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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 31st, 2010, 12:05 PM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
Also, there's of course no debate about this line. It's being built, as in right now. First preliminary work started last year rebuilding the future link of this line into Frankfurt Airport.
Which is good news for me, as I often travel on the Basel - Mannheim - Frankfurt - Köln route.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 07:11 PM   #1342
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Back to high-speed rail in the US.

2 interesting things I came across while reading this blog. (note: I give this blog some credence because the author displays quite a bit of indept knowledge on the subject)
1) It seems to be all but decided that CAHSR will use ERTMS as its train protection system. (see here). While not really shocking or suprising news, I do think it is good news.
2) Included in a post describing (and damning) the San Fransisco Transbay Terminal project, is this sentence:
'The minimum curve radius is just 500 feet (150 m), the sharpest allowable radius for European off-the-shelf trains, and too sharp for some Japanese high speed trains.'
Seems quite likely we'll see European HSTs running in California. I like
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Old April 4th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #1343
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It will be interesting to see if the politicians get their way and refuse to sell the bonds voters approved for the CAHSR system. There are just so many NIMBY's attacking it right now that things look bleak.
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Old April 4th, 2010, 07:52 PM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chafford1 View Post
Documents can be found at:

http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/31

This is revolutionary for the USA and all credit to Obama!
I just noticed this thread now. The link above has the image I've pasted below under Chronology of HSR corridors. (You can zoom in if you view it on the fra.dot.gov website).

Anyway, without giving it any deeper thinking, I like some of those routes shown and I think that the idea is there. Building HSR in a country the size of the US would indeed have to be on corridors linking only certain cities like some of those shown on the map below. Afterall, even in Western Europe and parts of Asia HSR is only present between certain cities and those countries with many HSR corridors today like Germany and France began with 1 or 2 corridors first before moving forward with more corridors.

I look forward to one linking LA with San Francisco and eventually connecting San Diego too. Of course, the East Coast already has some sort of head-start with its much more rail-oriented infrustructure and mentality but I'm sure there is room for improvements.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 01:27 AM   #1345
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Ding ding ding...we have a winner.
? 1 lack of governance = 1 winner ?
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:29 AM   #1346
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Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
? 1 lack of governance = 1 winner ?
If I understand your question correctly maybe I can answer it to a minor extent.

FlyFish said "we have a winner" because they believe that Suburbanist gave the correct answer as to why the US is so behind, not because lack of political will leads to a winning situation. That said, many people believe that a lack of governance as you put it in many respects (smaller government, less spending hence less taxes) is a winning situation, I am not one of them but there are many and they believe that high speed rail is a waste and the government should have nothing to do with it. I think the private sector doesn't have the balls to do it so why not let the government because I see a demand.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #1347
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? 1 lack of governance = 1 winner ?
Ditto above. I think Suburbanist gave the correct answer. Politically speaking in the US, if there is money to be sopent on infrastructure, the general political will dictates that t be spent improving what we use, not building something we don't use. Especially after the disasterous health care debate where the Feds pushed something through in such an ugly manner that now half the states are going to court against them the will for a major new and unfunded program just is not there.

There has been a lot of discussion here about how the Gov't built all these highways way back when and such. That's true, it was done, the highways exist and other than about .01% of the mileage in the nation they are sufficient. (You will disagree of course if your morning commute has you on that .01%). The air traffic system here is also pretty sufficient. It's getting overcrowded in certain corridors but it is generally sufficient. Our Government has and continues to spend us into bankruptcy. There is no money for a new and improved transportation system, there just isn't.

Yes, all you "tax the rich" fans, I guess you could do that but if history is a guide they'd still spend 20% more than they take in and just hasten the financial collapse of the country.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 06:49 AM   #1348
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http://www.officialwire.com/main.php...24932&catid=60

Poll: Half Of U.S. Backs High-Speed Rail

Quote:
About half of U.S. residents support President Barack Obama's plan to develop high-speed rail corridors, a poll released Tuesday indicated.

The Canadian polling company, Angus Reid Public Opinion, found 49 percent of those surveyed said they support high-speed rail. About one-third, 32 percent, said they would use the service rather than driving or taking a plane.

One-quarter of respondents, 26 percent, said they oppose building high-speed rail corridors.

Respondents were shown a map of proposed routes, which cover much of the country except the Plains and mountain states of the West. Obama has proposed high-speed rail in California and linking Portland, Ore., Seattle and Vancouver in Canada.

Democrats were twice as likely as Republicans -- 70 percent to 34 percent -- to support high-speed rail. Among independents, 44 percent support high-speed rail and 35 percent oppose it.

While 44 percent of Democrats would use high-speed rail, only 24 percent of Republicans and 30 percent of independents said they would.

Angus Reid surveyed 1,005 adults online March 31 and April 1. The margin of error is 3.1 percent either way.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 07:52 AM   #1349
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China Offers High Speed Rail to California

BEIJING — Nearly 150 years after American railroads brought in thousands of Chinese laborers to build rail lines across the West, China is poised once again to play a role in American rail construction. But this time, it would be an entirely different role: supplying the technology, equipment and engineers to build high-speed rail lines.

The Chinese government has signed cooperation agreements with the State of California and General Electric to help build such lines. The agreements, both of which are preliminary, show China’s desire to become a big exporter and licensor of bullet trains traveling 215 miles an hour, an environmentally friendly technology in which China has raced past the United States in the last few years.

“We are the most advanced in many fields, and we are willing to share with the United States,” Zheng Jian, the chief planner and director of high-speed rail at China’s railway ministry, said.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California has closely followed progress in the discussions with China and hopes to come here later this year for talks with rail ministry officials, said David Crane, the governor’s special adviser for jobs and economic growth, and a board member of the California High Speed Rail Authority.

China is offering not just to build a railroad in California but also to help finance its construction, and Chinese officials have already been shuttling between Beijing and Sacramento to make presentations, Mr. Crane said in a telephone interview.

China is not the only country interested in selling high-speed rail equipment to the United States. Japan, Germany, South Korea, Spain, France and Italy have also approached California’s High Speed Rail Authority.

The agency has made no decisions on whose technology to choose. But Mr. Crane said that there were no apparent weaknesses in the Chinese offer, and that Governor Schwarzenegger particularly wanted to visit China this year for high-speed rail discussions.

Even if an agreement is reached for China to build and help bankroll a high-speed rail system in California, considerable obstacles would remain.

China’s rail ministry would face independent labor unions and democratically elected politicians, neither of which it has to deal with at home. The United States also has labor and immigration laws stricter than those in China.

In a nearly two-hour interview at the rail ministry’s monolithic headquarters here, Mr. Zheng said repeatedly that any Chinese bid would comply with all American laws and regulations.

China’s rail ministry has an international reputation for speed and low costs, and is opening 1,200 miles of high-speed rail routes this year alone. China is moving rapidly to connect almost all of its own provincial capitals with bullet trains.

But while the ministry has brought costs down through enormous economies of scale, “buy American” pressures could make it hard for China to export the necessary equipment to the United States.

The railways ministry has concluded a framework agreement to license its technology to G.E., which is a world leader in diesel locomotives but has little experience with the electric locomotives needed for high speeds.

According to G.E., the agreement calls for at least 80 percent of the components of any locomotives and system control gear to come from American suppliers, and labor-intensive final assembly would be done in the United States for the American market. China would license its technology and supply engineers as well as up to 20 percent of the components.

State-owned Chinese equipment manufacturers initially licensed many of their designs over the last decade from Japan, Germany and France. While Chinese companies have gone on to make many changes and innovations, Japanese executives in particular have grumbled that Chinese technology resembles theirs, raising the possibility of legal challenges if any patents have been violated.

All of the technology would be Chinese, Mr. Zheng said.

China has already begun building high-speed rail routes in Turkey, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. It is looking for opportunities in seven other countries, notably a route sought by the Brazilian government between São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, Mr. Zheng said.

International rail experts say that China has mastered the art of building high-speed rail lines quickly and inexpensively.

“These guys are engineering driven — they know how to build fast, build cheaply and do a good job,” said John Scales, the lead transport specialist in the Beijing office of the World Bank.

The California rail authority plans to spend $43 billion to build a 465-mile route from San Francisco to Los Angeles and on to Anaheim that is supposed to open in 2020. The authority was awarded $2.25 billion in January in federal economic stimulus money to work on the project.

The authority’s plans call for $10 billion to $12 billion in private financing. Mr. Crane said China could provide much of that, with federal, state and local jurisdictions providing the rest. Mr. Zheng declined to discuss financial details.

China’s mostly state-controlled banks had few losses during the global financial crisis and are awash with cash now because of tight regulation and a fast-growing economy. The Chinese government is also becoming disenchanted with bonds and looking to diversify its $2.4 trillion in foreign reserves by investing in areas like natural resources and overseas rail projects.

“They’ve got a lot of capital, and they’re willing to provide a lot of capital” for a California high-speed rail system, Mr. Crane said.

Later plans call for the California line to be extended to Sacramento and San Diego, while a private consortium hopes to build a separate route from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.

Toyota is shutting a big assembly plant in Fremont, Calif., that it once operated as a joint venture with General Motors, and one idea under discussion is converting the factory to the assembly of high-speed rail equipment, said Mr. Crane, who is also a member of the state’s Economic Development Commission.

Rail parts from China would then come through the nearby port of Oakland, in place of auto parts from Japan.

“High-speed rail requires a lot of high technology — we would send many high-end engineers and high-end technicians” to California, Mr. Zheng said.

G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the next five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more ambitious infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the next three years on overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly high-speed routes, according to G.E.

China’s long-term vision calls for high-speed rail routes linking Shanghai to Singapore and New Delhi by way of Myanmar, and someday connecting Beijing and Shanghai to Moscow to the northwest and through Tehran to Prague and Berlin, according to a map that Mr. Zheng keeps on a bookshelf behind his desk. He cautioned that there were no plans to start construction yet outside China.

A high-speed rail link for passengers from Beijing to Shanghai will be finished by the end of 2011 or early 2012, and cut the journey to four hours, from 10 hours now, Mr. Zheng said.

New York to Atlanta or Chicago is a similar distance, and takes 18 to 19 hours on Amtrak, which must share tracks with 12,000-ton freight trains and many commuter trains.

For the American market, Mr. Zheng said, “we can provide whatever services are needed.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/bu...8rail.html?hpw
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Old April 8th, 2010, 07:26 PM   #1350
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how long before the so called patroits begin to swing around anti-China bashies?
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Old April 12th, 2010, 05:03 PM   #1351
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So when will they be operating along the Northeast Corridor?
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Old April 12th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #1352
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All hands salute those europeans and their STATE RUN passenger train companies ...



too bad such things don't exist in all mighty american rails.


pHun (un)intended.


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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Yay for German locomotives!

since when is Bombardier a German company ???



Long live the canuck corporations with their 3rd world factories (namely in germany)
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Old April 13th, 2010, 02:02 PM   #1353
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The ALP 46 is a variation of the German DB Type 101 which was developed by German ADtranz before the aquisition by Bombardier. Bombardier Transportation is based in Berlin, btw. So yes, German locomotive.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #1354
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To be more precise, these loco's are developed and built at Bombardier's site in Kassel, Germany. This is the former Henschel site producing locomotives since 1848 and electric locomotives since 1910, more then 34,000 in total.

Bombardier just bought up a lot of European companies to get into the European market and were smart enough not to interfere to much with the technology. They just reorganized in such a way that every site specialized in what they already did best.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #1355
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The Palo Alto Daily Post has laid out what will be the foundation of their plan to try and stop High Speed Rail in California.

Quote:
Letters won’t stop the rail

If you want to stop high-speed rail, you have been told to spend the next month flooding Sacramento with e-mails and letters. The more letters we send, the greater the chance we will stop this train. Or so we are told.

Go ahead and write, if it makes you feel better. But our legislators and officials at the California High Speed Rail Authority are not going to read your letters. They’re going to hire a PR person to skim them over and provide a canned response. Your letters aren’t going to stop the powerful backers of this railroad (labor, engineering firms, land developers) from gutting the heart of Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Atherton, Redwood City, San Mateo and Burlingame with a monster wider, louder and uglier than Caltrain.

Instead of writing letters, let’s take some serious steps to stop high-speed rail.

Go back to the ballot

Put the question back on the statewide ballot. A signature- gathering effort will cost about $500,000, and the election campaign could cost millions more. So this won’t be easy.

The campaign would have two themes:

*High-speed rail, at a cost of $43 billion, will take needed state funds away from other more important things like police, firefighting and schools.

*The public wasn’t told all of the facts about the rail before the 2008 election, and many of the “facts” at the time were greatly exaggerated, such as the projected ridership.

Bring out the lawyers

The Palo Alto area has some of the world’s top lawyers and Stanford’s law school. We need to form an all-star legal dream team of hundreds of lawyers working on a pro bono basis to stand up to the army of lawyers the state has to push this project down our throats. These lawyers could be:
*Suing over every aspect of this project, and constantly demanding restraining orders and injunctions. The more litigating we do, the more likely we can stop this project in the courts. Environmental groups know how to do this better than anyone – let’s see if they’ll help us?

*Going to bat for homeowners whose property the rail authority intends to seize through eminent domain. It’s important to act fast because once the state has decided to take a property, it’s gone, and the only issue at that point is how much money the homeowner will get.

Threaten their jobs

Let’s create a political action committee to raise money and defeat legislators who back this project. Knocking off one or two pro-train or “done right” lawmakers will have more impact than a million letters and e-mails.

Legislators and the rail authority don’t care how many letter we write. It’s a big joke to them. That’s why they’re telling us to write. It will distract us as they push their project through. But they will care if their jobs are threatened. Let’s hit them where it hurts.
It will be interesting to see how well these idiots do.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #1356
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Originally Posted by Basincreek View Post
The Palo Alto Daily Post has laid out what will be the foundation of their plan to try and stop High Speed Rail in California.



It will be interesting to see how well these idiots do.
Prey that an Earthquake levels that town and the morons that live within it. Honestly , they are costing the project more, aren't they only town opposing it. What does the rest of Cali think about this?
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Old April 14th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #1357
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Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Prey that an Earthquake levels that town and the morons that live within it. Honestly , they are costing the project more, aren't they only town opposing it. What does the rest of Cali think about this?
They appear to lead a group of towns on the Peninsula (Palo Alto, Belmont, Menlo Park, Atherton and Burlingame). I'm pissed about it but I'm speaking for myself. These guys are smack between San Jose and SF who both appear to be all for the system in general but probably will have to iron out details. This is the biggest hurdle for sure and the cities are amassing cash for legal battles when they should use it to get the tunnels they so desperately want.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #1358
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Californians already voted for this project. This town needs to let it go and shallow their 60's style attitudes.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 02:21 AM   #1359
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What's really weird is all their worries are pretty much unfounded. They think the high speed train is going to crash property values when there is absolutely no precedence for that world wide. They think the train will be very noisy when it really will be quieter than what they have now. They think having a station will bring in all sorts of crime and "undesirables." Which I'm pretty sure is code for non-white people.

Okay so it might allow non-white people to move in more but that shouldn't be a problem unless you're racist like the people of Palo Alto.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 04:14 AM   #1360
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Well, if you look some of the official videos and renders from the California HSR, it proposes radical transformation (to the worse sometimes) in the immediate vicinity of some stations, with too much construction and density for the usual patterns in Central California.
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