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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 11th, 2017, 11:14 AM   #6781
phoenixboi08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negjana View Post
Why does a line through the desert take 18 years to get built?
2035 is the expected connection of XpressWest to CAHSR (e.g. the 11 million riders figure) - the latter of which is not scheduled to complete the Bakersfield-Palmdale-LA section until 2029; although, probably sooner.

The article clearly states the projected completion of the trunk line (e.g. the 3 million riders figure) to Las Vegas is 2021.

No one knows what the plans are for Palmdale, as no preferred alternative has been selected. Those dates will continue to shift.

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Old April 11th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #6782
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When the Chinese were, it called DesertXpress, they will be 370 km of line for a top speed of 241 km/h.
Make a note of they announced their start-up for 2016.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 06:51 PM   #6783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
2035 is the expected connection of XpressWest to CAHSR (e.g. the 11 million riders figure) - the latter of which is not scheduled to complete the Bakersfield-Palmdale-LA section until 2029; although, probably sooner.

The article clearly states the projected completion of the trunk line (e.g. the 3 million riders figure) to Las Vegas is 2021.

No one knows what the plans are for Palmdale, as no preferred alternative has been selected. Those dates will continue to shift.

Why won't they build the XpressWest line to Los Angeles? Looks like they don't want too many people to use this. Driving almost 2 hours to catch a high speed train makes no sense. Time to contract China to build our high speed rail system. They would get this line done in a jiffy.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #6784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Why won't they build the XpressWest line to Los Angeles? Looks like they don't want too many people to use this. Driving almost 2 hours to catch a high speed train makes no sense. Time to contract China to build our high speed rail system. They would get this line done in a jiffy.
....they are connecting it to the LA. That's the entire premise of the line...
They're piggy-backing off the initial operating segment of CAHSR, but obviously can't do so until the Bakersfield-LA portion is actually built.

As such, they are waiting until the Authority decides on a preferred route through Palmdale to decide how to best connect to the system.

Also, if you actually follow news on HSR projects, closely, you'd know that China hasn't actually successfully built any HSR project abroad, yet. In fact, it's pretty clear CNR/CSR and XpressWest probably couldn't agree on revenue guarantees/profit-sharing in negotiating the terms of investment.

The problem isn't financial, it's almost always regulatory (e.g. land acquisition).

HSR gets built fast in China because the government essentially owns most of the land - as well as the institutions providing funding/financing - and the profits resulting from the sale/development of said land. Entirely unique context. It's also important to remember that most of the lines being constructed now are filling gaps and that the initial trunk lines (e.g. Beijing-Shanghai), took several decades from conception and planning to construction and operation; they simply planned an entire network and built it out (as we are seeing attempts at, here)

In any case, Chinese firms have yet to recreate this context, abroad - precisely because of the necessary changes to regulatory frameworks governing private property rights that would be wholly unpalatable to most (see also: property owners protesting CAHSR, TXCentral, All Aboard Florida, etc).

Long story short; the "China could do this fast" posts are uninformed and getting old.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 02:08 AM   #6785
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UNITED STATES | High Speed Rail

For me... Japan dropping out of this project (Cahsr) spells trouble. This will be a hobbled system from the get go. Looks like Texas will have the best system in the country. One cohesive profitable system. Imagine that.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/v...lway/20170407/
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Old April 12th, 2017, 06:19 AM   #6786
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A. Texas Central has yet to start construction; it's hard to say it'll end up better when it hasn't even begun.
B. I'd be quite willing to bet that, with the leeway given private industry ventures and the all-too-common backlash against public enterprises in this country, ill will will end up mattering as much as any merit one way or the other. This goes for both public and political sentiment (no one's blind to the president's tragically-ironic opinion on these things)
C. We all know that sometimes private industry isn't willing to invest in projects because they won't be financially-profitable, even if there are many other things to recommend those projects.
D. California is hilly, the route CAHSR is going through is far more populated--and to its credit, the system is intending to include city-center stations in many cities--and the system as a whole will be serving basically all of the population of California, not the two big cities the Texas system is designed for.
E. CAHSR is also designed to include improvements to currently-existing rail systems--namely Caltrans in Silicon Valley and LA Union Station.

Sorry, but a point-to-point HSR line serving ~13 million versus an entire HSR system serving >30 million is not an apples-to-oranges comparison.

CAHSR is troubled, no doubt, but name for me an ambitious plan which is perfect and has no detractors or doubters. Go ahead.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #6787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
For me... Japan dropping out of this project (Cahsr) spells trouble. This will be a hobbled system from the get go. Looks like Texas will have the best system in the country. One cohesive profitable system. Imagine that.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/v...lway/20170407/
Isn't Kawasaki Heavy and Hitachi still in the game?
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Old April 12th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #6788
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CHSRA

It is on the previous page:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
...
In February 2015 were tendered the first 15 trains (out of a total of 95) began, each for € 52.23 million with 30 years of maintenance (very cheap, I think, we will see) with 9 manufacturers: Alstom (AGV), Bombardier (Zefiro 380), CRRC (China Railway Rolling Stock Corporation: CRH380A), Hitachi (AT400), Hyundai Rotem (HEMU 430X), Kawasaki (N700-i as Taiwan), Siemens (Velaro) CRRC (CNR Tangshan: CRH380B), and Talgo (Avril). They ask for 350 km/h (389 in tests), 30 years of minimum duration, 450 seats in a single floor, Cafeteria, 210 meters, 88 dB at 25 meters at 249 km/h and 96 db to 350.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 08:41 PM   #6789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post

A. Texas Central has yet to start construction; it's hard to say it'll end up better when it hasn't even begun.

B. I'd be quite willing to bet that, with the leeway given private industry ventures and the all-too-common backlash against public enterprises in this country, ill will will end up mattering as much as any merit one way or the other. This goes for both public and political sentiment (no one's blind to the president's tragically-ironic opinion on these things)
C. We all know that sometimes private industry isn't willing to invest in projects because they won't be financially-profitable, even if there are many other things to recommend those projects.
D. California is hilly, the route CAHSR is going through is far more populated--and to its credit, the system is intending to include city-center stations in many cities--and the system as a whole will be serving basically all of the population of California, not the two big cities the Texas system is designed for.
True, But it's actually going to connect the cities in Texas.
[/quote]
E. CAHSR is also designed to include improvements to currently-existing rail systems--namely Caltrans in Silicon Valley and LA Union Station.[/quote]
It feels like they've bitten off more than they can chew.
Quote:
Sorry, but a point-to-point HSR line serving ~13 million versus an entire HSR system serving >30 million is not an apples-to-oranges comparison.

CAHSR is troubled, no doubt, but name for me an ambitious plan which is perfect and has no detractors or doubters. Go ahead.

Maybe, but in the end HSR IS point to point. The vast majority are goi g for. One city to the other. You get in trouble when you have to pander to small towns along the way.

Don't get me wrong, I have high hope for CAHSR... I just feel like everyone in California wants to kill it.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 10:33 PM   #6790
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But if everyone in California wanted to kill it, it would've been stopped by now. I'm guessing that we're seeing--as we seem to be seeing more and more everywhere, these days--is just that the voices which want to kill it are louder (or given more attention) than those that don't.

And I guess you could consider CAHSR a point-to-point system (LA-SF), but then there are two very long "spur lines" from LA to San Diego and Stockton to Sacramento, with the train to Las Vegas being a strong possibility, as well.

If even those who want CAHSR begin to talk it down and disregard it as a possibility, it's going to be that much easier for it to not end up happening.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 10:57 PM   #6791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
But if everyone in California wanted to kill it, it would've been stopped by now. I'm guessing that we're seeing--as we seem to be seeing more and more everywhere, these days--is just that the voices which want to kill it are louder (or given more attention) than those that don't.

And I guess you could consider CAHSR a point-to-point system (LA-SF), but then there are two very long "spur lines" from LA to San Diego and Stockton to Sacramento, with the train to Las Vegas being a strong possibility, as well.

If even those who want CAHSR begin to talk it down and disregard it as a possibility, it's going to be that much easier for it to not end up happening.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's a point to point system, but it's not connecting those points very well.

You can't spend a tonne of money on something and then only have modest improvements in the middle of the line.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 11:04 PM   #6792
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???

The middle of the line is going to be entirely brand-new.

The end points are going to get massive improvements.

The only segments where the HSR will be sharing an older alignment that creates any real restrictions will be San Jose-San Francisco and Los Angeles-Anaheim. Everything else will be new.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 10:25 PM   #6793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
I guess what I'm saying is that it's a point to point system, but it's not connecting those points very well.

You can't spend a tonne of money on something and then only have modest improvements in the middle of the line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
???

The middle of the line is going to be entirely brand-new.

The end points are going to get massive improvements.

The only segments where the HSR will be sharing an older alignment that creates any real restrictions will be San Jose-San Francisco and Los Angeles-Anaheim. Everything else will be new.
Quite a few HSRs are built that way. The end sections in heavily urbanized areas are shared with or alongside conventional commuter/suburban trains while the much longer middle section running through semi-urban or rural areas is an entirely new section i.e Paris-Lyon
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Old April 14th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #6794
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...and that's sort of my point.
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Old April 30th, 2017, 11:18 AM   #6795
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CHSRA operators short list

NOTICE OF SHORTLIST RFQ16-13
Early Train Operator
The Authority has completed its evaluation of all Statements of Qualifications submitted in response to the Early Train Operator Request for Qualifications (RFQ16-13). The Authority has determined that the following teams have submitted qualified Statements of Qualifications and will be invited to participate in the second phase Request for Proposals (RFP16-13) once the RFP is released. The teams on the shortlist are listed in alphabetical order:

China HSR ETO Consortium
China Railway International Co., Ltd
Beijing Railway Administration
China Railway Eryuan Engineering Group Co., Ltd
China Railway Corporation

DB International USA
DB International USA Inc.
Deutsche Bahn AG
Alternate Concepts, Inc.
HSR, Inc.

FS First Rail Group
Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane S.p.A.
FirstGroup America Inc.
First Transit Inc.
Trenitalia
Rete Ferroviaria Italiana S.p.A.
CentoStazioni S.p.A.
Italferr S.p.A.
McKinsey & Company, Inc.

Renfe
RENFE-Operadora
Globalvia Inversiones S.A.U.
Adif

Stagecoach Group plc
Stagecoach Group plc
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Old April 30th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #6796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Why won't they build the XpressWest line to Los Angeles? Looks like they don't want too many people to use this. Driving almost 2 hours to catch a high speed train makes no sense.
Turns out there's something in the way.
Quote:
Time to contract China to build our high speed rail system. They would get this line done in a jiffy.
While I agree that -- even without excessive Republican obstruction -- our planning process is molasses-fast relative to the rest of the developed and developing world, I am highly dubious that China could get it done faster. They've been having more success exporting highway projects (which we're pretty good at) than rail ones.
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Old May 1st, 2017, 04:14 AM   #6797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post

China: HSR ETO Consortium

Germany: Deutsche Bahn and American subsidiary DB International USA Inc., Massachusetts-based Alternate Concepts Inc. and HDR Inc., based in Nebraska.

Italy/UK: FS First Rail Group, which includes Italian firms Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane S.p.A., Trenitalia, Rete Ferroviaria Italiana S.p.A., CentoStazioni S.p.A. and Italferr S.p.A.

Spain: Renfe, Adif and Globalvía (Concessionary)

UK: Stagecoah and its American subsidiary Coach USA Administration Inc.; a Scottish company operating jointly with Virgin in United Kingdom, what experience do you have at high speed? HS2 requires five years of high-speed experience.
It is good to see that all five of the applicants passed the Request for Qualifications test.

It would have been very embarrassing to be deemed unfit to even respond to the Request for Proposal.
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Old May 1st, 2017, 06:26 AM   #6798
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Jesus Christ why doesnt the HSR line go between SAN FRANCISCO and LOS ANGELES? Not between two obscure towns nobody gives a damn about.
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Old May 1st, 2017, 03:01 PM   #6799
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Quote:
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Jesus Christ why doesnt the HSR line go between SAN FRANCISCO and LOS ANGELES? Not between two obscure towns nobody gives a damn about.
Why is the sky blue?
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Old May 1st, 2017, 03:06 PM   #6800
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Jesus Christ why doesnt the HSR line go between SAN FRANCISCO and LOS ANGELES? Not between two obscure towns nobody gives a damn about.
Probably because it's easier to build a HSR line in the Valley than digging tunnels through the Coast Ranges. And, with a metro pop. of 1 million, I wouldn't call Fresno an "obscure town".
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