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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 20th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #4761
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Originally Posted by Tower Dude View Post
I totally agree with you that Amtrak would have to use the Bombardier Multi-Level Coaches and about the EMU's but since Amtrak just bought the ACS64s it doesn't seem likely, and the comfortability on those coaches is meh, but they would probably have to make a lot of modifications to the cars as the would now be for longer distances so the seats the seats and baggage storage would probably be different also the added cafe cars.
No. Studies were conducted by Amtrak on these cars and it was determined that there would be insufficient carry-on luggage space. Also, any supposed seat increase would be minimal on an Amtrak configured car, so the extra expense is not warranted in this situation.

Also, as commuter cars, they quite frankly suck under crowding conditions.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 10:59 AM   #4762
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No. Studies were conducted by Amtrak on these cars and it was determined that there would be insufficient carry-on luggage space. Also, any supposed seat increase would be minimal on an Amtrak configured car, so the extra expense is not warranted in this situation.

Also, as commuter cars, they quite frankly suck under crowding conditions.
Ah, Thank you very Much. I was unaware that amtrak commissioned studies for the MLVs. I Was just giving my two cents, for what it was worth, on how to increase capacity on the northeast regional trains. The Amfleet cars aren't getting any younger.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:18 PM   #4763
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Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee View Post
HSR will work best when the cities it links have decent public transportation and that may be a weakness in Texas; not prohibitive, but an issue.
Which won't happen. Not enough people, too much space. Where are the passengers going once they get off at the HSR? It would be like having every town+ in Russia, Canada, South Africa, Argentina, Mexico, Kazakhstan, Australia or Brasil having bus service every 10 minutes to the nearest train station.

Which those nations do not have. People have cars. Even the Chinese, best HSR system in the world, are buying cars because cars save people time and money.

Why would it make sense in the USA outside of the NE Corridor? The Acela is there, it loses money (Amtrak has lost money for decades, this is common knowledge, people in that part of the USA mention this often) and it is still too expensive and too time consuming compared to getting on the WDC Metro taking a cab or having a friend drive one or taking the subway to National Airport, and flying to one of the 4 NYC airports, or Boston.

I see the same opinions expressed over and over and over here by people who have never lived in the NE Corridor and I can tell you, 25+ years living in DC, that people want cars, they don't take the train that often, it's easier to fly and if you need to go ANYWHERE other than Penn Station in Manhattan, a car saves time and money. There is not enough shopping at Metro stations to get errands done. You want to go to a warehouse store? You need a car to get to/from in a timely fashion.

Want to go to the hardware store? Costco? Grocer? Car. Even if one lives in the city of DC - and YES I have friends who live in the city and YES they own a car to get around because YES it saves time and money compared to the bus or a taxi. They have apartments and in the basement they pay a monthly fee to park their ride.

You guys might want to ask people what they do rather than site a study, pull a webpage, or read something on your screen thousands of miles away from a place you do not know.

The California rail project will be a massive waste of hundred's of billions. It will go to, literally, nowhere at first shuttling no one between two desert communities. Fresno-Bakersfield. This is a joke. People in LA talk about it as such. Who travels from Fresno to Bakersfield? Illegal migrant workers, prisoners and Meth addicts, that's who. (Fresno is a meth capital) People who cannot afford a car.

Anyone here ever driven the I-5 or I-40 through the Central Valley? I have. It's nearly deserted. There is NOTHING there. Trips take people all over, not end point to end point. There is no way to have enough buses to get everyone to take the train-bus, no way to create ""decent public transportation"". There are far too many places people will need to get to once they alight at a train station.

In addition, in the USA it is widely considered that only losers and the poor take public transportation in many cities. Normal people do not take the bus in the suburbs, in Los Angeles. They do in Seattle, in NYC, in DC, but not in many cities.

Now you will argue with me, but I just don't have the time any longer to point out the errant thinking of a bunch of 20/30-something non-North Americans.

China has HSR. China also has 1000 million people in an area the size of the part of the USA that is east of the Mississippi River.

It is much much more crowded than the USA and it is why HSR works well in China.

Now you will all argue - but I just don't have the time or inclination any longer.

Watch and see. The Cali HSR will finish and NO ONE will ride it except the families of convicts who get government free stipend tickets to visit prisons. Anyone who can afford HSR will fly LAX-SFO, because anyone who can afford it has other things to do and they don't want to waste time.
Anyone who drives needs to go someplace that the train and public transportation will.not.go.

It would be like having every-10 minute shuttle bus service in all of Russia or Canada.

Maybe one day you will realise that the USA is different. But I am not going to wait around to see.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 04:18 PM   #4764
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California and Spain have almost exactly the same population density, and Spain has the most extensive HSR network in Europe. Plus California only really needs one line to connect the major population centers and is substantially wealthier than Spain.

So that would suggest you don't need East Asian density for successful HSR.

Also, I think Japan and Western Europe will be inclined to disagree that China has the best/most successful HSR network in the world.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 05:56 PM   #4765
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If you adapt your cities for cars for 60 years (and apparently still do), then it is no wonder that people take cars.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 06:07 PM   #4766
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I will point out that the Acela actually gains over 120 million a year in profits, according to Amtrak, please check your stats. Furthermore, the majority of people I know in DC love taking and prefer to take the Metro.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 06:08 PM   #4767
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http://www.globalconreview.com/news/...l975336788765/

A Step in the Right Direction
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 06:28 PM   #4768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
The Acela is there, it loses money
Wrong. Acela, NE Regional, and some CA trains break even or make money. Long-distance routes are losing money, without getting into the merits of keeping or dropping that service. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/bu...trak.html?_r=0

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
YES I have friends who live in the city and YES they own a car to get around
Anecdotal. Over 35% of Washingtonians live in households without cars. I do, and I've lived here for 21 years, so suffice to say I know this area quite well and have studied it closely. Source: http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/...prodType=table

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Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
YES it saves time and money compared to the bus or a taxi
HIGHLY debatable. According to AAA, car ownership and operation costs over $9,000/yr. Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...costs/2070397/

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Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Who travels from Fresno to Bakersfield? Illegal migrant workers, prisoners and Meth addicts, that's who. (Fresno is a meth capital) People who cannot afford a car.
Wow, that's just straight-up uncalled for. Maybe you should take your own advice and "ask people what they do rather than cite a study, pull a webpage, or read something on your screen thousands of miles away from a place you do not know."


Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
In addition, in the USA it is widely considered that only losers and the poor take public transportation in many cities.
Nice passive voice there. Who thinks that? Citations, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
NO ONE will ride it except the families of convicts who get government free stipend tickets to visit prisons. Anyone who can afford HSR will fly LAX-SFO, because anyone who can afford it has other things to do and they don't want to waste time.
And here you go again with the rude comments. Acela and NE Regional, which aren't even real high-speed rail, carry 75% of NY-DC and 54% of NY-BOS trips. Seems pretty compelling to me that people will use rail when it's a viable alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
realise
You even American, bro? We spell it "realize" in the States.
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Last edited by DCUrbanist; July 24th, 2014 at 01:25 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 03:05 AM   #4769
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I don't know what China Hand is doing back in this thread....I mean of course, he does know everything about everywhere, but in that case what does he have to gain from participation here?

No one is arguing for HSR from Cheyenne to Boise, or even New Orleans to Austin or Birmingham to Atlanta. That does not mean, by extension, that there is one and only one place in the country that is viable for high-speed rail service.

Seriously, save yourself the time and energy, China Hand, and go back to the Chinese HSR thread to tell everyone there that they're wrong and have no idea what they're talking about....
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Old July 24th, 2014, 04:20 PM   #4770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
The California rail project will be a massive waste of hundred's of billions. It will go to, literally, nowhere at first shuttling no one between two desert communities. Fresno-Bakersfield. This is a joke. People in LA talk about it as such. Who travels from Fresno to Bakersfield?
You know what? I'm tired of people going on about something they know nothing about. If you read the business plan, they clearly indicate that every segment (as is mandated by Prop1A) will be a revenue-generating, usable segment). This is how the authority, which won't run any services, will pay for the initial capital costs and finance the rest of the system.

The IOS in the Central Valley will allow Amtrak services to connect their Bay Area service to the LA Valley service. THAT is the point of starting in the Central Valley.

That's what the entire court ruling a few months ago was about: CAHSRA was banking on borrowing to finance the system from revenue from the IOS and the judge interpreted that as being in violation of Prop1A because he figured it wasn't enough to demonstrate that they would complete the Bay-to-Basin and LA valley part of the system. It didn't obligate them to complete (even though every draft business plan indicated they understood the mandate and were fulfilling it) the rest of the system.

There's a lot more off with what you said, but like you, "I don't have the energy." I'm just tired of this silly tripe. The IOS is a useable segment. The land is cheap. The area is economically depressed, so I would think investment would be a good thing. In any case, people will have to travel through this area to actually reach either terminus...
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Last edited by phoenixboi08; July 25th, 2014 at 06:35 PM.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 06:04 PM   #4771
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Even if you were correct about HSR not working in the Central Valley alone, your blatant stereotyping is highly offensive and inaccurate.

Any supporters you might have had for your argument are now lost. I have also lost complete respect for you as a fellow debater.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #4772
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I hate to pile on, especially as it's basically OT, but China Hand is rarely actually interesting in a debate. It's difficult to enjoy a discussion with a self-righteous brick wall.

Mods should come and clean this up before it gets really out of hand.
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Old July 26th, 2014, 03:43 AM   #4773
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Speaking of China"hand"
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Old July 26th, 2014, 04:38 AM   #4774
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So anyone hear anything recently on the procurement of the HSR train sets for California?
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Old July 26th, 2014, 10:03 AM   #4775
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So anyone hear anything recently on the procurement of the HSR train sets for California?
Other than the joint procurement with Amtrak NEC was cancelled, no. Anyway, the process of procurement is still many years ahead, possibly involving the next generation of rolling stock(i.e. not the stuff currently in the catalogs).
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Old July 26th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #4776
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Certainly is an exciting prospect. Given that we've obviously leveled off on top train speeds being mostly between 300-380km/h, I wonder what most the development will focus on for the next generation of trains. I'd think energy efficiency and cost reduction would be important, but who knows?
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Old July 26th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #4777
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Quote:
High-speed rail Pacheco Pass route upheld by appeals court

Associated Press

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- A state appeals court on Thursday upheld a proposed route for California's high-speed rail line connecting the San Francisco Bay Area to the Central Valley.

The decision is a short-term win for Gov. Jerry Brown, who has prioritized the $68-billion project that has become bogged down by legal and regulatory challenges.

The Third District Court of Appeals in Sacramento heard an appeal from San Francisco Bay Area cities arguing that a planned path through Pacheco Pass hurts the environment.

The state argued the project was exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act because it is overseen by the federal Surface Transportation Board.
http://www.mercurynews.com/californi...-by?source=rss
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Old July 27th, 2014, 03:36 AM   #4778
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Acela Whoosh at Secaucus


Outbound Acela Express at Secaucus Junction
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Acela Whoosh at Secaucus Junction
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Acela Whoosh at Secaucus Junction
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Old August 1st, 2014, 03:55 AM   #4779
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US High Speed presentation: Japan's Shinkansen

I found a really interesting presentation. Looks like it was presented to the US by a Japanese company/consortium (JR) pitching using Japan's Shinkansen tech for the US.

http://www.apta.com/mc/hsr/previous/...High-Speed.pdf
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Old August 1st, 2014, 07:04 PM   #4780
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Looks like we'll finally see structural work sometime by the end of the summer.

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Originally Posted by San Jose Mercury News; Jessica Calefati
In a decision the appellate court judges call "quite narrow," they found the rail authority's finance committee acted properly last year when it voted to approve the issuance of bonds and called Kinney's scrutiny of the committee's work "highly unusual." The state had asked for pre-approval from the Superior Court to sell the bonds to avoid any future legal challenges.

The appellate judges also refused to force the Legislature to rescind and redo a bullet train funding plan it approved several years ago that was at the heart of the opposition's case for killing the project.
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