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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 19th, 2015, 11:08 PM   #5301
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so where are your sources?
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Old January 19th, 2015, 11:09 PM   #5302
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WHAT!! NO ONE is getting kicked off their land! In fact the lack of use of eminent domain is why this project is taking this so long!! And why the cost of this project is so high
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Old January 19th, 2015, 11:47 PM   #5303
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it's true and it is no conspiracy theory, it is a fact, they are kicking people off their lands for this scheme, thank god Silver Swordsman and sekelsenmat
are the only ones besides me that is speaking truth.
Even if they WERE "kicking people off of their lands" (which I doubt), the vast majority of the property "takings" are slated to be small slivers of farm land-a few rows of plants are not exactly devastating. Urban segments are intended to follow existing RoW for rail, road, and power as much as possible, or travel underground. And even if they DO take a few houses, that's eminent domain and completely legal so long as it is done in the public interest.

The Interstate Highway System was absolutely DEVASTATING in terms of neighborhood destruction through eminent domain. If you've EVER driven through a city (or large town) on a major highway, you have benefited from "kicking people off of their lands" in a FAR more brutal and widespread manner than what will be necessary for a two-track railroad. For that matter, there is the whole issue of Native Americans which I won't go into further.

Eminent Domain was written into the Bill of Rights as completely legal and permissible so long as fair recompense is made to the victims, as it undoubtedly will here. It is an ancient concept about the needs of the many outweighing the desires of the few and has been employed by EVERY state in history to varying degrees.

If I was told that my property was needed for a new HSR line, I would HAPPILY move, so long as I received just compensation. (although I'd seriously wonder what they were smoking to think that this place needs to be moved for an HSR line given the local terrain and traffic markets )
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Old January 20th, 2015, 01:33 AM   #5304
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So it's Ok to Demolish so many beautiful, quaint, walkable, cultural neighborhoods for highways, but you cant get a couple of NIMBY farmers to give up 2% of their land
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Old January 20th, 2015, 01:49 AM   #5305
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So it's Ok to Demolish so many beautiful, quaint, walkable, cultural neighborhoods for highways, but you cant get a couple of NIMBY farmers to give up 2% of their land
That seems to be what he's saying. I completely disagree with such thoughts and think that the inverse should be true.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 03:53 AM   #5306
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Really not sure why you guys are trying to reason with someone who's had that much Kool-Aid. He's got a different perspective on the world from the rest of us, and we can argue back and forth about how right or wrong we think it is, but fundamentally, we're either not having the same argument, or more likely, speaking in different languages, entirely.

Let's get back to topic, shall we? Are we still stuck with the absurd >$100 billion, ~40 year timeline for a Boston-D.C. high-speed line? Or has someone come up with another idea? Also, how's the Florida rail thing going?
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Old January 20th, 2015, 04:18 AM   #5307
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I think florida is starting construction this year, as for the new NEC that is not going anywhere for a while.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 04:52 AM   #5308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
That seems to be what he's saying. I completely disagree with such thoughts and think that the inverse should be true.
as any sentient being should believe as well
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Old January 20th, 2015, 07:15 AM   #5309
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Florida isn't real HSR. The NEC will happen slowly with upgrades coming over decades. The next big one will possibly be Texas.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 09:59 PM   #5310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post

If I was told that my property was needed for a new HSR line, I would HAPPILY move, so long as I received just compensation. (although I'd seriously wonder what they were smoking to think that this place needs to be moved for an HSR line given the local terrain and traffic markets )
Devil's advocate here for a second.


Say that you bought your house for $750,000, at the peak of the housing bubble. You've made wise investments, and your bank account is in the black. You've also invested privately in renovating your home, an additional $150,000, let's say.

Now the CHSRA is knocking at your door, telling you that your house is in the way of a support pylon--not for the HSR, but for moving a small road that will need to be rerouted due to the train's path.

Based on their estimates on land value (everything has dropped after 2008), they are willing to offer you $350,000 for your home. After telling them that you paid $750,000 for the house and invested another $150k in renovations, they bump it up to $450,000 out of sympathy, but maintain that this area is currently very cheap land due to many foreclosures due to the Financial Crisis.

You try to explain that $450,000 nowhere comes close to buying a new house in the current market, and that this home was everything to you, including retirement, and you request a minimum of $750,000 (the price you paid for the house). The CHSRA agent apologizes that the amount you posted is not valid based on depreciation and inflation, as well as the fact that their funds are limited.

You are an electronics engineer, with no experience in finance.

Now, would you accept, or would you sue?
















Basically, this is the nightmare that all NIMBYs face.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 11:14 PM   #5311
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So the nightmare that all Nimbys face is realizing that that they made a mistake in buying at the top? Or is it the nightmare that realizing that their granite countertops and Miele dishwashers were a bad decision they made when assuming that the cheap loans they got to renovate would continue forever.

They get above market value and would not have to list the property or deal with real Estate fees. If their house is worth 350,000 I'm sure they can find an equivalent or better house for that price. Sure there's a cost to move but that's taken into account.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 03:44 AM   #5312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Devil's advocate here for a second.


Say that you bought your house for $750,000, at the peak of the housing bubble. You've made wise investments, and your bank account is in the black. You've also invested privately in renovating your home, an additional $150,000, let's say.

Now the CHSRA is knocking at your door, telling you that your house is in the way of a support pylon--not for the HSR, but for moving a small road that will need to be rerouted due to the train's path.

Based on their estimates on land value (everything has dropped after 2008), they are willing to offer you $350,000 for your home. After telling them that you paid $750,000 for the house and invested another $150k in renovations, they bump it up to $450,000 out of sympathy, but maintain that this area is currently very cheap land due to many foreclosures due to the Financial Crisis.

You try to explain that $450,000 nowhere comes close to buying a new house in the current market, and that this home was everything to you, including retirement, and you request a minimum of $750,000 (the price you paid for the house). The CHSRA agent apologizes that the amount you posted is not valid based on depreciation and inflation, as well as the fact that their funds are limited.

You are an electronics engineer, with no experience in finance.

Now, would you accept, or would you sue?

Basically, this is the nightmare that all NIMBYs face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
So the nightmare that all Nimbys face is realizing that that they made a mistake in buying at the top? Or is it the nightmare that realizing that their granite countertops and Miele dishwashers were a bad decision they made when assuming that the cheap loans they got to renovate would continue forever.

They get above market value and would not have to list the property or deal with real Estate fees. If their house is worth 350,000 I'm sure they can find an equivalent or better house for that price. Sure there's a cost to move but that's taken into account.
This. BMG shows what my family has done with property. Carefully examined market trends and done our best to avoid buying in bubbles. We ended up taking a loss in Manhattan for 20+ years before selling out and making money.

The important thing is to pay attention to the local government and find out whether there is ANYTHING being planned that might impact your house. In that case, sell early or DON'T BUY. Be thrifty and don't spend unnecessarily on luxury items like pools (they don't bring back their money on sale).0
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Old January 21st, 2015, 02:05 PM   #5313
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My understanding of much of the lawsuits is that the disputes center around the notion that attempting to purchase some parcels of land either diminishes the value on others surrounding it or reduces their usefulness (largely, agricultural), which resulted in owners trying to get the authority to either buy their entire lot or else they were disputing that an alternative could be chosen that would eliminate the takings to begin with.

Then there was the whole BS about the business plan being in violation of the voter proposition.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 07:16 PM   #5314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Devil's advocate here for a second.

Based on their estimates on land value (everything has dropped after 2008), they are willing to offer you $350,000 for your home. After telling them that you paid $750,000 for the house and invested another $150k in renovations, they bump it up to $450,000 out of sympathy, but maintain that this area is currently very cheap land due to many foreclosures due to the Financial Crisis.
The price you paid has nothing to do in this equation. Adequate compensation means that with the money you get, you can buy someting of similar size, location, condition and equipment. If the local prices have been
correctly surveyed, there is no reason this shouldn't be the case.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 08:08 PM   #5315
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Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise View Post
I Think this is all a plan for the UN Agenda 21 to be pushed down our throats, people need to wake up.
Sadly a lot of the people opposing the project believe in the conspiracy crap about Agenda 21.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Devil's advocate here for a second.


Say that you bought your house for $750,000, at the peak of the housing bubble. You've made wise investments, and your bank account is in the black. You've also invested privately in renovating your home, an additional $150,000, let's say.

Now the CHSRA is knocking at your door, telling you that your house is in the way of a support pylon--not for the HSR, but for moving a small road that will need to be rerouted due to the train's path.

Based on their estimates on land value (everything has dropped after 2008), they are willing to offer you $350,000 for your home. After telling them that you paid $750,000 for the house and invested another $150k in renovations, they bump it up to $450,000 out of sympathy, but maintain that this area is currently very cheap land due to many foreclosures due to the Financial Crisis.

You try to explain that $450,000 nowhere comes close to buying a new house in the current market, and that this home was everything to you, including retirement, and you request a minimum of $750,000 (the price you paid for the house). The CHSRA agent apologizes that the amount you posted is not valid based on depreciation and inflation, as well as the fact that their funds are limited.

You are an electronics engineer, with no experience in finance.

Now, would you accept, or would you sue?
Well, you could sue but it won't do you any good. So far not one of the lawsuits has benefited the plaintiffs. Just sucked a lot of money into the coffers of lawfirms.

And that specific situation of the house being in the way of an easily movable component has already played out. Check out the change in designs from the Draft EIR's to the actual RFP's. Numerous designs were altered so as to avoid homes.

But the reality is that most of the lawsuits are't from people looking to save a family home. They are from big corporate farmers who don't even live in the area.

And if that is the situation, well it sucks but life kind of sucks in general. Welcome to the suck club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
My understanding of much of the lawsuits is that the disputes center around the notion that attempting to purchase some parcels of land either diminishes the value on others surrounding it or reduces their usefulness (largely, agricultural), which resulted in owners trying to get the authority to either buy their entire lot or else they were disputing that an alternative could be chosen that would eliminate the takings to begin with.

Then there was the whole BS about the business plan being in violation of the voter proposition.
This is claimed in many of the lawsuits but others really just have an agenda. Having talked to one of the main plaintiffs it is clear he has bought into Tea Party koolaid and just thinks trains=communism while Real Americansô drive pick up trucks. He actually said once that the more trains we have the easier it will be for the socialists to load up the Christians into railcars for delivery to the extermination camps.

You can't really reason with such people.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 08:23 PM   #5316
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Sadly a lot of the people opposing the project believe in the conspiracy crap about Agenda 21.
B.S., it is the truth, wake up, both democrips and rebloodlicans support this.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 09:13 PM   #5317
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"Sigh" I'm tired of this. I'm going to go back to discussing high speed rail if you want to discuss the threats of what ever howl at the moon theories you believe in create a separate forum and debate it there.
So on that note anyone have any pictures of construction from out in California or Florida maybe or any news of any projects that may be in the "pipeline"?
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Old January 24th, 2015, 07:08 AM   #5318
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Quote:
Sigh" I'm tired of this. I'm going to go back to discussing high speed rail if you want to discuss the threats of what ever howl at the moon theories you believe in create a separate forum and debate it there.
So on that note anyone have any pictures of construction from out in California or Florida maybe or any news of any projects that may be in the "pipeline"?
^THIS

Let's get this topic back on track to a discussion of construction activity and, more importantly, pictures of that construction activity.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #5319
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^THIS

Let's get this topic back on track to a discussion of construction activity and, more importantly, pictures of that construction activity.
I think we are still waiting for the NTP (Notice to Proceed). Likely, they are going over the CP details, since it's essentially a contract. Once they've fully reviewed, amended anything/accepted the terms, they'll officially accept it.

Until then, we won't see/hear much of anything.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #5320
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Quote:
I think we are still waiting for the NTP (Notice to Proceed). Likely, they are going over the CP details, since it's essentially a contract. Once they've fully reviewed, amended anything/accepted the terms, they'll officially accept it.

Until then, we won't see/hear much of anything.
Any idea of how long that will take?
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