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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 9th, 2015, 04:46 AM   #5221
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You really are THAT pessimistic?
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Old January 9th, 2015, 05:59 AM   #5222
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I would say Sacramento-Bakersfield in 15-20 years, tops. With an extension to SanFran maybe 5 years after that. Followed by LA maybe 27-28 years from now.

San Diego might take a little longer.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 06:15 AM   #5223
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This along with Elon's Hyperloop gets me very excited for the future of high-speed transportation systems in the US.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 07:34 AM   #5224
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Originally Posted by Melonus View Post
This along with Elon's Hyperloop gets me very excited for the future of high-speed transportation systems in the US.
Hyper loop? I'm holding out for the Stargate, or maybe travel tubes like in futurama..
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Old January 9th, 2015, 08:14 AM   #5225
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Don't forget the straddling bus. No discussion of transportation hoaxes can be complete without mention of Fresno HSR and the straddling bus.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 10:52 AM   #5226
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Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Whatever trainset they use, that colour scheme has to go.

Nothing wong with blue and yellow I hope they keep it.

Hopefully, LAX and SFO will be linked shortly and then we can really see this take off, and set off chain reactions, more HSR in USA.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 11:01 AM   #5227
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Golden State Warriors colors aren't too bad. Giants colors would probably look good too.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #5228
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Those documents provide for the salvation of mankind. Without them the world will devolve into anarchy and Armageddon. They are truly the most important products of civilization since the Rosetta Stone.
They do provide for the salvation of California. That isn't hyperbole. The state's intercity transportation infrastructure is already beyond its designed capacity. Expanding it will be super expensive. Caltrans estimates it would cost $60 billion to widen CA 99 alone. That is just one freeway from Sac to Bakersfield.

SF to LA is already the nations busiest air corridor and has all the states major airports (except Sacramento) in a capacity crunch with nowhere to expand. So, new airport? There's another $10 billion + right there and that's if you can find a huge patch of undeveloped land to build it on. And that doesn't include the costs of connecting it to the cities.

And, of course, the up front construction costs ignore that those options commit the state to another century of wasteful carbon reliant transportation options and does nothing to help push for an abandonment of the suburban lifestyle paradigm.

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This is going to be "Fresno Area Rapid Transit" for the first century of its existence, maybe longer.
Since you've come back from the future with your time machine. Could you also tell me if I ever actually marry either Emma Watson or Emma Stone? That's kind of important.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:44 PM   #5229
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Elon's Hyperloop
This hyperloop isn't that new at all. The idea looks like the light version of an idea I read in an at least 25 years old book. This book, by Dutch futurologists and illustrators Robbert & Rudolf Das, launched the idea of intercontinental travel with maglevs in underground vacuum tunnels where the cigar shaped trains could reach speeds of 5000+ km/h. Inside were swinging gondolas to keep acceleration and braking forces within reasonable limits. Unfortunately I can't find any pictures on the net at this time.

Edit: It could have been the book "Zicht op de toekomst" (='A view into the future') released in 1983.
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Last edited by M-NL; January 9th, 2015 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Added the likely book title
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Old January 9th, 2015, 07:07 PM   #5230
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This is going to be "Fresno Area Rapid Transit" for the first century of its existence, maybe longer.
I agree that it LOOKS crazy, but there maybe method in the madness. Unless I'm very much mistaken they constructed the Erie Canal in the same way - starting in the middle? The purpose was to prevent either of the two agglomerations at each end of the canal from becoming complacent. The risk was that, once they had received a waterway on their doorstep, their support for the completion of the project would dwindle.

If I'm right then this may not be about providing Fresno with a rapid transit system, but about preventing this line from effectively becoming a RTS for either LA or San Francisco?
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Old January 9th, 2015, 07:24 PM   #5231
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Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
This is going to be "Fresno Area Rapid Transit" for the first century of its existence, maybe longer.
haha.....FART! Love it!
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Old January 9th, 2015, 07:42 PM   #5232
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I agree that it LOOKS crazy, but there maybe method in the madness. Unless I'm very much mistaken they constructed the Erie Canal in the same way - starting in the middle? The purpose was to prevent either of the two agglomerations at each end of the canal from becoming complacent. The risk was that, once they had received a waterway on their doorstep, their support for the completion of the project would dwindle.

If I'm right then this may not be about providing Fresno with a rapid transit system, but about preventing this line from effectively becoming a RTS for either LA or San Francisco?
Yes, starting in the middle does prevent the political machines in the big cities from just pulling support once the shiny new railroad reaches their suburbs. But there is also another practical reason they are starting in Fresno: time.

You see the Federal government gave them $6 billion dollars to build HSR but the catch was that it has to be spent by 2017 or they lose it. None of the other sections were nearly advanced enough in their planning, yet alone engineering, due to the complexity of crossing mountains. Because of the simplicity of the Central Valley route its planning had already reached the advanced stage with nearly 30% of the engineering complete. Therefore it made sense to commit that money, which had to be spent soon, on the only stretch that was actually close to being ready to build.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #5233
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Well in the worst case you'll have a super fast way of getting from Fresno to Bakersfield

I do think more will be built, though.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 02:17 AM   #5234
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How many times must it be said: The rationale for starting construction of CA HSR in the Central Valley is simple and sensible: It is the stretch where the most miles of track can be laid for the money and the one where there are no ongoing legal battles to halt construction. Simple as that. In and around both metros (perhaps it can be said, all four counting Sacramento and San Diego), the courtroom wars are continuing and the service to them requires extensive tunneling. At the moment there simply isn't the cash in hand to dig even one of those tunnels, but there is cash to build a hundred miles or more of track in the flat, rural CV. Finally, both between San Francisco and San Jose, and LA and San Diego, the HSR will use existing track (as a result of lawsuits blocking plans to do otherwise) so that's already there (even if much of it, such as between SF and SJ, needs to be electrified in order for HSR to use it).

Also, that 100+ miles of track, once built, will be perfect for testing rolling stock and other operational aspects of the service.

So let the clowns stop joking about what they clearly don't understand. We should celebrate that the train is starting to roll and, hopefully, momentum will carry it forward once moving.

So who else in North America is actually building true HSR right now?
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Old January 10th, 2015, 05:48 AM   #5235
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Yeah I should point out that right now the route from Burbank to Palmdale is still up on the air. There are five different routes in study and three of them require long base tunnels. They might already have had one route locked down if lawsuits hadn't forced them to keep studying alternatives.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 08:39 PM   #5236
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"I'm all for progress, just not near me" The cry of the NIMBY
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Old January 11th, 2015, 06:47 AM   #5237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee View Post
Finally, both between San Francisco and San Jose, and LA and San Diego, the HSR will use existing track (as a result of lawsuits blocking plans to do otherwise) so that's already there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee View Post
So who else in North America is actually building true HSR right now?
Existing track = true HSR???
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Old January 11th, 2015, 03:49 PM   #5238
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Existing track = true HSR???
Existing RoW + new track = HSR. Not to mention the Central Valley being all new.

Seriously, at this point you are starting to look like a troll on this thread. Please stop.
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Old January 11th, 2015, 06:33 PM   #5239
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I'm not trolling, just expressing a different view. Calm down and drink a beer.

Is it "existing RoW" or "existing track"? I've seen both mentioned here.
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Old January 11th, 2015, 08:28 PM   #5240
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I'm not trolling, just expressing a different view. Calm down and drink a beer.
I am being quite calm. Lots of people, including me, don't drink alcohol. Don't tell people what to do.

You have repeatedly posted disparaging things (using derogatory and at times outright cursing language) without evidence to back them up. That is something that is not productive to the board at minimum and could constitute trolling.


Quote:
Is it "existing RoW" or "existing track"? I've seen both mentioned here.
It's not fully decided in some places.

LA north to Bakersfield will be existing RoW AT MOST along a few straight stretches.

San Jose to San Francisco may share track with some Caltrain EMU services, brought out to 4 tracks for extra capacity.

And don't say that that doesn't make it HSR. The ICE, TGV, ETR, and AVE all use shared trackage in order to access cities. The Channel Tunnel is shared with car shuttles and freight trains.
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