882
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DesertXpress is now XpressWest

A high-speed train would help Palmdale grow and benefit Las Vegas





Quote:
The city of Palmdale, Calif., recently hosted a diversity summit where Las Vegas business owners brainstormed strategies to win contracts for building XpressWest, the proposed high-speed train to Southern California.

XpressWest initially was slated to run only between Las Vegas and Victorville, Calif., but agreements reached last year extended it 50 miles west to Palmdale. Palmdale is part of the California High-Speed Rail line and is a key connection point for carrying people between Las Vegas and Los Angeles.

Palmdale Mayor James Ledford recently sat down with VEGAS INC to talk about what XpressWest means both to his city and to Las Vegas:

[...]

read more:http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2013/fe...and-las-vegas/
A big idea, but that first step...


http://www.xpresswest.com/network.html
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Old February 10th, 2013, 05:21 AM   #3883
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Sorry about the XL size of these:


http://www.xpresswest.com/expansion.html


http://www.xpresswest.com/expansion.html
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Old February 10th, 2013, 06:48 AM   #3884
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build it I say...build it!!!!
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Old February 10th, 2013, 06:58 AM   #3885
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


build it I say...build it!!!!
The money, SHOW THE POLITICIANS THE MONEYYY!
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Old February 10th, 2013, 07:04 AM   #3886
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Typical political banter I say. And once again, I also have to say kudos to those who can back their points up with actual numbers rather than pure opinionated claims. Sure, save the money now because we can't afford it. Prudent right? Wrong. Selfish and shortsighted is what I say. How will you feel when our kids have to deal with the growing mess we left them because we refused to invest in their future? Oh wait, you probably don't, and won't care anyway, so long as you still have money in your pocket in the near term.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #3887
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Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Salt Lake City and Phoenix are realistic, somewhat.

Denver? No friggin way. There wouldnt be any demands and the cost would be astronomical. Could go to Mars at cheaper price.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #3888
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The Bombardier Zefiro looks great!
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Old February 10th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #3889
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The Desert Express/Xpress West is a mostly private project.

It is probably not expensive to build the Palmdale-Victorville-Las Vegas sector. It is mostly barren land, just one relatively gentle slope.

The problem is how to get within LA Basin. Metrolink is a joke up there, too slow. The fastest trains to LA Union Station take 1h33, most take between 1h50 and 2h05. And the highway over the Tejon pass is also heavily trafficked.

Which means: you take trains faster to Palmdale and lose all advantages on time just to get Downtown.

Now a high-speed train to Denver from SLC? Extremely unlikely. Since 500km of tunnels are a non-starter, the only viable route if via the Wyoming Great Basin. Still a challenge to climb the mountains east of SLC. But that would be a high-speed alignment with hundreds of kms of nothing but Grassland and 3 small-ish towns: Evanston, Laramie and Cheyenne.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #3890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
The point is that we don't have an option of "don't build anything". Nevermind the poor state of our infrastructure now; even if it was in perfect condition, it wouldn't be sufficient to handle transportation needs in ten or twenty years without expansion. We have to build something, particularly if we don't want our economy to suffer in the long-term.

It frankly doesn't matter if things cost a lot of money; other countries which are less important to the global economy have historically had higher debt:GDP ratios with few consequences. We are the reserve currency, and still the most important economy in the world, so no one would try to bring us down by asking for us to pay our debts because to do so would be against their interest. If you won't know why that's the case, do some more reading, making sure to avoid any Austrian school economics, which have been about this recession ever since it began.

Because this is all a plan for agenda 21 and believe it is no conspiracy theory, it is a fact.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #3891
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...So, you don't like this because it's part of a UN drive to improve the environment and therefore quality of life? What's the problem? Don't like being told what to do? Grow up.

This is all OT, but I'll just say that someone with your perspective on things is likely to be a bit lonely in a place like this.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #3892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
It frankly doesn't matter if things cost a lot of money; other countries which are less important to the global economy have historically had higher debt:GDP ratios with few consequences. We are the reserve currency, and still the most important economy in the world, so no one would try to bring us down by asking for us to pay our debts because to do so would be against their interest. If you won't know why that's the case, do some more reading, making sure to avoid any Austrian school economics, which have been about this recession ever since it began.
There's even more to it than that: Despite hysteria from the right over deficits (never mind what happens to the deficit when Repubs are in power!), interest rates are appallingly, scarily low, especially for debt backed by the US government. Now is the time to borrow the money and build the infrastructure, not when a healthy economy forces interest rates back to normal levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
The problem is how to get within LA Basin.
Indeed. That's why (maybe) XPress West should be built as an adjunct to CaHSR, with an interchange allowing direct trains from both the northern and the southern legs of the CaHSR mainline.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #3893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Desert Express/Xpress West is a mostly private project.

It is probably not expensive to build the Palmdale-Victorville-Las Vegas sector. It is mostly barren land, just one relatively gentle slope.

The problem is how to get within LA Basin. Metrolink is a joke up there, too slow. The fastest trains to LA Union Station take 1h33, most take between 1h50 and 2h05. And the highway over the Tejon pass is also heavily trafficked.

Which means: you take trains faster to Palmdale and lose all advantages on time just to get Downtown.

Now a high-speed train to Denver from SLC? Extremely unlikely. Since 500km of tunnels are a non-starter, the only viable route if via the Wyoming Great Basin. Still a challenge to climb the mountains east of SLC. But that would be a high-speed alignment with hundreds of kms of nothing but Grassland and 3 small-ish towns: Evanston, Laramie and Cheyenne.
Well, AFAIK there will be a new CHSR Palmdale-LA access railway, so it isn't a problem...
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Old February 10th, 2013, 11:24 PM   #3894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
Because this is all a plan for agenda 21 and believe it is no conspiracy theory, it is a fact.
Get that conspiracy bullshit off this site , Agenda 21 was based off Northeastern style living and European style living....its for developing nations not developed nations. If you believe otherwise then there's something wrong with you....you probably believe the Govt is trying to poison you through the water supply.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #3895
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To get this "back on the rails" http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/...ted-States.jpg

This image has made its way around the web and I am surprised it has not ended up here yet. Do we need a significant vision like this for HSR to get it off the ground? I think we need to get investments going in major corridors first before we attempt connecting major areas.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #3896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G5man View Post
To get this "back on the rails" http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/...ted-States.jpg

This image has made its way around the web and I am surprised it has not ended up here yet. Do we need a significant vision like this for HSR to get it off the ground? I think we need to get investments going in major corridors first before we attempt connecting major areas.
Interesting map. Seems to have a unified design and all. Any more info on this and perhaps a bigger version?
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Old February 11th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #3897
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Your are dead wrong, agenda 21 is treason and needs to stop right now damn it!!

NO AGENDA 21!
it is treason!

and you are sheep.

http://ntlconsulting.blogspot.com/20...s-treason.html
That's just another side of expensive (har to get) oil coin.
Oil and oil products are great for individual use - they can easily and effectively used on board of moving vehicle (energy density is high and used products are just exhausted, you don't need to haul them), they are effective both in small and big engines. It can relatively easily and effectively be stored by individuals or small communities for long.

Whatever is coming next (nuclear, thermo-nuclear, renewable) won't be as good... Because they are effective either with gigantic vehicles (heavy ships) or with big...medium sized-vechiles able to feed of greed (that imply that there is a vast amount of traffic). Electricity is much harder to store individually in vast amount - batteries are costly per unit, pumped storages are cheap per unit, but they should be rather large for that.


Both scenarios require lot of cooperation to reach efficiency, you know, like sharing a vehicle or some other vital infrastructure with those horrific strangers, who tends to be evil and etc.

The entire shift from fossil fuels will throw us from highly individual forms of transportation to public ones. It sad but true. You can mourn good old 50th and 60th, but sadly, they aren't coming back in our life-time, they are gone, just like the golden age of Great Britain, powered by coal, golden ages of Portugal and Holland powered by wind, and etc.
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Last edited by XAN_; February 11th, 2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #3898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G5man View Post
To get this "back on the rails" http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/...ted-States.jpg

This image has made its way around the web and I am surprised it has not ended up here yet. Do we need a significant vision like this for HSR to get it off the ground? I think we need to get investments going in major corridors first before we attempt connecting major areas.
Bingo. You first create isolated systems in the best spots, then, after receiving public acknowledge you extend them, and if it comes a day, when it's become feasible to connect some of systems - you do that!* The only point that should be considered from day 0 - federal standards for most vital interoperability issues like power type (but 25 kV AC is the de-facto world-wide standard), platform height (if Amtrack and CSHR would share train design, it's safe to assume it will be 1100 mm?) and signalling systems.

*that's how it would best work in decentralized country like USA or Germany. Centralized countries like France are whole another story
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Old February 12th, 2013, 01:41 AM   #3899
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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
Bingo. You first create isolated systems in the best spots, then, after receiving public acknowledge you extend them, and if it comes a day, when it's become feasible to connect some of systems - you do that!* The only point that should be considered from day 0 - federal standards for most vital interoperability issues like power type (but 25 kV AC is the de-facto world-wide standard), platform height (if Amtrack and CSHR would share train design, it's safe to assume it will be 1100 mm?) and signalling systems.

*that's how it would best work in decentralized country like USA or Germany. Centralized countries like France are whole another story
We should definitely create the same platform height, signal system, and electrical system. I believe that the Miami-Boston segment would be able to be created as the entire Eastern Seaboard could be a stretch of HSR segments like the Tokaido, Sanyo, and Kyushu Shinkansens. Chicago-San Antonio would be a matter of branching Tulsa-Kansas City given that San Antonio-Dallas-Tulsa already makes sense as a 220 mph corridor along with Chicago-Kansas City. The western segments are where there are the most issues. Between Tuscon and El Paso and San Antonio, I could not justify those segments unless they were 110 mph trunk freight lines for fast 2 day shipping via rail. Juarez-Denver does not make much sense. Eugene-Sacramento will have massive engineering challenges.

I do not agree with a separate trunk going to Champaign and Carbondale. I would rather utilize the Midwest HSR alignment through Champaign to St. Louis and then branch down toward Mempis before continuing on to reduce duplicative infrastructure. The same goes for the Indianapolis branch to Louisville, I would rather build a Wye closer to Cincinnati. I would also rather have a Boston-Montreal segment go via Albany to reduce the needed construction. Even though that would extend the line, it could connect Hartford to the 220 mph grid and Montreal does not have enough demand I feel to warrant a corridor from the border-Albany and NYC along with Boston. Chicago-Lincoln I could see on 110 mph tracks but not 220 mph tracks.
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Old February 12th, 2013, 02:26 AM   #3900
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Anyone got a $trillion to spare? :P

Here's What An American High Speed Rail Network Could Look Like



Quote:
High speed rail is moving forward in California, but progress is pretty stagnant around the rest of the country. Still, there are a lot of proposals out there, and when placed on one map, they form an impressive rail network.

This map was put together by California Rail Map, led by Alfred Twu, which combined existing proposals from high speed rail advocacy groups around the US. Twu described his process for the Guardian:

Quote:
Instead of detailing construction phases and service speeds, I took a little artistic license and chose colors and linked lines to celebrate America's many distinct but interwoven regional cultures.
The US High Speed Rail Association, a nonprofit trade association, predicts a network similar to this one could be in place by 2030. Transporation Secretary Ray LaHood has called for a large HSR network, saying it could link 80 percent of Americans within 25 years, for $500 billion. [that's being optimistic]

Based on this map, starting in Los Angeles, a high speed train could get to New York, with stops in Denver and Chicago, in well under 18 hours.

Considering the significant funding and political will any large rail project needs, it's hard to imagine all this will be built. But Robert Cruickshank at the California High Speed Rail Blog argues just visualizing the network is a good thing:

Quote:
But before the Interstate Highway System was authorized, it had to first be conceptualized on a map. This map gets us closer to the goal of an interstate high speed rail system by showing us what it looks like. And envisioning such a system is the first step toward building it
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/map-o...#ixzz2KdjcbtIb
Two lines running through my state of only 2 million people? Worth every billion.
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