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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 14th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #4201
Silly_Walks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
XPressWest want to operate "HSR-style" EMU's in its lines? Why don't use gas-turbine trainsets or high-speed diesel-electric multiple-unit as Bombardier Voyager?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_220
Because diesel is more expensive to operate, and will get even more expensive. The US has been trying to get off of foreign oil for decades.
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Old July 14th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #4202
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Ah, I understood!

I saw in XpressWest website that this HSR line will not use the current UP line between Bastrow and Las Vegas... But, I believe this project could be better if the trains had finished his travels in L.A. Union Station in this first stage (line to Las Vegas). This story to put the station far away from the L.A. Downtown would not attract many passengers...
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Old July 15th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #4203
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I was just thinking, for California and Los Angeles especially, they should focus on a local high speed(124mph/200km/h) rail network so people can get around without having to do 2 hour commutes. Let the airlines handle long distance travel for the time being, get people moving around the cities on rail faster. If people could get from San Bernadino to downtown Los Angeles in 20-30 minutes, Santa Ana to downtown LA in 10-15 min, that would do wonders for the area.

I'm dreaming but with the example of Local High Speed rail I see going on in China, it would be nice to have it in our sprawled out cities.
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Old July 15th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #4204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I was just thinking, for California and Los Angeles especially, they should focus on a local high speed(124mph/200km/h) rail network so people can get around without having to do 2 hour commutes. Let the airlines handle long distance travel for the time being, get people moving around the cities on rail faster. If people could get from San Bernadino to downtown Los Angeles in 20-30 minutes, Santa Ana to downtown LA in 10-15 min, that would do wonders for the area.

I'm dreaming but with the example of Local High Speed rail I see going on in China, it would be nice to have it in our sprawled out cities.
The problem is that there is geology. The costs for building a high speed tunnel over a very seismically active mountain ridge around LA Basin will be high, reducing the tunnel specs to 120mph wouldn't do much to reduce that cost.

Then, if you build a slightly cheaper tunnel to serve Riverside, San Bernardino, Palmdale, or even Palm Springs (!), you are going to spend a lot of money, and there will be a huge risk that NIMBYs or political officials decide to dumb down the system on the approaches to LA (from San Diego, Central Valley or LV), as they are trying to do on the Caltrans corridor on the Bay Area.

Then you would end up with a system that would be further "watered down" in other sectors, to the point even a 300mpg hypothetical commercial speed train on the central valley wouldn't make up for time lost elsewhere, then you'd take 4 hours, instead of 2h to travel between both central stations in SF and LA.
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Old July 15th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #4205
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Depends on the cost of electrifying the line, does diesel cost that much more so it justifies that cost? I mean it's not like they are going to run the trains as frequently as other HSR systems in the world.
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Old July 15th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #4206
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Depends on the cost of electrifying the line, does diesel cost that much more so it justifies that cost? I mean it's not like they are going to run the trains as frequently as other HSR systems in the world.
You expect diesel to get cheaper in the future? I expect it to get more expensive. Diesel will never win in long-term cost calculations.
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Old July 15th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #4207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I was just thinking, for California and Los Angeles especially, they should focus on a local high speed(124mph/200km/h) rail network so people can get around without having to do 2 hour commutes. Let the airlines handle long distance travel for the time being, get people moving around the cities on rail faster. If people could get from San Bernadino to downtown Los Angeles in 20-30 minutes, Santa Ana to downtown LA in 10-15 min, that would do wonders for the area.

I'm dreaming but with the example of Local High Speed rail I see going on in China, it would be nice to have it in our sprawled out cities.
California has no public transport at all. So the kind of train connection you are suggesting makes no sense.

CAHSR is design mainly to move passengers between crowded cities, and with an average distance of 400km (that is the perfect case), in order to fight against flight passengers. What you are thinking about is another kind of rails connection (like Madrid system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercan%C3%ADas_Madrid)
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Old July 16th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #4208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuartango View Post

California has no public transport at all. So the kind of train connection you are suggesting makes no sense.

CAHSR is design mainly to move passengers between crowded cities, and with an average distance of 400km (that is the perfect case), in order to fight against flight passengers. What you are thinking about is another kind of rails connection (like Madrid system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercan%C3%ADas_Madrid)
Oh yes, there is no public transit at all. None. :/
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Old July 16th, 2013, 04:46 AM   #4209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuartango View Post
California has no public transport at all. So the kind of train connection you are suggesting makes no sense.
Uhm, last time I checked several major California cities had public transit including subways, light rail, commuter rail, etc.

Los Angeles - Metro Rail (Los Angeles County)
Los Angeles - Metrolink
San Francisco - BART
San Francisco - MUNI Metro
San Francisco - Caltrain
San Jose - VTA Light Rail
San Diego - San Diego Trolley
San Diego - The Coaster
Sacramento - Light Rail
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Old July 16th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #4210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuartango View Post
California has no public transport at all. So the kind of train connection you are suggesting makes no sense.

CAHSR is design mainly to move passengers between crowded cities, and with an average distance of 400km (that is the perfect case), in order to fight against flight passengers. What you are thinking about is another kind of rails connection (like Madrid system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercan%C3%ADas_Madrid)
If you don't live in the States, don't talk about the States as if you do. You risk looking like a fool.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 11:05 AM   #4211
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Since US is a most developed country, people prefer to travel in their luxury brand cars, but still it's Government duty to concentrate rail network and help other people who can't afford luxury cars.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #4212
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Public transport in LA is very residual, only 10% of workers use it daily, that is very poor. In most European cities percentege is between 35% and more than 60%.

That is why FM 2258 makes no sense.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #4213
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Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
If you don't live in the States, don't talk about the States as if you do. You risk looking like a fool.
I have live there for almost half a year, so I know what I am taking about
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Old July 16th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #4214
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Originally Posted by synodbio View Post
Since US is a most developed country, people prefer to travel in their luxury brand cars, but still it's Government duty to concentrate rail network and help other people who can't afford luxury cars.
There are countries with higher GDP per capita than the US and have several times more public transport usage.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #4215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Depends on the cost of electrifying the line, does diesel cost that much more so it justifies that cost? I mean it's not like they are going to run the trains as frequently as other HSR systems in the world.
Speeds in excess of 140 mph require serious power to be reached in an acceptable amount of time. Drag increases exponentially with speed.

An 8 car diesel powered 186 mph train would need something in the order of 8800 kW/12000 hp, which will probably be unfeasible because of the large engines; experiments with turbine driven trains haven't been that succesfull either (unreliable and unefficient). Electric is really the way to go when you want go fast.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 02:44 PM   #4216
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Experiments with turbines were in fact successful... The problem was in the fuel bills - era of turbines was due to start just before oil crisis, but the later kinda "aborted" it - W/hp from NG, coal and uranium became way cheaper than oil ones.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #4217
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we have this diesel train in algeria the speed of this train can reach 200km/h



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Old July 16th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #4218
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I also think safety concerns would rule out passenger trains going fast under long tunnels. It makes ventilation much more difficult, and increase fire hazards.

I don't know of any > 15km tunnels that carry passenger trains with diesel-pulled consists in any developed country.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #4219
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Well, it may be not due their development, but rather due to fact, that most of developed countries are nett-importers of liquid fuels.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #4220
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Well, it may be not due their development, but rather due to fact, that most of developed countries are nett-importers of liquid fuels.
It is about fire safety and ventilation issues. This has plagued tunnels since the steam era, but diesel engines are worse for operation in tunnels.
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