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Old April 8th, 2016, 04:22 AM   #6301
Smooth Indian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Dude View Post
American freight companies are too cheap to install electrification, also it would require them to abandon current loading gauges which are specifically designed to move massive amounts of freight, which is very profitable. So yes diesel, really.
I think it is possible to have electrification at current loading gauges and double stack operation. Its just that all this needs capital investment to electrify the lines and purchase electric/electrodiesel locomotives. And I am not sure then railway companies have made such huge investments in the last several decades. Its just easy to maintain the status quo.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 05:49 AM   #6302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
I think it is possible to have electrification at current loading gauges and double stack operation. Its just that all this needs capital investment to electrify the lines and purchase electric/electrodiesel locomotives. And I am not sure then railway companies have made such huge investments in the last several decades. Its just easy to maintain the status quo.
There are a few sections of the SEPTA regional rail network that share there trackage with double stacked freight trains. The wires are abit higher to allow for the freight clearances...but nothing to complex is needed..
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Old April 8th, 2016, 05:52 AM   #6303
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Old April 8th, 2016, 05:53 AM   #6304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Diesel? Really?
Those Brightline trains are our equivalent of InterCity 125s ... 30 years later.
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Originally Posted by Tower Dude View Post
American freight companies are too cheap to install electrification, also it would require them to abandon current loading gauges which are specifically designed to move massive amounts of freight, which is very profitable. So yes diesel, really.
It's somewhat more complex than that. Electrification is really expensive. So expensive, in fact, that one could argue that their attempt to electrify the Pacific Extension was what doomed the Milwaukee Road, in the end. Most railroad electrification projects globally are backed by national rail corporations and other state mechanisms, which don't really have the profit requirement US railroads do.

If oil prices were sustained at a rate where the freight railroads decided the long-term cost savings were worth the enormous upfront capital of electrification (didn't Warren Buffet say that would be if oil cost $5/gal or something?) then you would almost certainly start to see the freight railroads start to electrify their systems at a furious rate.
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I think those diesel loco info should be in the conventional US railway thread.
Is the InterCity 125 a conventional train or a high-speed train?
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Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
There are a few sections of the SEPTA regional rail network that share there trackage with double stacked freight trains. The wires are abit higher to allow for the freight clearances...but nothing to complex is needed..
I've also heard of double-stacks moved under wire in China ... there's no technical constraint against having a clearance standard capable of handling that.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 06:28 AM   #6305
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You have to remember that we're talking about hundreds to thousands of miles for each major route in the US. That's a LOT of wire. And then you have to worry about flexibility-if you have an accident on an electric line it is rather harder to detour the trains unless ALL the lines are electric, which is another fortune.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 06:53 AM   #6306
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Is there really that much of an advantage of electrifying freight lines? Most of the advantages are really relevant only for passenger trains. Of course unless the oil prices are vastly higher than they are now.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 09:16 AM   #6307
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Old April 10th, 2016, 11:49 PM   #6308
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Looks like our french TGV
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Old April 11th, 2016, 03:15 AM   #6309
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Looks like our french TGV
Too bad it cant MOVE like your French TGV
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Old April 11th, 2016, 03:22 AM   #6310
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Is there really that much of an advantage of electrifying freight lines? Most of the advantages are really relevant only for passenger trains. Of course unless the oil prices are vastly higher than they are now.
Electric locomotives generally can be more powerful than comparable diesel electric locomotives on per ton of loco weight basis. They generally perform better on challenging gradients such as Cowan bank in NSW, Australia or Cranberry Grade in WV, USA. For high density freight routes using electric traction would reduce fuel use with associated savings for the railroad companies. The low crude prices make diesel more attractive now but that won't be the case in the long term.
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Old April 11th, 2016, 07:26 AM   #6311
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Old April 11th, 2016, 09:48 AM   #6312
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Holy crap water in the Fresno River.
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Old April 13th, 2016, 06:39 AM   #6313
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It's somewhat more complex than that. Electrification is really expensive. So expensive, in fact, that one could argue that their attempt to electrify the Pacific Extension was what doomed the Milwaukee Road, in the end.
It would be far easier to argue that the mistake was not taking up the GE project to both upgrade the existing electrification segments as well as electrifying the section between the two existing segments for around $34 million at the time (1971 I think) and instead having it all de-energised and spending the same money instead on SD-40s right when the oil crisis hit. Having to run the diesel fleet right through with additional electric units for those sections was definitely not efficient fleet management, and having the section from Tacoma right through to Harlowtown electrified would have given a far better result from both fleet utilisation and maintenance points of view.

Cheers,

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Old April 16th, 2016, 08:03 AM   #6314
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Old April 17th, 2016, 03:01 PM   #6315
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MARC MultiLevel 125MPH Speed Qualification Test Train @ Princeton JCT

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Old April 17th, 2016, 03:32 PM   #6316
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Huh.

So were the Kawasaki multilevels already certified for 125? And why did they need to certify the MARC Bombardier cars? Didn't they already test the identical NJTransit multilevels?
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Old April 18th, 2016, 06:29 AM   #6317
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Huh.

So were the Kawasaki multilevels already certified for 125? And why did they need to certify the MARC Bombardier cars? Didn't they already test the identical NJTransit multilevels?
I'm sure fan railer knows the answer to this..
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Old April 19th, 2016, 03:10 PM   #6318
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Bill O'Reilly bashed Airline companies and supports High Speed Rail. Didn't see that one coming.

(at 3:48)
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Old April 19th, 2016, 07:57 PM   #6319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulbous View Post
It would be far easier to argue that the mistake was not taking up the GE project to both upgrade the existing electrification segments as well as electrifying the section between the two existing segments for around $34 million at the time (1971 I think) and instead having it all de-energised and spending the same money instead on SD-40s right when the oil crisis hit. Having to run the diesel fleet right through with additional electric units for those sections was definitely not efficient fleet management, and having the section from Tacoma right through to Harlowtown electrified would have given a far better result from both fleet utilisation and maintenance points of view.

Cheers,

Matt
Hah I am well-versed in the story of the Milwaukee's epic mismanagement. Going from "most profitable transcon" to "bankrupt" in a decade takes more than just incompetence, it takes a sort of anti-competence where total incompetents would do a better job than you.

The argument I'm referencing is essentially that the initial electrification project in the '20s destroyed the Milwaukee's long-term capital reserves. Unlike, say, the Rock Island, which was able to keep running some 20ish years after it became functionally insolvent (it last posted a profit in the late '50s IIRC), the Milwaukee simply didn't have the reserves necessary to weather storms.
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Old April 20th, 2016, 07:43 AM   #6320
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The NJT multilevels are NOT certified for 125. The ALP-45s are (or at least they were tested with the Amtrak Viewliners. MARC is certifying theirs now because they actually run their Penn Line trains at 125, and would like to use the MLVs on that line with the electric locomotives. When it comes time, NJT will have to run their own 125 certification tests on their MLVs.
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