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Old October 17th, 2009, 03:36 PM   #821
gramercy
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acela averaging 130 mph? thats a laugh

the direct train from Paris to Marseille averages 210 kph and thats on a 700+ km dedicated line with 300-320 kph maximum speeds...
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Old October 17th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Yeah, but... this is a bit frustrating. The "French" solution to this problem would be to tell the NIMBIES of Connecticut that, "fine, then we draw a straight line from New Haven to Boston. You won't be bothered, but you won't be serviced by the new train either". (I don't need to speak in the subjunctive here: we have precisely that discussion about Marseille-Nice which might follow the Mediterrenean coast... or not.) I now understand that there USED to be a direct link from New Haven to Boston but that, some years ago, it was scrapped???
The problem in Connecticut is that any 'straight lines' pass directly through the most strongly NIMBY areas - that whole region is heavily populated with lots of 'old' money.



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Old October 18th, 2009, 12:03 AM   #823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
The Acela averages 130 mph on a Good Day 79 mph on a bad day.

South of NYC its 130 mph
NYC-CT its 100mph max due to Metro North Rules about speed and old bridges
Rhode Island-Mass its 130-155mph

so its not always 79, except during Rush Hour.
135Mph is the max speed south of NYC and for a lot of the time it runs a lot slower so the average speed cnt be 130Mph anyway...
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Old October 18th, 2009, 06:49 AM   #824
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its 110-120 Average , most days 130 max , once in a while 140

The NEC is very crowded Commuter corridor, was the Acela a mistake to launch? No , were just in the beginning of US High Speed , over the next 5 to 8 yrs will really see High Speed Rail in the US take off. you just need to wait everybody , as for the Noreast , High Speed Rail Connections , The ARC Project needs to be complete before they added anymore lines onto the NEC. Once thats done , you will see a Northeast / New England Rail / High Speed Rail Construction spike.

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Old October 18th, 2009, 11:10 AM   #825
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maybe you have a problem with the mathematical concept of average

according to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express

Quote:
150 mph (240 km/h) maximum
70 mph (110 km/h) average
Quote:
With a top speed of 150 mph (241 km/h) the Acela Express is the only service in North America that exceeds the U.S. Department of Transportation's 125 mph (201 km/h) definition of high speed rail.[30] The Acela achieves an average speed of 80 mph (129 km/h) between Washington and New York, which is comparable to the Denver Zephyr service that ran at an average speed of 77 mph (124 km/h) between Chicago and Denver in the early 1960s. The highest speed attained by Acela Express is 150 mph (241 km/h) on two sections of track in Rhode Island and Massachusetts. There are also many miles of track, especially east of New Haven, that have been upgraded to allow maximum speeds in excess of 110 mph (177 km/h). South of New York, Acela Express is limited to 135 mph (217 km/h), even though several stretches of track there are straight enough to allow 150 mph (241 km/h) speeds. The limiting factor is stated to be the overhead catenary support system which was constructed prior to 1935 and lacks the constant-tension features of the new catenary east of New Haven, although in the late 1960s the Pennsylvania Railroad did run Metroliner test trains as fast as 164 mph (264 km/h) and briefly intended to run the Metroliner service at speeds reaching 150 mph (241 km/h). Although the Acela Express trainsets are capable of 165 mph (266 km/h) operation, FRA regulations do not permit any speeds above 150 mph (241 km/h) on tracks that are shared with freight and slower passenger trains regardless of circumstances, and for Acela Express trains to run above 150 mph (241 km/h) it would require purpose-built dedicated track in a separate right of way.
The slowest section of the electrified NEC is the portion owned by Metro-North Railroad and the Connecticut Department of Transportation between New Haven and New Rochelle. Trains here are limited to only 90 mph (145 km/h) on a 4 miles (6.4 km) stretch in New York State, and to 75 mph (121 km/h) between the New York state line and New Haven. Additionally, tilting is not allowed anywhere on Metro-North or ConnDOT (Connecticut Dept. of Transportation) property. At a maximum 4.2° tilt,[1] the Acela Express trainset would pass other trains on parallel tracks only 10 inches (25 cm) away, which is too close for FRA-mandated clearances. ConnDOT has a number of projects either planned or underway that will upgrade the catenary system,[31] replace outdated bridges, and straighten certain sections of the New Haven Line to eventually enable the Acela trains to run at their 150 mph (241 km/h) top speed.
The scheduled transit time for the 5:00 a.m. departure from Washington, D.C., (the quickest stopping pattern) to Boston's South Station on Acela Express service is roughly 6 hours 36 minutes. Allowing for the fifteen-minute scheduled layover in New York City, the average speed is 72 mph (116 km/h) for the 456 miles (734 km) trip. For the 225 miles (362 km) journey between Washington, D.C., and New York's Penn Station, the transit time is 2 hours 48 minutes, an average speed of 80 mph (129 km/h). If the infrastructure supporting the Acela were upgraded to allow for an average speed of 125 mph (201 km/h), the current 6.5 hour journey between Boston and Washington would be just under four hours and 45 minutes.
On July 9, 2007, Amtrak introduced two limited-stop trains. Train 2105 left New York Penn Station at 6:50 a.m, made only one stop, in Philadelphia, and arrived in Washington at 9:25 a.m. Northbound, train 2120 departed Washington at 3:55 p.m., stopped in Philadelphia, and arrived in New York at 6:30 p.m. This shortened the trip between the two cities to just 2 hours 35 minutes, making the trip roughly an hour faster than some of the Regional train services. These trains were an experiment on Amtrak's part to find ways to expedite travel time on the Acela despite the speed restrictions on certain parts of the line. Amtrak has since dropped these two limited-stop trains. In the Amtrak Northeast Corridor 1 train schedule effective August 4, 2008, trains 2105 and 2120 are not listed.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 03:28 PM   #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
its 110-120 Average , most days 130 max , once in a while 140


~Corey
No. As stated a few pages previously, a typical Acela service from Washington to New York (e.g the 12:00 from Washington) takes 2 hours 47 minutes to travel the approximately 225 miles, thats an average of 81 MPH (approximately) - so in accordance with the quoted 79 MPH.

Gramercy is correct, you need to understand what is meant by average. It is total distance divided by total time. Acela has the potential to achieve 130mph average times, but it requires an upgrade to the infrastructure it operates on.

To find out more, read this http://www.railwaygazette.com/filead...Survey2007.pdf

To quote from it, the fastest rail schedules in the USA between major cities are;

USA (240 km/h)
7 Acela Expresses between Baltimore and Wilmington, 110∙1km, 41 minutes, 161∙1 km/h (approx 100MPH)
15 Acela Expresses between Philadelphia and Wilmington, 50∙6km, 19 minutes, 159 km/h

Last edited by makita09; October 18th, 2009 at 03:38 PM.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 02:13 AM   #827
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Good ol' U.S.A.

The only way I can experience the railroad is it should be here in the States is by reading about it. For instance, no fewer than 6 main railroads ran through this area in Allentown, Pa. back in the 1940's. The bus and car took over all of it. Whatever remains was just too stubborn to die. Rail travel in the NorthEast is reduced to running the coast, and very little else. A country that was completely connected by rail is now talking about high-speed rail. What a very sad joke.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 09:09 AM   #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranieri View Post
The only way I can experience the railroad is it should be here in the States is by reading about it. For instance, no fewer than 6 main railroads ran through this area in Allentown, Pa. back in the 1940's. The bus and car took over all of it. Whatever remains was just too stubborn to die. Rail travel in the NorthEast is reduced to running the coast, and very little else. A country that was completely connected by rail is now talking about high-speed rail. What a very sad joke.
The joke is that by "high-speed rail" we are talking about speeds we were traveling at decades ago, but on a much smaller scale.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 11:29 AM   #829
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The joke is that by "high-speed rail" we are talking about speeds we were traveling at decades ago, but on a much smaller scale.
well if it makes you feel a bit better: 100 years ago we had steam trains going on a single track with manual signage at 140 kph....today we are talking about refurbishing the tracks to......paramparampararararampapmapm: 120 kph
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 05:09 PM   #830
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This Is Jersey Ave Station in New Brunswick,NJ : North East Corridor .

NJ Transit uses outer Tracks : Amtrak uses inner for High Speed


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2I37AXCHw
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 08:28 PM   #831
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Nexis, I think you've proven a point from your previous posting: exactly how crowded the line is. It looks to me like they're taking the Acela through the bottleneck first, followed by a couple of slower trains on its tail? In mixed traffic that makes sense, of course, though I do have to note that all trains seem to have the same (slow) passthrough speed at the station. It is certainly not like the TGVs running through Avignon at 300 km/h, and not even like the Eurostarts running through Lille at 200 km/h. The Acelas are... well, passing the station like any other train.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 08:35 PM   #832
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Nexis, I think you've proven a point from your previous posting: exactly how crowded the line is. It looks to me like they're taking the Acela through the bottleneck first, followed by a couple of slower trains on its tail? In mixed traffic that makes sense, of course, though I do have to note that all trains seem to have the same (slow) passthrough speed at the station. It is certainly not like the TGVs running through Avignon at 300 km/h, and not even like the Eurostarts running through Lille at 200 km/h. The Acelas are... well, passing the station like any other train.
I'm not sure but I think Avignon is 320kph
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:37 PM   #833
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They need to ditch the mismatched coaches and 'backward' running trains...
Its just a case of getting what it 'ok' sorted before they move onto new things...

Not an example of high speed, but these trains are all fully matched up properly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpV5Ug32qkU
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 11:03 PM   #834
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Another video form the Northeast Corridor

Station : Hamilton / Trenton

uses : Outer Tracks NJ Transit / Inner Amtrak High speed Line


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9iGuUe8txk
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Old November 14th, 2009, 02:11 PM   #835
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ALP-46a locomotive.

Here it is:


http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1000001&lang=1

It has finally arrived off the assembly line!! I cannot wait to be in a train pulled by one of these! The multilevel coaches are rated to 110 mph, so it should cut travel time by at least 15 minutes between new york and trenton. The next round of coaches should be upgraded to 125 mph rating, but that won't be for several years. When that happens, The 5:01 PM super express from NYP will finally take under an hour to get to trenton, a monumental feat by a state (new jersey) run transit system!!!



Yes, it's really that big of an event.

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Old November 15th, 2009, 12:25 AM   #836
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Yay for German locomotives!
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Old November 15th, 2009, 02:08 AM   #837
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Brilliant Locomotive.
I would like to know more about the State run New Jersy System.
Is there a thread within this forum somewhere?
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Old November 16th, 2009, 12:32 AM   #838
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Brilliant Locomotive.
I would like to know more about the State run New Jersy System.
Is there a thread within this forum somewhere?
Not sure, but there is one here:

Rail: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/foru...splay.php?f=19

Bus: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/foru...splay.php?f=95

Very cool site, i was a mod & very nice forum little drama, just lots of questions answers videos and photos (and a lot more!!!).

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Old November 28th, 2009, 12:14 PM   #839
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Many thanks, but... this almost raises more questions than it answers. I mean, surely totally new railway stations have to be either underground or in the suburbs??? Otherwise, what are they going to do? Knock down 50,000 residential dwellings in order to create a new railway corridor into the heart of town? Or build 20 km of elevated tracks through each town, giving thousands of residents a HSR next to their bedroom window?
How do you think they built the freeways?

A freeway takes a lot more space than a rail corridor.

There has been little talk in this thread of the high speed rail initiatives in the midwest. Of course it has all been mostly talk here unlike in California, but I daresay the midwestern states also tend to be a tad more timely and more efficient in these matters as well :P

High speed corridors have been designated by the federal government in a hub and spoke system based out of Chicago. Ultimately, they'd like to see the main lines operate at a max of 220mph (355km/h) with regional lines operating from 110mph to 150mph and smaller local lines at the current 79mph.

In addition to Hiawatha service from Chicago to Milwaukee, the current Empire Builder route would be upgraded to the Twin Cities. Even with minimal track improvements, they could up the speeds to 110mph and shave 2 and a half hours off the trip time between the Twin Cities and Chicago, making it superior to driving and somewhat competitive with flying (at least when price is a big factor).

In Minnesota, true high speed service will likely operate from the Twin Cities through a new corridor through Rochester, serving the Mayo Clinic, and then following the pre-established routes at top speeds of 220mph.

In addition, "regional high speed" service to 110mph would be offered from the Twin Cities to Duluth with the current slow service Empire Builder Route being offered beyond the Twin Cities to Fargo and Grand Forks.

Twin Cities to Duluth rail service, called the "Gopher" route, was discontinued in 1985 because of low demand... mostly caused by poor trackage and a speed limit of 50mph!!

But these days the freight railroads are doing much better and they have improved their trackage greatly... now we have 2 mile long trains barreling by at 70mph.. pretty amazing.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #840
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Sure, but in these climate-conference times there is a consensus building in most countries (perhaps not the US?) that collective traffic should increase and (polluding) car traffic should diminish over the next 10-20 years.

I'll grant you in the case of North America it's not obvious that this can be done through a handful of flashy new highspeed railways lines. This has worked in a few European countries plus Japan BECAUSE these countries have an extremely tightly knit subway architecture in all their major cities. Hence, once you arrive to Paris/Tokyo/Madrid/whatever by bullet train you walk down one flight of stairs and take the "metro" straight to the doorstep of your destination. In the United States, I believe, only NY and the Windy City have that kind of density in their urban public transport networks? Anyway, I personally would hate arriving to, say, Los Angeles by highspeed train and... then stand there like an idiot. Almost anywhere I go within the LA agglomeration I'd need a car.
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