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Old September 15th, 2014, 03:10 PM   #4861
phoenixboi08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
My understanding is that when Madera-Bakersfield section is finished it will be used by the current Amtrak trains (SF-Bakersfield). There may be more of them and there will certainly be significant time improvements however the real high speed trains will only appear when this section is connected to either SF or LA. Not known yet which connection is likely to happen first.

I guess it all depends on how quickly they electricity Caltrain/Metrolink as well as complete Transbay/Union Station improvements.

From what I've gathered in the business plan, they're hoping to borrow over operating costs once the IOS is completed to finish the vast majority of the ends as well as expand to Sacramento and San Diego.

Depending upon how many new train sets Amtrak orders for the Acela, they may be able to shuffle some of the current (or even newer) ones to CA. That's what I'm wondering, since CAHSRA and Amtrak seem to have a good working relationship (i.e. They communicate with one another).
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Old September 15th, 2014, 07:43 PM   #4862
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Plans for a joint order have been abandoned.
Suddenly have realized that need very different trains: Amtrak needed 28 trains for 257 km / h (after parking the previous plans for a new line) and CaHSRA need 15 to 350 km / h.
In addition, Amtrak has more haste.
....................................................
Los planes de un pedido conjunto han sido abandonados.
De pronto se han dado cuenta de que necesitan trenes muy distintos: Amtrak necesita trenes 28 trenes para 257 km/h (tras aparcar los anteriores planes de una nueva línea) y CaHSRA necesita 15 para 350 km/h.
Además, Amtrak tiene más prisa.
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Old September 15th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #4863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
I guess it all depends on how quickly they electricity Caltrain/Metrolink as well as complete Transbay/Union Station improvements.
Caltrain electrification is scheduled to be finished in 2019 so before Merced-Bakersfield HS line section however the gap between those two lines would still be ca 130 miles. Before that section is built there is no way for trains running between Bakersfield and Madera to use Caltrain tracks.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 07:00 AM   #4864
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Does anyone know anything recent about the SESHR? The latest update on the official website is almost a year old..
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Old September 18th, 2014, 03:54 PM   #4865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
Plans for a joint order have been abandoned.
Suddenly have realized that need very different trains: Amtrak needed 28 trains for 257 km / h (after parking the previous plans for a new line) and CaHSRA need 15 to 350 km / h.
In addition, Amtrak has more haste.
....................................................
Los planes de un pedido conjunto han sido abandonados.
De pronto se han dado cuenta de que necesitan trenes muy distintos: Amtrak necesita trenes 28 trenes para 257 km/h (tras aparcar los anteriores planes de una nueva línea) y CaHSRA necesita 15 para 350 km/h.
Además, Amtrak tiene más prisa.
No, I'm not talking about the joint-order. I'm talking about the actual Acela transits, which will be totally replaced by 2020. I'm just curious if they can shift any of those locomotives (and cars) to fulfill service on this line in the interim (e.g. until formal bidding commences for servicing LA-SF).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Caltrain electrification is scheduled to be finished in 2019 so before Merced-Bakersfield HS line section however the gap between those two lines would still be ca 130 miles. Before that section is built there is no way for trains running between Bakersfield and Madera to use Caltrain tracks.
The current Amtrak service terminates in Oakland (I believe it runs east to Stockton, then continues South), which I was under the impression would be able to make use of the IOS (utilization of the PDL from Merced to Bakersfield for significant time savings). I also thought this was why they were accelerating the Palmdale section. In other words, they'll continue to serve SF via Oakland until the full-build out is complete.




It just feels like it's a bit more pressing to handle things in LA country so that they can at least begin service on the IOS, rather than focusing primarily on the Peninsula. That's what I was trying to address.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 08:18 PM   #4866
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OK now I understand.
In this blog you have information that you can understand much better than me.
Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog
I hope you tell us, thanks!

A greeting
..............................
OK ahora te entiendo.
En este blog tienes información que podrás entender mucho mejor que yo.
Espero que nos lo cuentes, gracias!

Un saludo
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Old September 18th, 2014, 08:25 PM   #4867
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What seems now reasonably likely is that stretch from Merced to Bakersfield gets built. That will shave off an hour or two for Oakland-Bakersfield Amtrak service. What if anything happens after that is much less clear.

I agree that the Southern end is of higher priority, but on the other hand it's likely to be more expensive. I've heard of calls for some massive tunnelling there.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 08:37 PM   #4868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
OK now I understand.
In this blog you have information that you can understand much better than me.
Caltrain HSR Compatibility Blog
I hope you tell us, thanks!

A greeting
..............................
OK ahora te entiendo.
En este blog tienes información que podrás entender mucho mejor que yo.
Espero que nos lo cuentes, gracias!

Un saludo
Thanks for that, I'm not at all knowledgeable about the compatibility (design/engineering considerations) but it seems like a good source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
What seems now reasonably likely is that stretch from Merced to Bakersfield gets built. That will shave off an hour or two for Oakland-Bakersfield Amtrak service. What if anything happens after that is much less clear.

I agree that the Southern end is of higher priority, but on the other hand it's likely to be more expensive. I've heard of calls for some massive tunnelling there.
Yeah, I haven't heard anything else about that alternative route proposal(s).
It does seem a bit silly, especially since it feels like it's Santa Clarita wants to be bypassed... I haven't heard enough yet about the system-wide benefits of the tunneling they're calling for in that alternative.
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Old September 19th, 2014, 05:17 AM   #4869
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They're going to need to make a Nevada connection much bigger once the gigafactories get up and running
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 07:15 AM   #4870
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Some News on the House's Passenger Rail Reform and Investment act, and how it might be bringing some changes to the NEC soon.
http://skift.com/2014/09/20/amtrak-f...lans-on-track/
Quote:
Amtrak is preparing to receive less funding from Congress for new construction, but that isn’t deterring plans for high-speed rail service along the northeast corridor in the future.
The bill provides the option to tap into the Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing (RRIF) program, which can authorize up to $35 billion in loans, and improve partnerships with states to advance large infrastructure projects.
The bill would help advance some near-term capital projects (bridges, tunnels, catenary) that would improve the corridor, and are identified as needed early investments in Amtrak’s much larger, much longer-term high speed rail vision documents,” Billimoria said.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 01:15 PM   #4872
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From Railway Gazette:

Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/s...ocurement.html

California begins high speed rolling stock procurement
03 Oct 2014


The Californian high speed rail programme envisages provision of a 'one seat ride' between Los Angeles and San Francisco by 2028 within a budget of $68bn

USA: Expressions of interest are to be submitted to the California High Speed Rail Authority by October 22 from potential suppliers of high speed trainsets for the planned 836 km network that would link the San Francisco Bay Area with the Los Angeles basin by 2028.

Issuing its call for initial responses from the supply industry ahead of a formal request for proposals, CHSRA said on October 2 that it hoped to ‘open up conversations with high speed train manufacturers’. Respondents are also expected to outline how they would provide 30 years of maintenance and spares, including proposals for a rolling stock maintenance facility to be located on land in the Central Valley which CHSRA would purchase and prepare

...
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 08:21 PM   #4873
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California Rail Project Pursues Deal With Las Vegas Train

Quote:
A private train intended to whisk Southern Californians to Las Vegas casinos and resorts could boost the proposed government-owned high-speed rail connection between Los Angeles and San Francisco, which has lost support as cost estimates swelled.

A public partnership with private operators would help build segments of the system, Dan Richard, chairman of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, said in an interview. “We are not going to be a government-run railroad,” Richard said. “Our business model is that the private sector will come in and bid for the right to operate on our system.”

[...]

Authority officials want to cooperate with DesertXpress Enterprises LLC to make it happen. The company, operating as XpressWest, plans a 150 mph train that would connect Palmdale, about 70 miles north of Los Angeles, with Las Vegas, Chief Executive Officer Tony Marnell said in a telephone interview.

The Las Vegas company originally planned for its route to end in Victorville, about 50 miles east of Palmdale. It added a Victorville-to-Palmdale segment after the High-Speed Rail Authority routed its train through the city, he said. The Las Vegas train would switch to public tracks in Palmdale.

[...]
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Old October 4th, 2014, 03:49 PM   #4874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
That article doesn't wash. I believe what they're reporting is that CAHSRA is interested in having XpressWest as an operator (probably of service to Las Vegas at this point, since it's unclear they'd want - or Xpress West could even handle - a single operator for the entire system), which comes through in the latter half of the article. Fine.

However, I don't know why they're painting the picture in the first half (by linking general, non-related statements by Dan Richards) that a "private" entity is going to help finance the California project, when 1) they're clearly not (as Xpress West has no money to invest in anything) and 2) they're in no position to even build their own link at the moment...

If anything, it's the other way around: being involved in the CA system will help expedite the Xpress West link.

This is why people don't understand how the system is being financed to begin with.

If they have a problem with a "government owned system" (which, in all honesty, it really isn't), fine, but to go on and on about Xpress West, Texas Central, etc like they're perfect alternatives is horribly hypocritical.
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Old October 6th, 2014, 10:56 PM   #4875
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"The design would be based on a ‘service-proven trainset in use in commercial high speed service at at least 300 km/h for a minimum of five years’. A maximum train length of 205 m is specified, with a minimum of 450 seats in first and business classes with seat pitches of 1 067 mm and 991 mm respectively. Static axleloads should not exceed 17 tonnes"
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
From Railway Gazette:
California begins high speed rolling stock procurement
And I add: it must have a width of 3.2 / 3.4 meters.

These are the ones that meet:
Kawasaki. Hitachi. Nippon Sharyo & Kinki Sharyo N700 width 3.380 300 km/h 546 seats 205 meters 370 tonnes
Siemens Velaro CN (CRH3C) width 3.200 350 km/h 556/600 seats 200 meters 447 tonnes

And these that no:
Hyundai Rotem KTX Sancheon II (since 2010) 305 km/h width 2.970 363 seats 201 meters 434 tonnes
Talgo/Bombardier T350 (102 series) width 2.942 363 seats 200 meters 322 tonnes
CSR Sifang CRH2C width 3.380 m 610 seats 201 meters 371 tonnes (rather than potential patent issues with Kawasaki)
CSR Sifang CRH380A (since 2010) width 3.380 579 seats 203 meters 388 tonnes
Kawasaki-Hitachi E5 (since 2011) width 3.350 731 seats 253 meters 454 tonnes
Alstom AGV (ETR 575 since 2012) width 2.985 460 seats 200 meters 401 tonnes
Bombardier Zefiro 380 ( CRH380D since 2014) width 3.400 495 seats 215 meters 462 tonnes
Bombardier V300 Zefiro (ETR 1000. desde 2015) 447/485 seats 202 meters 500 tonnes
CAF Oaris (on test) 430 seats 202 meters
AnsaldoBreda ETR 500 656 seats 328 meters 576 tonnes (It is 2000, ruled for many reasons)
Alstom Duplex (two floors) width 2.900 509/560 seats 200 meters 390 tonnes
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Old October 7th, 2014, 12:34 AM   #4876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
The exact same thing happened in France when they started operating the LGVs. In Japan domestic flights are mainly limited to the longest domestic routes, but Shinkansen has the major share. In Germany there is less effect, because of the lower speeds on the NBSs, coupled to more stops.
But the obvious moral of the story: provide a good alternative and people will use it.
Shinkansen does move a lot of people, but passengers have been declining in the last few years since LCCs have infiltrated Japan. Now, airlines like Peach and Jetstar are taking away some O&D traffic to some places. They run on a RyanAir/EasyJet kind of model.

Shinkansen is seen as as a premium way to travel, better than flying. It is almost never discounted. Just like other modes of transportation, short distance travellers on Shinkansen are penalized.. but for the kind of trips most people take, hovers between 26 - 30¥ / km.

Code:
From 	to	distance	price (¥)	¥/km
Fukuoka	Aomori	1888	35660	19
Tokyo	Fukuoka	1175	22950	20
Tokyo	Aomori	713	17350	24
Osaka	Fukuoka	622	15310	25
Tokyo	Osaka	552	14450	26
Tokyo	Nagoya	366	11090	30
Tokyo	Shizuoka	180	 6350	35
Osaka	Okayama	180	 6020	33
Osaka	Kyoto	39	 3020	77
¥1 ~= $0.01. So you can think of those prices as being in pennies.

In addition, Japan have also removed some of the more expensive highway tolls, making driving slightly more attractive.

For California, that would translate to one-way fares of approximately:

Code:
SF - LA 	$150 @ ~0.25/km
SF - BF	$125 @ ~0.28/km
SF - FR	$100 @ ~0.32/km
LA - BF	 $50 @ ~0.34/km
SF - SJ	 $35 @ ~0.40/km
At those prices, do you guys think the service will be popular? NOTE: This is directly taking the Japanese pricing structure, which essentially has NO discounts built in and no "last-minute-surcharges" either.

These prices seem directly in line with regular price airline tickets. There is obviously a discount for round-trip tickets. Do these prices pretty much jive with what you all expect to see?
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Old October 7th, 2014, 12:49 AM   #4877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
"The design would be based on a ‘service-proven trainset in use in commercial high speed service at at least 300 km/h for a minimum of five years’. A maximum train length of 205 m is specified, with a minimum of 450 seats in first and business classes with seat pitches of 1 067 mm and 991 mm respectively. Static axleloads should not exceed 17 tonnes"


And I add: it must have a width of 3.2 / 3.4 meters.

These are the ones that meet:
Kawasaki. Hitachi. Nippon Sharyo & Kinki Sharyo N700 width 3.380 300 km/h 546 seats 205 meters 370 tonnes
Siemens Velaro CN (CRH3C) width 3.200 350 km/h 556/600 seats 200 meters 447 tonnes
It seems like they're leaning towards Japanese trains. Note, it isn't always about top speed. If I'm not mistaken, the Multiple EMU setup of the N700 makes it one of the fastest to accelerate to top speed.

Also, its max speed is 270km/h on the original line with min. 2500m curve radius.
On newer sections with 4000m curve radius, it is limited to 300km/h.

California doesn't have as strict noise pollution laws, fewer tunnels, and fewer earthquakes... meaning it would likely be able to travel much faster in California than in Japan.

Edit: According to this article, max speed would be up to 322km/h for the N700: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201...texas-by-2021/
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Last edited by bluemeansgo; October 7th, 2014 at 01:05 AM.
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Old October 7th, 2014, 12:54 AM   #4878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
Shinkansen does move a lot of people, but passengers have been declining in the last few years since LCCs have infiltrated Japan. Now, airlines like Peach and Jetstar are taking away some O&D traffic to some places. They run on a RyanAir/EasyJet kind of model.
...

The figures indicate that the number of travelers has not fallen in Japan.

Billion passenger km:
2000 71,154
2001 72,317
2002 71,538
2003 73,006
2004 74,461
2005 77,908
2006 79,439
2007 82,826
2008 81,660
2009 76,044
2010 77,431
2011 81,420
2012 86,000

Even taking into account tsunami and subsequent blackout of electricity of nuclear origin.

Last edited by Gusiluz; October 7th, 2014 at 01:00 AM.
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Old October 7th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #4879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
The figures indicate that the number of travelers has not fallen in Japan.

Billion passenger km:
2000 71,154
2001 72,317
2002 71,538
2003 73,006
2004 74,461
2005 77,908
2006 79,439
2007 82,826
2008 81,660
2009 76,044
2010 77,431
2011 81,420
2012 86,000

Even taking into account tsunami and subsequent blackout of electricity of nuclear origin.
I can't find the source, but I understand that peak pax has declined slightly from 2007. Of course, population of Japan is also declining, so I guess it's all how you interpret the numbers.

A few new lines are coming online in the next few years, so I'm sure we'll see record numbers again, anyhow.
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Old October 7th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #4880
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Im glad Japan gets the California HSR
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