daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 12th, 2013, 03:52 AM   #3901
1772
Registered User
 
1772's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,573
Likes (Received): 1439

Looks great; but again... Who's paying?
Get this deficit under control, quit the all-out spending. After a couple of years; go ahead!
1772 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 12th, 2013, 04:43 AM   #3902
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17032

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Looks great; but again... Who's paying?
Get this deficit under control, quit the all-out spending. After a couple of years; go ahead!
I doubt the debt will ever been under control in this country , its infrastructure you just build it as long as it adds to the economy. In the Northeast and Cali the Economies are starting to strain due to the congestion and then you get stagnant growth which damages the entire country.
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 05:41 AM   #3903
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,643
Likes (Received): 53462

Texas HSR: Officials wrangle over high-speed rail study


A Japanese train manufacturer may foot much of the $10 billion cost for HSR between Dallas and Houston.

Quote:
State and regional leaders are at odds over whether a company that wants to build a 200 mph bullet train from Houston to Dallas should be required to conduct an environmental study that also includes rail stops in Fort Worth and either Arlington or Dallas/Fort Worth Airport.

North Texas leaders say it's crucial that the proposed Texas Central Railway stop not only in downtown Dallas but also in downtown Fort Worth as well as somewhere about midway between the region's two dominant cities. That way, the high-speed rail line can pick up passengers from throughout the Metroplex instead of just the east side. "I want it to run from Houston to Fort Worth, with a stop in Dallas," Tarrant County Commissioner Gary Fickes said.

But the Japanese-backed company that has proposed building the rail line, Texas Central High-Speed Railway Llc., is proposing to conduct only an environmental study from the outskirts of Houston to downtown Dallas. The Texas Department of Transportation supports that plan and is asking regional planners in Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth to conduct separate environmental studies to figure out how the trains would connect in the inner cities.

[...]

But many North Texas leaders disagree. Members of the Regional Transportation Council agreed more than a year ago that if a 200-mph train system can be built in the area, it must include at least three stations.

Splitting the project into separate environmental studies violates the spirit of that agreement, they said. "Recent travel demand analysis conducted by Texas Central Railway confirms that passengers traveling from Houston are destined to all three of the North Texas stations at downtown Dallas, Arlington/DFW Airport and downtown Fort Worth," Michael Morris, transportation director for the North Central Texas Council of Governments, wrote in a Jan. 4 letter to Wilson. "TxDOT's proposal for separate environmental documents developed independently by the public sector and private sector for the connecting facilities jeopardizes this three-station concept policy and does not serve our region's transportation needs as defined in our long range transportation plan."

Texas Central Railway director Travis Kelly said the disagreement can be worked out and won't slow the project. He said all the parties involved were talking through the best way to handle the environmental work. "We think serving Fort Worth would be terrific and would pick up a lot of riders," Kelly said. But he said, "There is also additional right-of-way cost." The company, which is backed by the firm that built the world-renowned Central Japan Railway Co., is seeking roughly $10 billion in private investment to open Texas high-speed rail by 2020.

The group says it won't ask for state or federal funding, though North Texas officials are learning that extending the service into inner cities will cost more than the private sector is willing to put in.

Texas Central Railway envisions that most train riders would drive to the stations, at least in initial years. They would board in Dallas and arrive in Houston about 90 minutes later. But in major metro areas such as Dallas-Fort Worth, regional planners say the bullet trains need to connect the central business districts, so that users can access the system by bus, commuter rail or other local means.

[...]
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01...#storylink=cpy
Everyone wants a station, and everyone wants an EIS...
__________________
We are floating in space...
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #3904
SamuraiBlue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Likes (Received): 195

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post

Everyone wants a station, and everyone wants an EIS...
Yup but no one is willing to pick up the tab.

I do not think it is wise for the state government trying to strong arm a private company that is willing to pour in private funds for something they do not plan on doing.
If the state government wants it they should do it on their own or at least provide more incentive towards the private company so some benefit can be found.
SamuraiBlue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 06:34 AM   #3905
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,643
Likes (Received): 53462

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Yup but no one is willing to pick up the tab.

I do not think it is wise for the state government trying to strong arm a private company that is willing to pour in private funds for something they do not plan on doing.
If the state government wants it they should do it on their own or at least provide more incentive towards the private company so some benefit can be found.
But it also behooves the developers to appease TxDOT since that's a pretty big ace up their sleeve if they go over budget or want to expand the system.
__________________
We are floating in space...
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 07:27 AM   #3906
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1030

Never mind that asking for independently-conducted environmental impact statements is just courting disaster; there so many variable parameters in those things, I don't know why anyone would want to carry them out that way, and it's bound to end up stuck in pointless arguments about this or that if they don't do it together.

Oh and also, Texas-based newspaper, that's a Chinese train, not a Japanese one. Saw the same picture on a different news article on a different website the other day about the Korean HEMU-430x train, too. Sloppy journalism.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 08:27 AM   #3907
SamuraiBlue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Likes (Received): 195

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
But it also behooves the developers to appease TxDOT since that's a pretty big ace up their sleeve if they go over budget or want to expand the system.
Why don't the State request some federal funding for the extension since the private company is not looking for any federal/state assistance.
SamuraiBlue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 08:42 AM   #3908
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,643
Likes (Received): 53462

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Why don't the State request some federal funding for the extension since the private company is not looking for any federal/state assistance.
The state will figure much larger. Texas is increasingly awash in oil money from the massive shale boom. TxDOT will be seeing billions more in funds while the federal government [literally] goes nowhere.
__________________
We are floating in space...
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #3909
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
that's a Chinese train, not a Japanese one.
I'm thinking the reporters are god-tier trolls
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.

Silver Swordsman liked this post
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #3910
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1030

aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #3911
skyscraperhighrise
Registered User
 
skyscraperhighrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 1,267
Likes (Received): 1084

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Looks great; but again... Who's paying?
Get this deficit under control, quit the all-out spending. After a couple of years; go ahead!
Not gonna happen sadly.
__________________
Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

#standwithrand

R.I.P. QuantumX, you will never be forgotten.
skyscraperhighrise no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #3912
Smooth Indian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 241

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Looks great; but again... Who's paying?
Get this deficit under control, quit the all-out spending. After a couple of years; go ahead!
Isn't Deficit already starting to go down? Just read about this a few days ago. Anyways Cali is going ahead with the construction. I guess the other regions should also starting planning for funding and getting their construction started in the coming years.
BTW the first cultural map seems to be more practical than the previous USHSR plan.
Smooth Indian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 12:36 AM   #3913
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1030

It's completely normal, historically speaking, to run a large deficit during a recession. And yes, the federal debt level is already decreasing, albeit slightly; California in particular is actually in surplus right now (ignoring debts from previous budgets). As soon as we get the economy moving again, and assuming we don't decrease taxes anymore, the federal debt should shrink even more.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 06:00 AM   #3914
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17032

SNOW ACELA time...





__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section

Silver Swordsman liked this post
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 09:31 AM   #3915
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Oy! Somebody grab the puke bucket--quick!

Quote:
Why High Speed Rail is a Ridiculous Fantasy

By: Randal O'Toole

High-speed rail supporter Alfred Twu has gotten a lot of attention for having boldly drawn a map of where he thinks high-speed trains should go. Never mind that Twu’s map is even more absurd than Obama’s plan. What’s sad is that the romance of trains still manages to hold peoples’ attention long after passenger trains have become technologically and economically obsolete.

Anybody can draw a map, and that map is likely to reflect their own particular preferences. My ideal high-speed rail line would connect my home in Camp Sherman, Oregon (population 380) with Cato’s offices in Washington, DC. Of course, I tend to move about every eight or nine years, so by the time the rail line was finished the only potential regular customer would be gone. But just think of the jobs that would be created!

Twu lives in California, and his map has six lines radiating from Los Angeles and two from San Francisco. Twu is probably thinking either of where he would like to go by high-speed train or that everyone else would like to come to California by high-speed train. (He would also like us to “imagine no cars” in which case everyone would happily live in high-density, mixed-use developments. Like many planning types, he doesn’t understand the economics behind the horror of dumbbell tenements.)

Economist Megan McArdle points out that Twu’s New York-Los Angeles line makes little sense. Few people will want to spend 18 hours (McArdle’s estimate) in a coach seat when planes can do the same trip in six at a far lower cost. Nor will many intermediate segments, such as Chicago to Omaha or Denver to Las Vegas, attract large numbers of passengers. Thus, the trains will be fairly empty for much of the route.

McArdle doesn’t mention the even more absurd Los Angeles-Miami line on Twu’s map. As this analysis shows, Los Angeles-New Orleans is Amtrak’s least-used long-distance train, and Amtrak’s attempt to extend this route to Miami failed (partly due to Hurricane Katrina) after just a few years.

Twu’s map also includes routes from Cheyenne to El Paso; Chicago to Montreal; and a line to McAllen, Texas and beyond into Mexico. Other than the politicians that represent these regions, how could anyone take these routes seriously?

Twu’s map violates conventional wisdom among high-speed rail aficionados, which holds that trains are most competitive in 100- to 600-mile markets, not 2,000- to 3,000-miles. By “most competitive,” of course, they mean “able to capture 5 or 6 percent of the market,” which–when all modes are counted–is all that Amtrak has in the Boston-to-Washington corridor.

Rail supporters argue that Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor barely qualifies as high-speed rail as its top speed is only 150 and its average speed only about half that (which also means that none of the lines funded by the Obama administration, outside of California, qualify either). But dreaming about faster trains does little to change the fact that the fastest trains in the world are only about half as fast as jet aircraft, nor the fact that more Americans live and work within a few minutes of airports than downtown train stations. Anyone who is really serious about speeding travel would find ways to speed airport security, which would cost a lot less and do a lot more to help a lot more travelers than building multi-billion-dollar rail lines...

For more high speed puke...
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #3916
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Oy! Somebody grab the puke bucket--quick!
If only there was a comment box..

His assumptions are whack as f--k
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #3917
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17032

Thats a Anti-Rail & Transit group who is pro Highway and big oil.....
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #3918
Don31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 94
Likes (Received): 9

Randal O'Toole??? Are you f**king kidding me?? The guy is a tool for Big Oil and knows nothing about accepted land use and planning principles.
Don31 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #3919
b4z
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 1

Americans have somehow gotten stuck on coast to coast HSR. That is secondary or tertiary to is usefulness.
Maybe we should redirect the conversation to how wasteful it is to fly a commercial 50 seat plane 100 miles than to use HsR. Heck there aren't even any regularly scheduled flights from Paris to Brusells any more.
__________________

yankeesfan1000 liked this post
b4z no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #3920
Don31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 94
Likes (Received): 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4z View Post
Americans have somehow gotten stuck on coast to coast HSR. That is secondary or tertiary to is usefulness.
Maybe we should redirect the conversation to how wasteful it is to fly a commercial 50 seat plane 100 miles than to use HsR. Heck there aren't even any regularly scheduled flights from Paris to Brusells any more.
Agreed. Look at the airline's steadily decreasing share of the NYC to Boston and the NYC to Washington markets. Commercial flight only makes sense for trips of 1,000 miles or more.
Don31 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium