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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 6th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #5341
NergiZed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
California has requirements that the rolling stock be in service accident-free for at least five years. China doesn't have that.
China will have that in 18 months.

Considering how slow the Californian HSR progress is going, Japan will have a functioning commercial High-speed Mag-lev before California has HSR.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 09:20 PM   #5342
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Any thoughts?
another reason to get out of these so-called free trade agreements.

let's build high speed rail for made in america, not china.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #5343
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Originally Posted by sdery View Post
Most (if not all) the HSR projects in the US have local build requirements for the highspeed train sets. I'm not sure how willing or able the Chinese are to move the manufacturing process to the US as this might limit their price competitiveness.

The fact that the Chinese government is also discouraging the purchase of US IT products in China might also result in a US government retaliation by not considering Chinese train set manufacturers.
When China first pitched HSR to US five years ago the proposal was already setting up JV manufacturing in CONUS with GE.

To your second point, the new IT equipment restriction itself is a retaliation to US banning Chinese IT firms from participating in various US sectors.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 11:01 PM   #5344
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Any thoughts?
talks are just talks. With the current US political envirenment, it will remain just talks. The Chinese knows it, the Americans knows it as well. At best, Chinese bid will be used to pressure other parties to lower their price, at worst it's just a waste of time and money for everyone, and enable offical to hold meetings in nice hotels and dine on fine foods.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 01:14 AM   #5345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NergiZed View Post
China will have that in 18 months.

Considering how slow the Californian HSR progress is going, Japan will have a functioning commercial High-speed Mag-lev before California has HSR.
A) The closure date on that time period has passed (I believe that it was ending August 2014) since the bidding process is already underway.

B) China wasn't accident free in that time.

C) California HSR will beat the Chuo maglev based on current projections.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 01:40 AM   #5346
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Have to agree with luhai. Almost every company (or nation) will throw their hat into a big project like this. It may merely be symbolic, it may not. Several years ago there was a business agreement between GE and one of the big Chinese rolling stock makers, with talk about GE getting high speed rail technology from the Chinese. Nothing seems to be coming of that. I suspect it was merely polite talk, and the main part (99%) of the deal was GE selling more of their heavy freight locomotives to China Railways.

The Chinese approach is to low-ball bid, which works with corrupt U.S. transit agencies and local governments, but it may be more difficult with a higher profile project like HSR that receives more public scrutiny. As luhai says, at best it may serve to force the middle tier (Korean) and high end (European and Japanese) builders to lower their bids.

Last edited by k.k.jetcar; February 7th, 2015 at 01:47 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 03:04 AM   #5347
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Ummm doesn't being accident free go by rolling stock and NOT the number of accidents on China's HSR. Their certainly has to be at least 1 type of Chinese High Speed Train Set that's accident free (still 18 months left).

Yeah the political climate sucks a** especially when you have some people in Texas trying to prevent privetly developed HSR. Nimbys can be rationalized but some people in Texas wanna go as far preventing the state of Texas from allowing the use of immenent Domain to be used to acquire property for HSR lines.

Its too bad really Texas along with Ohio and Pennsylvania are states that could easily have had the first phases of regional HSR lines as of now we get more talking except for Texas at least.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 03:07 AM   #5348
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Considering that price has been arguably the hot-button issue throughout the entire CAHSR process (and is with basically everything in this jaded country), I think the Korean bid stands the best chance, especially if they can get their new EMU units ready for deployment in time. They're likely to offer the best balance between cost and quality, even though they can't match the name recognition of the Shinkansen.

In any case, I agree that a Chinese bid wouldn't be seriously considered, both for political reasons and the issue of selling a system that's recently had a major fatal accident in the recent past. Germany may have the Eschede disaster, but that was long enough ago that people don't know about it, and besides, Germany obviously has a better reputation for quality products than China. Spain has the same issue as China in terms of public perception due to Santiago de Compostela, but I'm not sure where French or Italian bids would fall in the ranking.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 04:01 AM   #5349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Considering that price has been arguably the hot-button issue throughout the entire CAHSR process (and is with basically everything in this jaded country), I think the Korean bid stands the best chance, especially if they can get their new EMU units ready for deployment in time. They're likely to offer the best balance between cost and quality, even though they can't match the name recognition of the Shinkansen.
Unfortunately the Korean HS rolling stocks had been myriad with various service accidents. Although they had no fatalities, I do not think they will clear that clause.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 04:02 AM   #5350
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The last time I saw the official documents, they were including things like quality and life-cycle costs. Korea's EMU won't be ready in time.

At last check the leading contender was the N700, followed by the Velaro.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 03:56 PM   #5351
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I think the signaling and other technologies are also really important to a potential bid, no?
More than the actual price of the rolling stock, I think they'll be more keen to choose a bid that has the potential to offer a "complete" package.

In any case, the way JRE is handling through running seems to have caught the agency's eye (and, going off of the previous attempt to coordinate procurement with Amtrak, I wonder if they weren't aggressively pursuing the E5/6 trains from the outset).

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Old February 7th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #5352
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I guess that wouldn't be too surprising. Particularly if they're looking for a totally clean service record, doesn't that just leave the Japanese and the French? Toss in the fact that all of the renderings and videos look like they're using 700 Series Shinkansen, and maybe there won't be much of a "bid" at all.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 06:17 PM   #5353
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There should be a serious bidding if for no other reason than to keep down the price.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 05:47 AM   #5354
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It'll all come down to financing, if the Japanese can finance it then there really won't be any competition.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 11:28 AM   #5355
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I hope for California, and I sure think they will, is to demand the manufacturer to build the trains in the state with American labour. The best solution would be to build a train factory, be it French (Alstom), German (Siemens) or Japanese (Hitachi) right in the Fresno/Bakersfield area where after construction they could also do heavy maintenance during the entire lifetime of the fleet. Small maintenance can be done in the Bay and Basin. This approach will allow the generation of many direct and indirect quality jobs in the central valley during construction time and the future.

The Dutch HSL-Zuid was build by contracting only the building company's in the state, generating jobs. This reduces the unemployment rates and thus the line is already beneficial to the country from day 1 of construction.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 12:24 PM   #5356
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Wasn't Dutch HSL also one of the most expensive lines ever built?

Of course longer term trains ought to be built in US, but right now is there a demand already to justify a factory? Plus perhaps some of the train manufacturers might already have factories in US so there is no need to build another one. The more restrictions you put the more expensive a project is going to be...
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Old February 8th, 2015, 12:30 PM   #5357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sekelsenmat View Post
high speed rail in USA is a bad joke. Already 5 years ago I said they should have started building in the part Los Angeles - Central Valley. If they had done that, they could have something working. The way it currently it, they might build the valley part and then run out of funds and leave an useless skeleton.
Is it a joke? The Valley section is the cheapest part of the network and the longest available stretch that allows for higher speeds without excessive investments from day 1.

If you have trains from LA to SF every hour and they use this section of line, then you not only introduce a rail service between these areas but also let Californians experience what is "common" all over Europe and Asia.

Not having the entire route that allows for high speed has an effect on the price tag of the service. Get it under those of the airlines and people will ride.

Furthermore, I think that many will get a great fealing when they realise they're speeding through their state at such speeds.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 12:34 PM   #5358
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Wasn't Dutch HSL also one of the most expensive lines ever built?
Yes it is. But it has to do with the fact that is is build in the most dense populated country in Europe and they choose to build an 8 kilometre long tunnel under an area of outstanding natural beauty.
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Old February 10th, 2015, 12:22 AM   #5359
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Despite the prevailing negativity, I a still very surprised the dense North East, Florida, California, Texas, Illinois Michigan Ohio area, and maybe even some other areas aren't already crawling with HSR
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Old February 10th, 2015, 10:03 AM   #5360
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Despite the prevailing negativity, I a still very surprised the dense North East, Florida, California, Texas, Illinois Michigan Ohio area, and maybe even some other areas aren't already crawling with HSR
Comes down to lack of Federal funding , they rather bomb the Middle East then spend billions on HSR...
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