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Old October 10th, 2017, 09:34 AM   #6901
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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
the body shape of the power car and the first passenger car differ so much, that they visibly misalign. I hope they will fix that.
This is a strange feature. Non of the current Pendolino , AGV or TGV train designs have this type of misalignment between power car and the first passenger car.

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Old October 10th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #6902
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There is also a misalignment on double deck TGVs, albeit far less pronounced: TGV 2N2 and TGV Duplex.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #6903
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There is also a misalignment on double deck TGVs, albeit far less pronounced: TGV 2N2 and TGV Duplex.
Misalignment on double deck TGV is due to extra height of the passenger car. But there is no reason for Avalia liberty to have such misalignment between power car and the first passenger car.It could negatively effect on aerodynamics of the train.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #6904
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I noticed the same thing on the new Brightline trains too
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Old October 12th, 2017, 08:48 AM   #6905
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Production of next-generation Acela Express fleet underway



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Production of the bodyshells and principal components for the Avelia Liberty high speed trainsets ordered for Amtrak’s premium Acela Express service has begun at Alstom’s Hornell factory in New York state, the manufacturer has confirmed. The fleet is expected to enter service in 2021-22. Alstom displayed a model at the APTA Expo in Atlanta on October 8-11, showcasing the final exterior design of the trainsets, which will feature short wheelbase power cars and nine articulated trailer cars. There is an option to add up to three more vehicles if demand grows.
Designed for operation at up to 300 km/h, the 28 trainsets will initially enter service at up to 255 km/h on the 735 km Northeast Corridor which links Boston with New York and Washington DC.
They will incorporate Alstom’s Tiltronix anticipatory tilting technology, and a crash energy management system meeting the latest Federal Railroad Administration crashworthiness guidelines.
Alstom’s Vice-President for Marketing & Strategy in North America Scott Sherin told Railway Gazette that the Avelia Liberty design blended experience from various high speed trains supplied internationally over recent years.
The trailers are based on the AGV bodyshell used in Italy and the tilt equipment is derived from our Pendolino family, while we expect the compact power car design to be selected for SNCF’s next generation of TGVs’, he said. By opting for power cars with unpowered intermediate trailers, Alstom has continued the arrangement used for the existing fleet of 20 Acela Express trains supplied by a consortium of Alstom and Bombardier in 1998-2001.
‘Amtrak initially favoured a Pendolino derivative’, Sherin explained, but ‘we were able to persuade them otherwise, partly because a move to a multiple-unit fleet would require significant alterations to depot facilities’. The Avelia Liberty is also designed to allow extra intermediate cars to be added without any mechanical or electrical alterations to the train.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #6906
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Source: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/t...-underway.html
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Old October 12th, 2017, 11:59 AM   #6907
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Isn't the odd profile difference down to the tilt? i.e. the cars will tilt but the power cars don't
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Old October 13th, 2017, 03:07 AM   #6908
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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:31 AM   #6909
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Odd to show CAHSR and LA's Metrolink commuter rail service during a news segment about Texas HSR. You'd think TxHSR would have animations or at least renderings of their own . . .
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Old October 13th, 2017, 09:59 AM   #6910
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Isn't the odd profile difference down to the tilt? i.e. the cars will tilt but the power cars don't
That triggers two comments:
Will the driver get sports buckets and seat belts to stay in his seat during cornering, because of that?

Have you ever stuck your hand out of the window of a train or car at speed? Even at 80 km/h you feel a considerable force. Drag increases quadratic, so imagine what happens when you triple or quadruple that speed. Most aerodynamic improvements on the newer train models weren't at the nose but especially at the roof and bottom sections. In fact the nose is just a small portion of a trains total drag. The major reason for reshaping nose sections is in fact reducing tunnel boom.

By simply reshaping the rear of the power car to align better that will improve aerodynamics and therefor reduce power consumption, but also exterior noise every time the train runs at a significant speed. Even the most curved track in the world usually still has more straight sections then curves.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 03:54 AM   #6911
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So I learned that the railroads in the UK and throughout a lot of the world are owned by the government. In the US, private companies (CSX, NS, UP, etc) obviously own them.

There are obviously issues with this when it comes to operating a national railroad service, but my question is, why didn't we establish a public railroad network like we did with our interstate highways?

I doubt this can happen today, as any idea of a government-owned railroad would be slammed by some politicians as communism or something.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 04:04 AM   #6912
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Wouldn't that technically be Amtrak?
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Old October 15th, 2017, 04:41 AM   #6913
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$1.5B project to replace critical New Jersey rail bridge over Hackensack River starts
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Old October 15th, 2017, 04:51 AM   #6914
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Wouldn't that technically be Amtrak?
Amtrak shares/leases (I think) the tracks, they don't own them at all.

UK government owns their tracks.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 06:00 AM   #6915
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Amtrak shares/leases (I think) the tracks, they don't own them at all.

UK government owns their tracks.
The only track which Amtrak does own is the rail along the Northeast Corridor--the busiest and best-served stretch of rail in the U.S. There might be others, but that's the only one I know of for certain, and I do know for sure that there aren't many others.

To my knowledge, railways built by governments are not something which have ever been very common in the Anglosphere world.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 07:41 AM   #6916
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So I learned that
There are obviously issues with this when it comes to operating a national railroad service, but my question is, why didn't we establish a public railroad network like we did with our interstate highways?
The investment in the interstate highway system was pushed for by auto and gas lobbies along with the critical endorsement of Eisenhower. There was no equivalent push for a national rail system since the railway companies were perhaps though to be adequate to the task of maintaining the tracks.
If more and more high speed rail line get built and if they get built with some assistance from the Federal govt then the US might get a public railroad network. Moreover AFAIK the railways are classified as utilities by the federal govt. So the railway co.s may be facing a higher level of scrutiny and restriction with respect to using their right of way.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 09:01 AM   #6917
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I see, it's just a different system. The UK really is an anomaly then as it appears (at least from Google Earth) that trains are nearly as accessible as big city busses are in the US. Even if you live in the middle of nowhere your town will have a station.

On the contrary, their freeway network seems small in comparison. Like you said, when the oil and gas lobby is backing this stuff then it happens, which is why our road network is so robust and street cars that used to run on every street in Buffalo are nonexistent.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #6918
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:07 PM   #6919
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TL;DR, it was not really the result of any lobbies nor any “love affair” with cars. Those private railroads were just poorly managed and were in no position to expand into the new towns/cities that were popping up at the periphery of established urban centers (in the process, sucking resources away from those urban centers, which hurt establish travel markets) in the several decades after WWII, when the country first began building suburbs.

There was no coherent planning body to coordinate infrastructure and service, which might have happened if we’d used anti-trust laws to alter regulations of the industry - or just nationalize it - during the 30s-40s-50s. Else, the RRs might have consolidated but were in no position to, given their finances: Passener service became a loss leader once ridership plateaued, while the infrastructure itself remained a valuable asset; hence, reorientation towards freight.

Most towns are near railroads, in this country, whether the lines are active or not. They’re everywhere.

The easiest shorthand, off-hand...
The UK:
Private RRs>Nationalization>Privitization of Service
The US:
Private RRs>Nationalization of Service>Ongoing attempts to build new, public infrastructure.
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I gather most railroads in the UK were in fact built by private companies (eg why London has so many damn termini; they didn’t want to cooperate, and it took the Metropolitan line being so useful/popular for them to begin doing so).

And this also happened in the US. They received favorable purchase options on land (sometimes were given it for free) and low-interest loans, I believe, in exchange that they would provide passenger service in perpetuity.

Turns out that operating railroads, especially for passenger services, is extremely capital intensive, and many of these companies operated with thin margins - or else, often in extrememe debt. By the time it became apparent that most of these railroads were collapsing, the types of hostile, government takeovers that might have occurred earlier on in the late-19th or early-20th C. were not going to be done in the [conservative] governments during the 70s-80s (also around the time when the Conservatives in the UK decided to privatize passenger services, if I’m not mistaken)...

Heck, most people seem to forget there was a short window during that decade in which the Federal government was making a commitment to Transit, promising matches of 80% - this is when the last wave of metro systems were planned/built in ATL, SF, MIA, LA). Reagan’s term(s) kinda screwed any chance of anything positive in that realm. Really had nothing to do with lobbies as much as ideology, the fact that most cities were becoming starkly non-white, and that suburbanites didn’t want to continue paying taxes to fund any services or infrastructure within these cities, but I digress...

Anyways, early plans did consider nationalizing infrastructure alongside service. In fact, what was first proposed by planners was a much more expansive system that was figured to be the bare minimum of what could be functionally relevenat. We’re lucky we got anything in the end, at all: The current network was literally designed to starve Amtrak and eventually allow it to wind down and die.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:13 PM   #6920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
If more and more high speed rail line get built and if they get built with some assistance from the Federal govt then the US might get a public railroad network. Moreover AFAIK the railways are classified as utilities by the federal govt. So the railway co.s may be facing a higher level of scrutiny and restriction with respect to using their right of way.
Well, 1) you’re right; they are utilities. However, they aren’t regulated properly as Common Carriers, which is why they don’t have to allow Amtrak to use their ROWs, if they think it would be too burdensome, don’t have to pay to maintain specific corridors up to specific standards for passenger services, etc.

2) It doesn’t really take building all new, publicly-funded ROWs to establish a national network: It already exists. Whether the infrastructure used to operate it is private- or publicly-owned is irrelevant. What needs to happen is alterations to the way RRs are regulated to privilege passenger services over freight (and accompanying increases in funding for improvements).
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