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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 24th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #4381
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I feel if the government is going to "waste" money on something, it should be something that will help communities get around more efficiently. High speed rail will benefit everyone, it will get more people off the roads, less people in the airport and it's much safer than driving.

Our government wastes so much money flying military planes around for useless exercises and it's my tax money. I'd rather see it go to HSR for everyone rather than burning oil for no good reason.

Highways are being expanded all over the country yet we cannot use the concrete to build rail? I find it pathetic since the right of way for rail is much less than expanding a highway.
HSR will not benefit anyone, just like the wars, it will raise the national debt, the best solution, is to cut all federal spending and reduce the size and scope of our government.

and the free market should decide what's best for HSR, not the government, because it is not the solution, it is the problem.

see the article.
http://www.aei.org/article/economics...axpayer-money/
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Old November 25th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #4382
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skyscraperhighrise, you are acting under assumption that cost of doing nothing is zero...
It's not. The prices of liquid fuels are growing over last decade, and according to our understanding, they will continue doing so in future. The free market has a great deal of inertia, so by the time the financial advantages of HSR would would be to plain obvious, it would be already late, and the high price of oil would already devour economic activity and degrade the quality of living. Those countries, who would meet that moment with already deployed and functional HSR (and many other improvements, like gtl, ctl plants, mass transit in cities, etc.) are more likely to retain standards of living and economical activity.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #4383
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No more roads? No more street lights?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #4384
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and the free market should decide what's best for HSR, not the government, because it is not the solution, it is the problem.
I agree, but one of the big problems is that there is no free market in transportation. We need to end the massive subsides and taxpayer dollars given to airports as well as privatising (or at least making states responsible) for the interstate system. Then, once there is a true free market and parity between all forms of transportation we might see private investment in rail.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #4385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
and the free market should decide what's best for HSR, not the government, because it is not the solution, it is the problem.
The free market system already decided what's best for HSR. It decided that it's not profitable, and focused on developing a car culture. Now that you are all so car dependent, they can raise the price of oil and rip you off as much as they want cause you have no other option. All the while, Europe, Japan, even China now, are enjoying the fruits of their investments in HSR and renewable energy. Same goes for subways, metro rail and so on. The point of public transportation isn't to be profitable. It's to make it cheaper and easier for people to get around so the whole market system would be more efficient.

Just like roads weren't meant to be profitable, public transportation is almost never going to be a huge profit center. That's what the government is for - investing in the infrastructure that isn't profitable for private companies, but BY investing in that infrastructure, it helps those companies do business.

Look at the Interstate system. Look at the freight railway system. Airports, seaports. Most of those aren't profitable AT ALL. On the contrary, they're chugging up huge amounts of subsidies. But do you think USA would be able to function without those? Nope.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #4386
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fskobic, conspiracy theories about oil companies artificially driving prices up are a bit weird... The idea that current switch from easy to drill and extract old exhausted sources to new, expensive (both in energetic and financial terms) makes much more sense.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #4387
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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
fskobic, conspiracy theories about oil companies artificially driving prices up are a bit weird... The idea that current switch from easy to drill and extract old exhausted sources to new, expensive (both in energetic and financial terms) makes much more sense.
I'm not talking about conspiracy theories. Where'd you get that idea? I'm talking about simple supply and demand, number of oil fields (along with those is politically unstable war zones), how (un)adaptable we are to rising oil prices, and huge oil companies hoping to turn a profit. No conspiracy needed, it's just the way capitalism works.

Harvesting renewable energy is becoming more and more efficient, along with renewable energy technologies becoming cheaper and cheaper as they slowly enter mass production.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 06:32 PM   #4388
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Wellm, in
Quote:
they can raise the price of oil and rip you off as much as they want cause you have no other option
bit, but putting it the last post way - it's more correct.
Also, renewable energy have several principal limitations, but this is definitely off-top...
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Old November 26th, 2013, 12:00 AM   #4389
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Reports are coming in that Judge Kenny has decided to block CHSRA from selling its bonds...
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Old November 26th, 2013, 12:45 AM   #4390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
Wellm, in (this) bit, but putting it the last post way - it's more correct.
Also, renewable energy have several principal limitations, but this is definitely off-top...
It's an oligopoly. There doesn't necessarily need to be a conspiracy involved. Although, in the case of oil companies, it has been known that they rigged prices throughout the 20th century. In that case, it's not a conspiracy THEORY, it's just a conspiracy.

Like I said, renewable energy harvesting is becoming more and more efficient, especially with solar power. And it doesn't fluctuate as much as oil prices do.

Sorry for going off topic.

HSR is a really cool thing, and big public projects are very helpful in a time of recession. It gets things going.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 02:50 AM   #4391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
If we the government and the taxpayers out of this, it would be better, thank god rick scott killed the taxpayer HSR in my state for good reason, we cannot afford it.
thank god a private enterprise like All aboard florida and FEC has taken it's place and it's a free market.
I must admit, while I hope government funded Amtrak can use HSR, I have to agree that outside of Miami, starting HSR in florida while leaving the Northeast, California, Chicago, and Seattle- Vancouver area High speed rail-less would be a terrible Idea. I agree, start off high speed rail between the urban centers where It will be most profitable.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 02:51 AM   #4392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
I agree, but one of the big problems is that there is no free market in transportation. We need to end the massive subsides and taxpayer dollars given to airports as well as privatising (or at least making states responsible) for the interstate system. Then, once there is a true free market and parity between all forms of transportation we might see private investment in rail.
Thank you, we also need to get the government out of it as well.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 02:52 AM   #4393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
I must admit, while I hope government funded Amtrak can use HSR, I have to agree that outside of Miami, starting HSR in florida while leaving the Northeast, California, Chicago, and Seattle- Vancouver area High speed rail-less would be a terrible Idea. I agree, start off high speed rail between the urban centers where It will be most profitable.
at least thank god in my state, taxpayers won't have to pay a thing with AAF aka all aboard florida.
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Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #4394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
HSR will not benefit anyone...
Statements like this are either made out of sheer ignorance, or just simple laziness.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #4395
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Knowing that, you should know better than to respond to them.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 06:53 PM   #4396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
HSR will not benefit anyone, just like the wars, it will raise the national debt, the best solution, is to cut all federal spending and reduce the size and scope of our government.

and the free market should decide what's best for HSR, not the government, because it is not the solution, it is the problem.

see the article.
http://www.aei.org/article/economics...axpayer-money/
It would benefit me. Every time I drive to Houston, Dallas or San Antonio I wish I was going 217mph vs 75-90mph I like to cruise at. Flying would be nice but it's too damn expensive. Maybe if a few $$$ of our ticket goes to oil companies then we can get this show on the road.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:31 AM   #4397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
skyscraperhighrise, you are acting under assumption that cost of doing nothing is zero...
It's not. The prices of liquid fuels are growing over last decade, and according to our understanding, they will continue doing so in future. The free market has a great deal of inertia, so by the time the financial advantages of HSR would would be to plain obvious, it would be already late, and the high price of oil would already devour economic activity and degrade the quality of living. Those countries, who would meet that moment with already deployed and functional HSR (and many other improvements, like gtl, ctl plants, mass transit in cities, etc.) are more likely to retain standards of living and economical activity.
the reason why gasoline and other prices going up is because of the federal reserve printing money out of nothing, we need to get rid of that cancer.
__________________
Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

#standwithrand

R.I.P. QuantumX, you will never be forgotten.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:33 AM   #4398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
It would benefit me. Every time I drive to Houston, Dallas or San Antonio I wish I was going 217mph vs 75-90mph I like to cruise at. Flying would be nice but it's too damn expensive. Maybe if a few $$$ of our ticket goes to oil companies then we can get this show on the road.
that will happen if we get the government out of the way, HSR will lose money just like amtrak did all this time.
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Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

#standwithrand

R.I.P. QuantumX, you will never be forgotten.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:58 AM   #4399
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I hate to be off topic on my first post on these forums, but do any of you know of any schools with comparable Railroad engineering programs other then the Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign? I want to work on projects across america and maybe a little abroad as well. I love there program, but it's just the location of the campus, coupled with other things. (I live in the Northeast by the way). Anyway, have been spectating these forums for a while and are glad to finally join in! Hope you guys can help or point to a forum where this question should be asked.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 08:03 AM   #4400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
the reason why gasoline and other prices going up is because of the federal reserve printing money out of nothing, we need to get rid of that cancer.
Nope, real prices (e.g. inflation corrected) of gasoline are growing too. And should it bee fault of federal reserve only, oil priced should grow remarkably faster in USD than in other currencies, but that isn't happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cr...since_1861.png

What is actually happening - we are moving from cheap (energetically, and thus financially) to expensive one. That's it. There is no magical button to make liquid fuels cheap as back in late 80s.
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