daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 23rd, 2013, 04:35 AM   #3961
1772
Registered User
 
1772's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,573
Likes (Received): 1439

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
I personally hate Ayn Rand.
Yeah, let's all be dependent on the state. Crush individualism. Go State! Give me benefits!
Take my rights, as long as I get food stamps!
__________________

Silver Swordsman, krnboy1009 liked this post
1772 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 23rd, 2013, 05:58 AM   #3962
Don31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 94
Likes (Received): 9

Oh Christ, here we go.....
__________________
Don31 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:10 AM   #3963
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don31 View Post
Join the club. Well, I don't know about HATE, I never met the woman, but I do have an intense dislike of her philosophies.
I would normally agree that one's personal philosophies are personal philosophies, but when that strain of philosophy becomes something public (like in a book), or when people start acting on it, then yes, I do hate the person who started it.

We DO hate Adolf Hitler for starting the Holocaust; which was, just a "personal philosophy", isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Yeah, let's all be dependent on the state. Crush individualism. Go State! Give me benefits!
Take my rights, as long as I get food stamps!
I like your sarcasm.

I understand the ideology of rugged individualism and self-sufficiency, and I agree that it is a very romantic way of life. What bugs me about Ayn Rand and her followers is the lack of gratitude. I mean, sure, one does have a right to keep what he/she earns, but I disagree that one earned all of it by oneself. What about the schools the government helped set up, the electric grid it produces, the roads that we drive on?
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here

CNB30 liked this post
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:33 AM   #3964
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Alright, well the more important point remains; there isn't any train service which currently hits 300mph, and the only one that will in the forseeable future is the maglev Chuo Shinkansen, of which I'm sure you're aware. Thus, talking about a 300mph service from anywhere to anywhere else won't mean anything until the late 2020's.
I agree, your point stands, I was just being pedantic (as always).
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 02:09 PM   #3965
Smooth Indian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 241

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Nope, they do not. They're working on one that will reach that speed maximally, but you can bet that it won't run at that speed in operation. Traditional high speed trains stop being energy and thus cost-efficient after about 400km/h or 250mph, at least as far as I've heard.
I think they stop being cost effective because of the wear and tear 400 kmph speeds impose on the tracks. I am not sure of the energy consumption vis-a-vis that of airplanes. If I remember correctly China briefly try to run 400 kmph trains but curtailed them after some time. But then the Chinese airline operators were complaining that HSR was eating into their revenues in a major way.
Smooth Indian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 03:02 PM   #3966
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21236

At very high speed (>250km/h), most wear and tear is aerodynamic, I think. Of course, displacing air at low altitudes puts much more pressure on a vehicle like a train than displacing thin air at 11.000m.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 03:14 PM   #3967
SamuraiBlue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Likes (Received): 195

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
At very high speed (>250km/h), most wear and tear is aerodynamic, I think. Of course, displacing air at low altitudes puts much more pressure on a vehicle like a train than displacing thin air at 11.000m.
Auhhh, the scrapping of steel wheels on steel rail as well as steel pantographs on copper overhead wires has very little to do with aerodynamics unless of course you factor in down force to keep the train on the tracks which would mean more friction on the wheels and rail.
SamuraiBlue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 03:27 PM   #3968
1772
Registered User
 
1772's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,573
Likes (Received): 1439

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
I like your sarcasm.

I understand the ideology of rugged individualism and self-sufficiency, and I agree that it is a very romantic way of life. What bugs me about Ayn Rand and her followers is the lack of gratitude. I mean, sure, one does have a right to keep what he/she earns, but I disagree that one earned all of it by oneself. What about the schools the government helped set up, the electric grid it produces, the roads that we drive on?
Nopt going to go off-topic in this thread but if someone should be grateful it's the government that get's the hard-earned money of the people as taxes.
Don't get me wrong, of course there is a need for government and a system, but the state should be grateful and always try to minimize it's expenses.

Think more Calvin Coolidge than Barack Obama.
1772 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:59 PM   #3969
skyscraperhighrise
Registered User
 
skyscraperhighrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 1,267
Likes (Received): 1084

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Nopt going to go off-topic in this thread but if someone should be grateful it's the government that get's the hard-earned money of the people as taxes.
Don't get me wrong, of course there is a need for government and a system, but the state should be grateful and always try to minimize it's expenses.

Think more Calvin Coolidge than Barack Obama.
I Think more FDR than those two.
__________________
Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

#standwithrand

R.I.P. QuantumX, you will never be forgotten.
skyscraperhighrise no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 05:26 AM   #3970
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Nopt going to go off-topic in this thread but if someone should be grateful it's the government that get's the hard-earned money of the people as taxes.
Don't get me wrong, of course there is a need for government and a system, but the state should be grateful and always try to minimize it's expenses.

Think more Calvin Coolidge than Barack Obama.
Let's put it this way--should a parent be "grateful" that a child is doing chores, or should the child be grateful to his/her parents for putting food on the table and a roof over their heads?

The only time that a government is "indebted" to its constituents is when it fails to properly address their needs--which it absolves by spending it back.

I agree that the government should be more careful with how it spends taxpayer income, but that is no excuse to say that the government is "indebted" to the taxpayer. Unlike private income, which will stay in the pockets of whoever earns the money, money flowing into the public sector will be used in a way that benefits the public.

Neither should the government shy away from "expenses" in critical investments. In fact, America is already suffering from this in the form of a dilapidated passenger rail network (congestion and smog).
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 06:12 PM   #3971
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

...Can we please not do this here?
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #3972
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
...Can we please not do this here?
You mean, we should be discussing HSR...why would we ever want to do that?

phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #3973
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 452

To paraphrase Gertrude Stein- "the problem when you discuss HSR in the USA, is there is no there, there"- thus the common devolvement into realms political.
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #3974
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,995
Likes (Received): 1031

Yes, I'm aware, but if you ask me, we've simply got four ideological groups of people in this country, all of whom disagree with one another on one level or another. The far left and far right, which is to say basically not at all the Democrats and the more extreme and honest Republicans, disagree fundamentally and axiomatically, and that won't change. The Democrats and most of the Republicans, by contrast, have no idea what they're talking about and nothing helpful to say.

So, we've got two groups of cognitive people who simply think each other are wrong, and then a bunch of people who get in the way of anything constructive happening in either the left or right direction. That's why it's pointless to talk about American politics, particularly on something so clearly one-sided as high speed rail; if all we ever did was talk about the socio-political and economic benefits of it, we'd never get to actually doing it or giving up altogether. And so we haven't; we've just been arguing past each other for at least three decades, and I don't wanna do it anymore.
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #3975
Fan Railer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 658
Likes (Received): 566

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Yes, I'm aware, but if you ask me, we've simply got four ideological groups of people in this country, all of whom disagree with one another on one level or another. The far left and far right, which is to say basically not at all the Democrats and the more extreme and honest Republicans, disagree fundamentally and axiomatically, and that won't change. The Democrats and most of the Republicans, by contrast, have no idea what they're talking about and nothing helpful to say.

So, we've got two groups of cognitive people who simply think each other are wrong, and then a bunch of people who get in the way of anything constructive happening in either the left or right direction. That's why it's pointless to talk about American politics, particularly on something so clearly one-sided as high speed rail; if all we ever did was talk about the socio-political and economic benefits of it, we'd never get to actually doing it or giving up altogether. And so we haven't; we've just been arguing past each other for at least three decades, and I don't wanna do it anymore.
Completely true statement. To be honest, the only way that we're going to see any resolution on this HSR issue come to fruition is for it to actually be implemented, and then to judge based on the long term outcome and results. But most of the major parties in this country would rather spend countless years debating the possibilities and/or the potential pitfalls of such a system rather than letting the system prove or disprove itself in the name of "saving taxpayer's dollars." I would argue that given the continuing oil conflict, the money that each individual is spending on exorbitant gas prices over the next several decades will MORE than pay for the cost of HSR implementation over that same time period. But of course, it's all about the freedom of selfish individual spending rather than collective spending for the greater good. Thus is today's warped American Dream. The collective selfishness of our species will forever prevent most from seeing this.
Fan Railer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 04:43 AM   #3976
CNB30
centralnatbankbuildingrva
 
CNB30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New York (Brooklyn)/Richmond/Philadelphia
Posts: 2,575
Likes (Received): 805

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
To paraphrase Gertrude Stein- "the problem when you discuss HSR in the USA, is there is no there, there"- thus the common devolvement into realms political.
Hopefully we can say this in a few years when the republican impediments get out of the way of the California HSR
__________________
High speed rail=real energy independence!

A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It’s where the rich use public transportation

Feel The Bern #2016
CNB30 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #3977
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Hopefully we can say this in a few years when the republican impediments get out of the way of the California HSR
Well, they wouldn't be able to "sell" that stuff if there was no one who would buy it. Unfortunately, there are people who think they can solve things without spending money. Doesn't work that way...
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #3978
Fan Railer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 658
Likes (Received): 566

Perhaps this should spark up some discussion:
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/...tml?channel=54
Quote:
A triad of U.S. HSR interests makes its move, upsetting some preconceived conventional wisdom involving the nation’s passenger rail outlook.
Caught by relative surprise, many rail advocates and industry observers tried hard to appear blasé at the news, formally announced Jan. 17, that Amtrak and the state of California would combine forces to order next-generation high speed rail rolling stock.

It’s a potentially substantial order for one of nine international equipment suppliers of HSR gear, according to Federal Railroad Administrator Joseph Szabo, even as it strengthens the case for U.S. high speed rail on (eventually) a national scale, not just a series of remote, regional pockets.

Amtrak and the California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) have issued a Request for Information (RFI) for 62 HSR trainsets, with 32 envisioned for Amtrak’s venerable Northeast Corridor, and 27 for the Golden State’s nascent intrastate HSR network, set to begin initial construction in the Central Valley this spring.

A Request for Proposal could be issued by this September, with an order placed during 2014, according to Amtrak.

The move prompted widespread speculation over its origins. Industry media, including Trains magazine (which broke the story) and Railway Age, offered after-the-fact analysis and commentary. FRA’s Szabo, in an interview with Railway Age, didn’t dismiss such analysis, but stated emphatically that one player in the arranged marriage had been overlooked: the FRA itself.

“There’s a missed story here; many in the industry didn’t realize where this industry is at already regarding lightweight equipment,” Szabo said. Contrary to widespread public perception, “The FRA wasn’t pressured or swayed to do this; we brought [the two HSR parties] together, because we already had made the change almost a year ago … to shoot for the highest level of standardization.

“It was an evolution FRA was making before I came here four years ago, but it’s certainly one I’ve made a priority. We were there over a year ago; perhaps we didn’t tell the story well,” Szabo observed........

......And, to the delight (expressed or veiled) of perennial critics of FRA, Amtrak, and U.S. high speed rail efforts in general, more of the focus will be on crash avoidance. That’s been incorporated into the Engineering Task Force 2 (ETF2) standards developed by industry participants and the FRA, outlining safety approaches for trains operating between 125 mph and 220 mph. “We allow the highest level of flexibility to achieve the best safety outcome; the outcome is the goal,” Szabo stresses. “We’re not looking to build tanks the way we did 15 years ago.”

Szabo notes neither Amtrak or California can just “pick up a European high speed rail equipment model” for off-the-shelf use. “But the platform will be the same” with only minor modifications needed, he says. The Request for Information made last month reflects that: “We chose to go that approach, and issue the letter … and then start the laborious project of doing the regulatory” work. “Again, you [the media] missed it and we didn‘t do a good job telling you about it.”........

.......Szabo also disputed statements from industry pundits critical of the Obama Administration—and by extension, the FRA—for its “diffuse” approach in advancing high-performance passenger rail in numerous locations, as opposed to concentrating in just one or two ideal spots. (Szabo, however, accepts the differentiation of high speed rail [HSR] and higher-speed rail [HrSR] as “a useful distinction.”)

“We’re required to play the cards that we’re dealt,” he said. “The requirements Congress gave us through the Recovery Act required us to fund projects ready to go, and that were able to meet statutory deadlines.” Funds could go only to those states or entities (such as Amtrak) that chose to reply and those who qualified. “There was no possibility to strictly fund a single project or two,” he said........

..........Moreover, the seemingly scattered and separate projects at present offer the potential for “interconnectivity,” Szabo said. “It has always envisioned that this is a system” involving three tiers of service: true HSR at up to 220 mph, as per California’s statewide plan; HrSR, exemplified by ongoing work on the Chicago-St. Louis and Chicago-Detroit routes; and feeder routes, bumping emerging lines “such as in Maine and Vermont” up to 79 mph.

Szabo sees the multi-tiered approach not as diffuse, but instead a flexible way to advance passenger rail in ways meaningful to actual riders. “An analogy is the road network,” he says. “The Interstate highways don’t work all by themselves; they interconnect with federal roads, state roads, county roads, local roads. In much the same way, we need a comprehensive passenger rail network” using more than one performance measure.........
Fan Railer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #3979
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
Perhaps this should spark up some discussion:
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/...tml?channel=54
YES
YES
YES

FINA-F**KING-LY THE FRA GETS SOME SENSE.

THIS WAS SO NEEDED

CAPS FOR EXCITEMENT
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2013, 05:03 AM   #3980
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
YES
YES
YES

FINA-F**KING-LY THE FRA GETS SOME SENSE.

THIS WAS SO NEEDED

CAPS FOR EXCITEMENT
I agree, the absurd over-building equipment design standards imposed by the FRA on common-carrier passenger operators was a major impediment to restoring and upgrading service in places where it makes sense.

Next up, and this will take a lot of time and effort to achieve, is to remove the infrastructure ownership yoke that has been a drag on the North American railroad biz since the beginning of railroading.

Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium