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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
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Old February 12th, 2014, 02:42 AM   #4601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
For the area which needs HSR the least
Jesus, it's like you people think we live in Wyoming or Montana or something...
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Old February 12th, 2014, 04:09 AM   #4602
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Jesus, it's like you people think we live in Wyoming or Montana or something...
Exactly! There are 80 million people in the South (well in the US Census definition of the South)
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Old February 12th, 2014, 05:49 AM   #4603
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Well, I don't have any first-hand experience with the South, but my brother, who used to live in Atlanta and Savannah, said that they was a lot like some of the charming cities of New England, where our family is from, e.g. Boston or Portsmouth. Obviously, Austin, Miami, and New Orleans similarly have their own charm. It's mostly social differences that lend the South its "uncivilized" flavor, from the non-Southern perspective.

More on topic re: high-speed rail. That system of transportation works best in areas where public transit is a fairly popular way to get around, and, as far as I know, transit usage is lower than every region of the country save the sparsely-populated areas of the West. If piles of money were to flood in from nowhere for HSR, the South would have to come 2nd to last in line for funding in all but the densest areas (i.e., the Texas Triangle and southern Florida). From my biased, New Hampshire and Ohio perspective.
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Old February 12th, 2014, 07:06 AM   #4604
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Ok, maybe extending the NEC through Richmond, Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta might be a good idea
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Old February 12th, 2014, 04:37 PM   #4605
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Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Ok, maybe extending the NEC through Richmond, Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta might be a good idea
If the overwhelming goal is to: move people out of cars, move people out of planes, and induce travel, then I think one has to concede connecting The Gulf Coast (Texas [Triangle] and New Orleans) and the "Piedmont Region", isn't farfetched.

Especially as it will serve as a launch-pad for regional systems (i.e. intra-State systems) with HSR as the backbone. We can't really rely on air travel for our travel needs nor should we have to get in a car to drive less than 300 mi. to get to our destination.

Now, if we're talking priorities, I'll concede that Chicagoland and the NEC can go first, but if we're simply saying we deserve nothing, that's BS.
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Old February 12th, 2014, 09:02 PM   #4606
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Ok, maybe extending the NEC through Richmond, Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta might be a good idea
Definitely agree on this one.
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Old February 12th, 2014, 10:04 PM   #4607
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Quote:
Details emerge on blending Caltrain with future high-speed rail
By Laura Dudnick

By 2019, Peninsula residents will see a much more efficient, quieter and environmentally conscious Caltrain system. That’s what Ben Tripousis, Northern California regional director for the California High-Speed Rail Authority, told local business owners at the Chamber of Commerce Public Policy Forum on Tuesday.

Tripousis highlighted the impact of introducing high-speed rail transportation in California, and revealed what the Peninsula can expect when the system blends with Caltrain’s route from San Jose to San Francisco.

The agencies will ultimately run on two tracks through the Peninsula, with Caltrain operating six commuter trains per hour on its new electric system and the High-Speed Rail Authority running four trains per hour.

Four locations on the Peninsula are being analyzed for passing tracks — two in the mid-Peninsula, one near San Francisco and the fourth near San Jose, Tripousis said.

There will be no elevated tracks on the Peninsula as part of blended system, according to Tripousis.

Caltrain is receiving upgrades as part of its modernization program, a $1.5 billion project paid for in part by the rail authority as well as with local, regional and federal dollars.

Caltrain has started working on its federally mandated advanced signal system, slated to be complete by 2015. It will allow for future increases in ridership.

The trains will also be able to start and stop more quickly, allowing them to run more closely together.

Additionally, electric trains will be much better for the environment than Caltrain’s current diesel system, according to agency officials . . . .

Caltrain’s makeover will happen before the bullet trains come to the Peninsula, but having a modern rail system will make it easier for the High-Speed Rail Authority to implement its own trains when the time comes.

Construction on the electrification of the tracks is slated to last three to four years, with the new rail system expected to begin operations in 2019.

High-speed rail officials expect to break ground on construction in Fresno sometime this year, Tripousis said. By 2029, the high-speed trains are anticipated to run from San Francisco to Los Angeles in less than three hours.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancis...nt?oid=2702828
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Old February 12th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #4608
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Caltrain has started working on its federally mandated advanced signal system
Is it related to ETCS like China has CTCS?
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Old February 12th, 2014, 11:31 PM   #4609
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Is it related to ETCS like China has CTCS?
They are referring to so-called Positive Train Control.

The link addresses the technical issues and the relationship to ETCS. I don't pretend to really understand it.
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Old February 13th, 2014, 09:22 AM   #4610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Highways can cope with 5% grades, high speed rail, ideally, with no more than 2% grades
This page : http://florent.brisou.pagesperso-orange.fr/LGV-PSE.htm
shows the profile of the french LGV between Paris and Lyon. You can
see there that most of the length of the line uses grades above 2%,
and going as far as 3,5% in several places.

And restarting from a full stop in those grades has been successfully tested
before the LGV was commissionned, with a train with 33% of its traction
(thus 2 bogies out of 6) out of service.

Therefore, given that the ICE3 has distributed traction, I do not believe that
it would not be able to restart from a full stop on a 4% grade. What I do
remember is that the Thalys trains have not been allowed to use that line,
just because, with 25% (thus one bogie) of traction out of service, they
would not be able to restart. I don't think DB could prevent another train to
use the LGV Köln-Frankfurt on those grounds if their own trains couldn't meet
the same constraints either.

But I agree that without further research, 5% is off limits. Not only for
traction, but for brakings aspects too.

By the way, on the french LGVs, there was (I think it's lifted now) initially a
220 km/h speed limit on the grade summits because SNCF feared that the
vertical curves were too sharp and so could lead to trains "taking off" at max
speed... Contrary to popular belief, it was not because of power shortage
that they slowed down at the top of the grades.
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Old February 13th, 2014, 09:26 AM   #4611
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There are 2 main types of in cab signalling in the US. Both of them are overlays of existing signalling system with additional info relayed to the train via radio. In the wikipedia articles, it doesn't state whether the aerial component uses GSM-R or not.

To the best of my knowledge, they are not related to ETCS.
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Old February 13th, 2014, 05:53 PM   #4612
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Well, it seems, Caltrain is going to develop signalling from scratch, while CalHSR are going for ETCS...
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Old February 14th, 2014, 09:20 PM   #4613
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Old February 15th, 2014, 04:57 PM   #4614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMCYB View Post
A good list, but to make high speed rail work you need enough distance between stops to gain speed without all the slowing down and speeding up again. Places like New Braunfels, San Marcos, Round Rock and Temple will hopefully soon have commuter rail to connect to the high speed stops. I'd amend your list to this:

Terminus: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon
-Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas
-Laredo, Texas
-San Antonio, Texas (another rail line connects with Houston)
-Austin, Texas
-Georgetown, Texas
-Waco, Texas
Terminus: Dallas, Texas
Fair enough. In that case take out Georgetown and add in Temple. Williamson County is wealthier and more 'car amorous' than Temple-Killeen-Belton-Fort Hood which has a lot more carless military members who might enjoy a weekend in Austin or Dallas. Plus, that area has a lot more minorities who are more likely to use public transportation than the more right-wing Williamson County where any HSR will bring in a lot of opposition from Conservatives afraid of "undesirables" destroying their towns. Georgetown to Downtown Austin is also only a 30 minute drive.
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Old February 15th, 2014, 05:08 PM   #4615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musiccity View Post
My HSR map of the South. That just about covers all major cities.

The train from Memphis to New Orleans takes 8hours, 42 minutes. That's 522 minutes for a 395 mile trip. That's 45mph. Before we start dreaming about HSR, I think it would help to at least have trains going faster than cars.

And I'd rather see Oklahoma City connect with Tulsa and subsequently connecting with St. Louis to provide a HSR line from Dallas to Chicago. There's nothing up in Wichita and it would be a weird, low-populated terminus. I agree with most of the rest (though I'd link Hampton Roads with Richmond, not Raleigh)
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Last edited by Manitopiaaa; February 15th, 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2014, 05:16 PM   #4616
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I will say: one thing I've always disliked about Amtrak is how illogical some of their train routes are. There's no link between Little Rock and Memphis, there's Winnemuca and Elko but no Las Vegas. Want to go from El Paso to Albuquerque? You'll have to do El Paso-Los Angeles-Albuquerque because Amtrak can't make a north-south route in the Rockies linking Denver-Colorado Springs-Albuquerque-El Paso in a Front Range Corridor.

I mean really: Amtrak goes from Omaha to Chicago. What would a logical person pick as a route? Omaha-Des Moines-Cedar Rapids-Quad Cities-Chicago. Maybe swap out Quad Cities for Rockford? What does Amtrak do: Omaha-Creston-Ottumwa-Burlington-Galesburg. WTF?

Want to go Memphis to Saint Louis (a heavy Greyhound route)? You'll have to go from Memphis to Chicago and then go back South. The train goes from Dallas to Little Rock yet avoids Shreveport to take in Texarkana though the latter has, what, 4x less people?

There's no Bakersfield to LA (or at least to Palmdale-Lancaster)

Amtrak makes 12 stops in Northern empty Montana yet from Pittsburgh to Chicago doesn't have the common sense to stop in Canton or Akron or South Bend or Fort Wayne. That's 2,000,000 potentially people who lack access though the line goes right through their area!

The Chicago to Washington Southern Corridor stops in Ashland, KY but not nearby Huntington with 5x the population. Milwaukee to Minneapolis takes in Wisconsin Dells over direct access to Madison.

It's like Amtrak threw darts on the board. I know a lot has to do with existing freight tracks but my god, what horrible routes!

Link to map: http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-map..._route_map.png
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Last edited by Manitopiaaa; February 15th, 2014 at 05:31 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #4617
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Originally Posted by musiccity View Post
My HSR map of the South. That just about covers all major cities.

I don't think the southern Texas junction needs to be in San Antonio. Something like Temple or Austin would provide much greater connectivity and shorter distances with the Gulf Coast line.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #4618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
I will say: one thing I've always disliked about Amtrak is how illogical some of their train routes are. There's no link between Little Rock and Memphis, there's Winnemuca and Elko but no Las Vegas. Want to go from El Paso to Albuquerque? You'll have to do El Paso-Los Angeles-Albuquerque because Amtrak can't make a north-south route in the Rockies linking Denver-Colorado Springs-Albuquerque-El Paso in a Front Range Corridor.


I mean really: Amtrak goes from Omaha to Chicago. What would a logical person pick as a route? Omaha-Des Moines-Cedar Rapids-Quad Cities-Chicago. Maybe swap out Quad Cities for Rockford? What does Amtrak do: Omaha-Creston-Ottumwa-Burlington-Galesburg. WTF?
This is simple to answer: Amtrak operates long-distance train on train corridors. There isn't proper rail tracks on all your suggested routes


Quote:
There's no Bakersfield to LA (or at least to Palmdale-Lancaster)
The Tehachapi pass is bloated with freight trains and BNSF will not allow any passenger train there.
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Old February 18th, 2014, 09:41 AM   #4619
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This is simple to answer: Amtrak operates long-distance train on train corridors. There isn't proper rail tracks on all your suggested routes




The Tehachapi pass is bloated with freight trains and BNSF will not allow any passenger train there.
Of course. And that's the problem. That Amtrak continues to support that arrangement (freight-dominant right of way routes). Not only does it contribute to erratic schedules but creates weird routes that are costly. No wonder people ditch Amtrak when they can take Bolt or Megabus for 1/10 the price.
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Old February 18th, 2014, 02:02 PM   #4620
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Isn't it a chicken and the egg problem? Limited services will cause low demand, but low demand will cause limited services as a result. However the investment required to create new lines is such that nobody wants to take the risk.
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