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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 4th, 2014, 07:09 PM   #5041
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No. I'm neither right nor left. I simply support personal and economic liberty.
So You're a libertarian?
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Old November 4th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #5042
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WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS TRAINS AND RAILROAD INFRASTRUCTURE, NOT POLITICS!!
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Old November 4th, 2014, 08:04 PM   #5043
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Well it is Election Day, and yes Cuomo has worked hard to revitalize Upstate NY's economy which is heavily discussed in Buffalo Development News in Northeast and Mid-Atlantic.
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Old November 4th, 2014, 11:01 PM   #5044
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Ya but thats more policy than X is better than Y.
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Old November 4th, 2014, 11:15 PM   #5045
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It takes 9 faking hours to get from NYC to Niagara Falls/Buffalo. 9 HOURS! I was planing to go see the falls by rail but then I said, screw that.. i mean, that's just atrociously unbelievably horrifically awful.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 12:14 AM   #5046
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The Emprire Builder has taken 12 hours to get from Minneapolis to Milwaukee. That's a 6 hour drive. It's only on time 20% of the time! Lol
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Old November 5th, 2014, 12:32 AM   #5047
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It takes 9 faking hours to get from NYC to Niagara Falls/Buffalo. 9 HOURS! I was planing to go see the falls by rail but then I said, screw that.. i mean, that's just atrociously unbelievably horrifically awful.
Try being stuck on the train from Boston to Cleveland. While you're in Massachusetts, you stop whenever CSX wants you to, and when you're west of Schenectady...you stop whenever CSX wants you to. Took me 24 hours one time.

I know that the track in western MA is anachronistically twisty, but honestly, assuming they have the ROW, just how much could double/triple-tracking cost?
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Old November 5th, 2014, 03:41 AM   #5048
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Old November 5th, 2014, 04:47 AM   #5049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City-of-Platinum View Post
It takes 9 faking hours to get from NYC to Niagara Falls/Buffalo. 9 HOURS! I was planing to go see the falls by rail but then I said, screw that.. i mean, that's just atrociously unbelievably horrifically awful.
I know, I was bored to death.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 10:14 AM   #5050
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How much would it basically cost to upgrade the entire track to 110mph standard along vital corridors? China can manage average speeds of more than 100 kph on normal rails through very mountainous terrain, so surely the US can do better even with normal AMTRAK trains on flat ground.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 12:19 PM   #5051
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You can upgrade existing track to 500 mph standard for all I care, but that will not make any difference as long as the track is owned by a freight railroad company that can make more money by giving priority to its own trains.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 12:48 PM   #5052
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You can upgrade existing track to 500 mph standard for all I care, but that will not make any difference as long as the track is owned by a freight railroad company that can make more money by giving priority to its own trains.
How does the system work in Europe?
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Old November 5th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #5053
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Officially it should work like this: Track occupancy is divided into time slots. On time trains get priority to use their assigned slot. Late (and early) trains are served based on a priority schedule, which often, but not always(!), gives priority to passenger trains.

The reality is slightly different and usually amounts to passenger trains getting priority when things go south.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 05:04 PM   #5054
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Well, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not the next week, but someday we will travel from Toronto to Buffalo and NY on a HSR.
Don't count on it. Actually, not a chance.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 07:48 PM   #5055
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Quote:
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How does the system work in Europe?
Infrastructure managers create grooves off-hours maintenance, the cost of each row depends on the saturation in that time interval. Traders buy grooves, or ask a new one, depending on their interests and their cost. Infrastructure managers keep the lines with revenues of canons: grooves, using stations, parking on tracks, logistics, electricity, etc.

For example, a London-Brussels Eurostar trip cost on average and with an occupancy of 65%, 53 € per passenger canons only.
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Después de leerme este tocho (mucha literatura y pocos datos), solo soy capaz de resaltar lo siguiente:

Evolución (2005/2012) de los cánones por km*tren en algunas LAVs:

Se puede decir que es la única LAV pura alemana. Según wiki.it NTV paga 13,4 € de canon por km*tren por sus Italo de AV.

Canon en 2011 para el Eurostar según tramos, e ingresos brutos anuales por km:


Otros países:
Here is a lot of information over canons, but is in Spanish.
..................................
Los administradores de infraestructuras crean unos surcos fuera de las horas de mantenimiento, el coste de cada surco depende de la saturación en ese intervalo de tiempo. Los operadores compran surcos, o piden uno nuevo, en función de sus intereses y de su precio. Los administradores de infraestructuras mantienen las líneas con los ingresos de los cánones: surcos, uso de estaciones, vías de estacionamiento, logística, electricidad, etc.
Por ejemplo, un viaje Londres-Bruselas en Eurostar cuesta, de media y con una ocupación del 65%, 53 € por viajero solo en cánones.
Aquí hay mucha información sobre cánones, pero está en español.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 02:15 AM   #5056
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Don't count on it. Actually, not a chance.
If they can upgrade the track to 110mph standard then people may switch modes.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 06:38 AM   #5057
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I know next to nothing about track dynamics and maintenance, but even at relatively low by world standards 110mph track, wouldn't the passage of multiple North American style 75~ 100 car freight trains (each weighing a total of several thousands, or perhaps tens of thosands of tons) damage track to the extent that maintenance would be cost prohibitive and/or result in lower speeds for the passenger trains (due to that damage from minimally maintained freight cars)?? Remember that N. American freight trains derail often, and sometimes catastrophically.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 09:18 AM   #5058
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Trains usually derail because of bad track alignment or track damage (often caused by bad maintenance to either track or rolling stock[flat spotted wheels!]). Note that NA is the only territory where the combination of high axle loads and high(er) speeds is used on the same track. That in itself isn't a problem, in fact a 300 km/h 16 ton/axle high speed train will probably cause higher dynamic track loads then a 30 mph 30 ton/axle freight train.

The real question is: Why would a the freight railroad build and maintain track to a higher standard then needed for their operation? It would only cost them extra. Given that reality it's already amazing that there is 110 mph track.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 09:23 AM   #5059
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:42 PM   #5060
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Quote:
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Trains usually derail because of bad track alignment or track damage (often caused by bad maintenance to either track or rolling stock[flat spotted wheels!]). Note that NA is the only territory where the combination of high axle loads and high(er) speeds is used on the same track. That in itself isn't a problem, in fact a 300 km/h 16 ton/axle high speed train will probably cause higher dynamic track loads then a 30 mph 30 ton/axle freight train.

The real question is: Why would a the freight railroad build and maintain track to a higher standard then needed for their operation? It would only cost them extra. Given that reality it's already amazing that there is 110 mph track.
What I mean is that if you look at China, its fastest normal trains run at 160kph, at yet they can average more than 100kph on mountainous routes, much if the US is flat ground, so the normal US trains can probably average 130kph or more, which will make them competitive with cars and buses.
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