daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 4th, 2014, 10:26 PM   #4641
CNB30
centralnatbankbuildingrva
 
CNB30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New York (Brooklyn)/Richmond/Philadelphia
Posts: 2,575
Likes (Received): 805

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post

It is already in use, because it's fitted to the Acela. As a rule of thumb with tilt speeds can increase by 10 to 15 percent. In your example the line itself should already be capable of speeds of 150 mph without tilt. The main problem is probably an insufficient safety system (no ACSES?) and the wrong overhead wire system (PRR used fixed tension instead of the now more common constant tension).
How expensive would that be to fix?
__________________
High speed rail=real energy independence!

A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It’s where the rich use public transportation

Feel The Bern #2016
CNB30 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 5th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #4642
Honolulu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 73
Likes (Received): 52

*sigh* will the US never learn? HSR HAS to be separated from the regular rail if you want to get anywhere near decent speeds. Time after time it has been shown that high speed rail in conjunction with freight or regular speed commuter rail NEVER works.

Of course the curve radii is also a big factor in speed, but first people in the US need to get it through their thick skulls that they need a separate line purely for HSR. How do you think the Shinkansen is so efficient, has never had any accidents ever despite being by far the most ridden HSR network (over 10 billion rides now)

Grade separation + dedicated HSR lines are the only way to go
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
Honolulu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2014, 11:22 AM   #4643
XAN_
Registered User
 
XAN_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,034
Likes (Received): 760

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honolulu View Post
*sigh* will the US never learn? HSR HAS to be separated from the regular rail if you want to get anywhere near decent speeds. Time after time it has been shown that high speed rail in conjunction with freight or regular speed commuter rail NEVER works.

Of course the curve radii is also a big factor in speed, but first people in the US need to get it through their thick skulls that they need a separate line purely for HSR. How do you think the Shinkansen is so efficient, has never had any accidents ever despite being by far the most ridden HSR network (over 10 billion rides now)

Grade separation + dedicated HSR lines are the only way to go
Well, Germany proved otherwise.
They of course have extensive and quick network even prior HSR, so it make sense to replicate this system only in places were there is already good service. In case in US - NE corridor only.
__________________
"I'm lost but still I know//There is another world"
-H. Kürsch, 1995
"Well, we all know there's no other side"
-H. Kürsch, 2002

Tower Dude liked this post
XAN_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2014, 08:36 AM   #4644
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,157
Likes (Received): 274

The NEC was build by PRR which in it's day was the yardstick every other roadroad wanted to measure up to. They ran 100 mph train in a time Germany was still stuck at 120 km/h on the majority of it's network. But unfortunately all Americans wanted to own a car and PRR went bankrupt. How much has changed. On large parts of the network speeds have dropped and services decimated. But a new dawn seems to be comming.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.

Tower Dude, Sopomon liked this post
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2014, 05:33 PM   #4645
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 452

There was a study done a few years back on the feasibility of new HSR projects in the U.S., by some consultant firm/thinktank (regretfully I can't remember the name of the organization nor the authors, otherwise I would post a link), it basically came to the conclusion that a true HSR service was incompatible with blended operation with existing commuter and conventional services, in the North American context- the operating practices of current commuter lines and conventional passenger rail are so antiquated that it would throw a wrench into any effort to run a punctual and safe high speed rail service on the same tracks. The fact is, American railways are stuck with 1950's operating practices (or even regressed), while other modern nations' passenger railways have long since surpassed the practices of those once excellent operators like the Pennsy.
__________________

aquaticko, Klausenburg liked this post
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #4646
Christopher125
Registered User
 
Christopher125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 754
Likes (Received): 176

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
When was this consultation? Because like I said: the N700/N700A, in service since 2007, has tilt and is capable of speeds up to at least 200 mph. In fact the tilt on the N700/N700A is enough to raise maximum speed in the Tokaido from 270 km/h to 285 km/h so even a small tilt of 2 degrees has a profound impact.
I'm aware of the N700, but it is designed to overcome the limited curve radius of a high speed line for which it only needs a very limited degree of tilt - which is achieved just by manipulating the air suspension IIRC. Tilting trains in Europe and on the NEC are designed to raise speeds on much sharper curves found on existing lines, for which a far greater degree of tilt needs to be possible.

Chris

Last edited by Christopher125; April 8th, 2014 at 02:05 AM.
Christopher125 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2014, 02:49 AM   #4647
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

Those Acela pictures are beautiful Nexis...I still wish it was a full high speed rail solution.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2014, 12:38 AM   #4648
CNB30
centralnatbankbuildingrva
 
CNB30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New York (Brooklyn)/Richmond/Philadelphia
Posts: 2,575
Likes (Received): 805

http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/04/07/...struction.html

Quote:
An elevated viaduct near Madera will likely be one of the first major pieces of tangible construction for California's proposed high-speed rail line, with work starting as early as next month.

Jim Laing, a project manager for Tutor Perini Corp., talked about the construction plan Monday afternoon at an industry forum for engineering students, professors and professionals at California State University, Fresno. Sylmar-based Tutor Perini, Zachry Construction of Texas and Pasadena-based Parsons Corp last summer won a contract for just under $1 billion from the California High-Speed Rail Authority to design and build the first 29-mile stretch between Madera and Fresno of a statewide bullet-train line.

"The first major construction activity we see is up on the Fresno River, a 2,000-foot-plus viaduct to go across the river, over Highway 145 and over Raymond Road," Laing said. "We're looking at doing some test pilings in May to prove the validity of our design of the columns and supports."

By this summer, Laing added, "we should be building that structure and really initiating construction."

The first construction section runs from about Avenue 17, near the BNSF freight railroad tracks at the eastern edge of Madera, south to American Avenue at the southern fringe of Fresno. In addition to the viaduct, the section includes a bridge over the San Joaquin River, elevated tracks at the north and south ends of Fresno; a tunnel under Belmont Avenue and Highway 180, and a dozen street or road over- and underpasses.

Other early portions of work will likely be in downtown Fresno, Laing said. Contractors are working with the city to plan relocation of utilities before construction can begin on new underpasses that will route Tulare and Ventura streets beneath the new high-speed rail tracks as well as the adjacent Union Pacific freight railroad tracks.

Under its contract with the state, the Tutor Perini/Zachry/Parsons team has until late 2017 to complete its work on the Madera-Fresno section

Monday's daylong forum and workshops were part of a professional series that Fresno State's engineering program is organizing for students, professors and industry experts, said Ram Nunna, dean of the university's Lyles College of Engineering.

Nunna said his goal is for Fresno State to play a leading role in research for America's fledgling high-speed rail industry and train graduates who have bullet-train expertise as the technology spreads across the nation.

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/04/07/...#storylink=cpy
__________________
High speed rail=real energy independence!

A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It’s where the rich use public transportation

Feel The Bern #2016

Tower Dude, phoenixboi08 liked this post
CNB30 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2014, 08:52 AM   #4649
rantanamo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,507
Likes (Received): 353

Welcome to Dallas-Fort Worth where Dallas is constantly politically maneuvered out of good things

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/c...as-houston.ece

Quote:
Public tie could slow plan for high-speed rail between Dallas, Houston

Ben Torres/Special Contributor
“The community has to embrace this, and then great things can happen,” said Tom Schieffer, senior adviser to the Texas Central Railway, with a model of a Japanese bullet train that would be used on the Dallas-Houston route.

Mitchell Schnurman

[email protected]

Published: 07 April 2014 08:31 PM

Updated: 08 April 2014 09:18 AM

If one bullet train is good, how about two?

A private plan for high-speed rail between Dallas and Houston is starting to gain some traction. Now local leaders want to piggyback on the project and add a leg from Dallas to Fort Worth, with a stop in Arlington.

The add-on would make a heavy lift heavier. Most bullet trains lose money, partly because politicians demand costly extensions.

But the temptation is understandable. The west side of the metro area lags badly on mass transit, especially rail. The bullet train offers a rare chance to catch up and link the region.

Commute times from Fort Worth to Dallas could be slashed to 19 minutes, and fans would be able to get to pro stadiums much easier.

“The community has to embrace this, and then great things can happen,” said Tom Schieffer, who helped create the Ballpark in Arlington (now Globe Life Park) and is senior adviser to the Texas Central Railway.

The catch is that the private, for-profit company won’t build the 30-mile spur. Unlike the longer line from Dallas to Houston, the numbers don’t work on a shorter line, because construction costs are much higher in urban areas.

That means government would have to find $2 billion for the project. It would lead the construction effort and be on the hook for cost overruns.

So put out the boondoggle alert, despite the best of intentions.
__________________

Tower Dude, Klausenburg, FM 2258 liked this post
rantanamo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2014, 08:17 AM   #4650
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



I say focus on Dallas to Houston, then Austin to San Antonio, then fill the rest in. Seems like a lot of people in government in the U.S. have no idea what the **** they're doing. Keep it simple! Personally I like the look of Siemens Velaro trains but I'll take anything that runs at 217 mph and faster.
__________________

Tower Dude liked this post
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2014, 09:58 AM   #4651
rantanamo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,507
Likes (Received): 353

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


I say focus on Dallas to Houston, then Austin to San Antonio, then fill the rest in. Seems like a lot of people in government in the U.S. have no idea what the **** they're doing. Keep it simple! Personally I like the look of Siemens Velaro trains but I'll take anything that runs at 217 mph and faster.
DFW politics. Any project that comes along ends up like this. This is what happened with the Cotton Belt
rantanamo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2014, 06:41 PM   #4652
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

The two projects have nothing to do with one another. Texas Central is cooperating with Dallas and Texas authorities on the Fortworth-Dallas leg, but the Houston-Dallas system is completely, entirely separate.
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2014, 09:38 AM   #4653
rantanamo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,507
Likes (Received): 353

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
The two projects have nothing to do with one another. Texas Central is cooperating with Dallas and Texas authorities on the Fortworth-Dallas leg, but the Houston-Dallas system is completely, entirely separate.
If only things worked like that. Welcome to North Texas.
__________________

sweet-d liked this post
rantanamo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #4654
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
If only things worked like that. Welcome to North Texas.
They are two separate projects. The Tx Central project is being undertaken with consultation from JR Central (i.e. they're emulating the Shikansen model).

The Fort-Worth to Dallas project is meant to take advantage of planning (undertaking EIS in concert with one another) for the TX Central project, but they are not mutually exclusive: whether or not the Fort-Worth link is built, the Houston-Dallas leg won't be affected.
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2014, 06:26 PM   #4655
sweet-d
Registered User
 
sweet-d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chengdu
Posts: 1,612
Likes (Received): 265

Yeah I can't think of any reason why their needs to be a link from forth worth to Dallas with a possible stop in Arlington. It's so stupid just let the private corporation build what they think is the most profitable line first. Especially a stop in Arlington that makes no sense at all. At least not until after the Dallas to Houston line is finished.
sweet-d no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2014, 02:11 AM   #4656
rantanamo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,507
Likes (Received): 353

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
They are two separate projects. The Tx Central project is being undertaken with consultation from JR Central (i.e. they're emulating the Shikansen model).

The Fort-Worth to Dallas project is meant to take advantage of planning (undertaking EIS in concert with one another) for the TX Central project, but they are not mutually exclusive: whether or not the Fort-Worth link is built, the Houston-Dallas leg won't be affected.
Again, you're stating something that should be from far away. That's just not how its going to work. Lots of ROW and variance to be obtained. They could totally F-this up, just like they have other projects in the past.
__________________

sweet-d liked this post
rantanamo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2014, 09:27 AM   #4657
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

They. Aren't. The. Same. Project.
Two separate ones.
Not the same.
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2014, 02:36 AM   #4658
Hypothalamus
Homo sapiens sapiens
 
Hypothalamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: 3rd planet from the Sun
Posts: 5
Likes (Received): 4

Fantastic pictures Nexis!
__________________
“If I have done the public any service, it is due to my patient thought.” ― Isaac Newton
Hypothalamus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2014, 05:17 AM   #4659
rantanamo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 3,507
Likes (Received): 353

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
They. Aren't. The. Same. Project.
Two separate ones.
Not the same.
Right, but both will need political support from regional leaders. You just can't build infrastructure of that size without input, ROW or construction companies, allowances, etc. Yes, they are seperate projects, but there's plenty of opportunity for political shade to be thrown its way. The people of this area know how things work. That's why there's an article about it. You think SWA won't fight this tooth and nail with the Bass Brothers throwing their political weight at the leaders of Ellis or Navarro County? The RTC is already throwing shade on the project by telling the public details from the meetings and trying to publicly influence the investors where the line should be built for cheaper in their opinion. Who do you think runs the RTC. They will get their piece or it won't happen. This is just how things work in DFW. Why do you think our Superbowl and Final Four were called "North Texas"? That wasn't some moniker of friendship.
__________________

sweet-d liked this post
rantanamo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2014, 12:25 PM   #4660
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
Right, but both will need political support from regional leaders. You just can't build infrastructure of that size without input, ROW or construction companies, allowances, etc. Yes, they are seperate projects, but there's plenty of opportunity for political shade to be thrown its way. The people of this area know how things work. That's why there's an article about it. You think SWA won't fight this tooth and nail with the Bass Brothers throwing their political weight at the leaders of Ellis or Navarro County? The RTC is already throwing shade on the project by telling the public details from the meetings and trying to publicly influence the investors where the line should be built for cheaper in their opinion. Who do you think runs the RTC. They will get their piece or it won't happen. This is just how things work in DFW. Why do you think our Superbowl and Final Four were called "North Texas"? That wasn't some moniker of friendship.
SWA doesn't care because they will no longer be restricted to flying within Texas come the end of the year...

I don't know anything about the politics, so I can't comment on the matter. However, I'm speaking specifically to the perception that the fate of the Fort-Worth project is going to damage Texas Central's plans: the Houston-Dallas project is envisioned as a complete system without any other segments.

Considering the areas that they're considering running the ROW, I think it's a high probability that this won't face stiff opposition. Considering how vocal they've been in outreach in the rural communities that would be affected (see CAHSR for an example of what happens when you don't).
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium